my thamnophis fish and terrarium

[De Foezel]

this is my sneeky thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis/radix cross(brown yellow)
and my friends thamnohis sirtalis concinnus(red black)
and the fish i keep in the same terrarium

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/SANY0111.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/SANY0119.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/SANY0120.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/SANY0127.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/thamnophis2.jpg

i used willow branches because they will often continu growing that way ill get live flora in my terrarium
hope u like it :D
greets richard

[gregmonsta]

It's a nice set up. I hope it continues to work well for you (bacteria can be a problem in large waterbodied set ups). Are the species in the tank separated according to sex?

[De Foezel]

i dont exectly know what u mean
but my fish continu to live so i think its ok
i also have 1 good filter in the water and 1 pump for a waterfall
so its not stagnent water
and my snake like the water it seems
though he escaped once now:eek:

[Snakers]

In my opinion i think it looks cool but not enough land for the snakes

[De Foezel]

it just the smallest snake in the pictures the other one is my friends
he took it here to see if it would hunt
but youre right its not much land
but im going to change that in the form of a homemade waterfall
an some new shelves
grtz richard

[De Foezel]

but about the bacteria
will they effect the fish or the snake??:confused:

[gregmonsta]

The problem I refer to relates to cryptosporidia which can be a problem and has destroyed peoples entire collections in the past. Any large waterbody like this is very difficult to keep sanitary.

[De Foezel]

but if i clean out the water 1/3 per week its ok right?
im planning te clean it regular (each sunday)
i also have shrimp that clean the alge out of the water and alge eating fishes

[DIRK]

How high is humidity you because?
Excessive humidity can cause skin diseases of animals. In conjunction with cold weather can occur quickly to respiratory diseases. The water content is too large and the country part too small. The bacteria in water can also cause diseases of animals

[De Foezel]

its always pretty humid but its also always pretty hot 20Celsius or higher
i have some rocks in the terrarium and they apaer very dry
in the morning there is some condensation on the glas but its gone i about 45 minutes
i also put fishtamin in the water its supposed to enhance the waterquality
and some of the willow branches properties is that it wil make the water some bit cleaner and take fishpoop out of the water for nutrients

[ssssnakeluvr]

that's a nice set up....however the humidity will cause you snakes serious skin problems. also I see little area for the snakes to stay out of the water.

[De Foezel]

well its like he can hang in de decorative plants also so i think for now its ok but when he grows larger i realy should expand the land AREa
grtz

[Snakers]

hope you dont mind loosing fish either if those snakes ever get hungry who knows:eek:

[De Foezel]

thats the purpose of the fishys they are FOOD for when sneeky gets hungry in between meals of dead fish
i pray for the day a fish is missing
greets richard

[jitami]

I think it's really cool! If you can add more land area and keep the water filtered I'd go for it.... that said I don't have as much experience as these other guys :) Make sure the snake can dry off well when it needs to. Looks a lot like their natural habitat (minus some dirt). Is there any way you could add a shelf taking about half the tank with a lip so you could add some substrate. I'm thinking something that doesn't hold moisture like carefresh or maybe aspen?

[De Foezel]

thats a great idea
thnx
i was already planning on making a extra shelve but if there some kind of soil there the snake will like it more:cool:
it will be easy i can just bolt a shelve under one of the excisting shelves
i think it will be the right corner shelve or the upper one which wil become larger i was thinking 1/3 of the terrarium in size.
but as always ill make several nice ideas on paper and choose the best with a friend of mine......
im starting that once i finished my waterfall(building one because "exo terra waterfalls" suck)
if u still got comments id love to hear them:D
btw i decided im going to clean 1/2 of the fishtank water each week
it a bummer i cant clean it all the way because the fish will die of poor waterqualitys
grtz and thnx for ur helps and concerns :):):):rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Your idea of a multiple tier environment is awesome and zoos often do this in a large enclosure. However, I also have concerns. While it's really nice to have a water/land habitat, I think it could spell disaster for the snakes and eventually for all the inhabitants. You just cannot contain an entire ecosystem in something that small. Snake feces are nasty and bacteria is a major concern. Snakes, even garter snakes found near water, need a dry, clean substrate.


Remember the BIOSPHERE projects? miserable failure.

Without going into details here's my opinion:

Get those snakes out of there and into a proper land enclosure made just for them. It will have a large water dish, plenty of dry ground, and a warm spot to bask under, and a cool end with some hiding places. Get some warm tolerant amphibians to live in the water tank. CA or rough-skinned newts would probably do well in there. The snakes don't belong there. Seriously. Get them out!

[De Foezel]

so if i understand correctly....
i need to adept my enclosure so there will be more land less water?
i could fill in half the tank with pebles so it will form land would this be ok?
i was planning to adept the enclosure with a expanding piece for 1 of the shelves that would cover 1/3 of the enclosure and a waterfall with some hidingplaces and some dry area to bask and rest for the snake

[ssssnakeluvr]

any of that would work, as long as you don't keep the snakes in it. they need drier cages with a water dish to prevent skin blisters and infections that could kill them. the humidity is going to be way too high for them.

[ConcinusMan]

A small water feature such as a pool with a little waterfall can work out OK in a very large enclosure if it's done right and has an all screen top, but those snakes need dry land and 50-70% humidity. Do not ever use pebbles as snake substrate. It harbors bacteria, is not absorbent and will result in blisters on the snakes bellies. Once they get it, it's hard to get rid of and can be fatal.

Please heed the advice and get those snakes on dry land before they get an infection. Florescent lighting, live plants and amphibians would be very cool in that setup. It's just not for snakes.

Might be a good idea to give the snakes a good thorough cleaning with Hibiclens or similar product containing chlorhexidine gluconate to prevent skin infections.

[De Foezel]

to my great dissappointment i bought a fishbowl for the fishys
and drained my terrarium i put berchwood chips on the floor an will make a small waterpool with a waterfall
to bad it looked so cool and natural
though i have noticed my snake caltming down alot and not being so scittish
thnx for al of your expert advices / compliments
and for caring enough to tell me what i did wrong

[ConcinusMan]

Hey, no problem. That's what we're here for. Thank you for caring enough about the snakes to correct the problem. Now when you get a chance, post pics of their new setup.

[De Foezel]

was planning on doing that but i dont have a smartcardreader so i do that at a friends house i think tomorow ill have some fotos here
its improvised decor because i dont have money growing on my back
but ill build some nice decor details:)
im disapointed but not discouraged;)
ive got some nice ideas for a epoxy with sand hill like structure with 1 or 2 little pools which will be easily cleanable that ill build outside of the enclosement en pop it in when its ready(so i dont realy freak out the snake too much)

[De Foezel]

i just own the thamnophis sirtalis sirtales and radix crossbreed
the Thamnophis sirtalis concinus is NOT MY snake but its my friends


could u please send [IMG] of your enclosure if it looks cool:confused: (for some extra inspiration:D)

[ConcinusMan]

I like to keep it simple. Needs to be easy to check on hiding snake and needs to be easy to spot clean without having to rip out tons of decor. I plan on adding one piece of drift wood though. Amy has found a new activity. She likes to climb the trees. If I had her in a 20 galloon I might get a little more elaborate and perhaps add a few live small plants.

10 gallon garter snake viv:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124832&postcount=6422

20 gallon with a 4 foot milk snake:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/386/gedc0908medium.jpg

Sorry it's a little blurry. My good photos in my gallery are all gone. Probably due to forum problems experienced a few weeks ago. This would probably look better with a natural looking water dish. Amy is so strong and destructive, I can't get too elaborate with her enclosure. The plant is a live spider plant and seems to tolerate her destructive nature. Because she likes to root around in the substrate, I don't put rocks or logs in there. I don't want her to get hurt.

[De Foezel]

oh ok i have my photo galery on photobucket.com upload photos there for free and theyl be safe for years to come:)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah. Photobucket. *gag*

If you don't know why I gagged, keep using it. You'll understand. Try imageshack when you figure out why photobucket is.. well... a bucket of...

Let's put it this way. I go in my yard and clean up dog poop. I put that in a bucket. I would never put my photos there.

[De Foezel]

i dont put personal photos online but only photos i want online
the rest i keep ofline ofcourse its free it works so why temper with it:P

[De Foezel]

here is my new set up :S
it doesnt look cool but if its good for the snake its better
have a box with holes in it and a vase and a glas rock
and some artificial shrubs
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/Foto318.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I'm not sure what you mean by it doesn't look cool.
I think it's great. Nice job.

[Snaky]

Well, both the enclosures look nice :)

Actually I know some people keeping the snakes in an enclosure with a lot of water. They have a filter and they refresh the complete water often, they don't keep fish in it though ( I also suspect that you can never keep fish long together with garters ). But they make sure that they have a also a nice and always dry area the snakes can lay on. Also they have very good ventilation.

I think you can still use your set-up ( larger water part ), but just need some small adjustments ( land part little bigger and very, very good ventilation without it becoming a draft ).

[jitami]

I love that you're willing to learn and make adjustments for the health and safety of your snake :)

Well done :)

btw... photobucket works fine for me, too...

[ConcinusMan]

It will for a while. Then they'll start putting ads where your hotlinked pics should be. They'll also limit your storage space/bandwidth if you're using the free version. Imageshack will never to that and it's always free.