HELP this is urgent...can minnows kill my new garter

[Dameco13]

I just purchased a baby garter snake yesterday from petco and they said they feed her minnows so i bought a dozen of minnows i fed her 3 today but now that i am looking around on the site i see that minnows have something to do with ????thiaminase???? I have no idea what it is but aparantly its a nutiance killing toxin or something. I want to know am i killing my snake and if earthworms are a better choice of food.
(P.s. I have already tried to persuade my mom to let me buy pinkies but she said no cause they are dead rats) please help me as soon as possible.

[Stefan-A]

Thiaminase i an enzyme that breaks down thiamine, also known as vitamin B1. Long term, it can cause fatal neurological problems. But fortunately, it's probably not that urgent.

Find another type of fish, if pinkies are out of the question. Trout, salmon, tilapia or guppies.

[brubru2]

If I were you, I would try a bit harder to get those pinkies. Pinkies are the healthiest garter food I know of, and once the garters adapt to their new food source, they learn to love it. However, there are other food sources available, but with most fish (i.e. talapia) I'm pretty sure you need to add an added calcium supplement.

P.S. What age range is your garter in? (baby, subabault, or adult)

[drache]

don't panic - a few minnows will not kill your garter
but it's a good idea to feed it something different as soon as you can
trout is good.
about the pinkies . . .
yes they're dead - that's the good part
is your mom a vegetarian? if not, there are many arguments for dead meat

[Dameco13]

its a baby female

[Dameco13]

No my mom is not a vegitarian she just doesnt like the idea of haveing frozen mice in her freezer.:(

oka so i know now that minnows are out of the food list for me.:eek:

What about earthworms?:confused:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Don't worry! A few minnows will not kill your snake instantly. If you can find guppies, they are great for your snake to eat. Also, you can use cut up pieces of salmon or trout as long as you sprinkle on some calcium powder. You could also mix in nightcrawlers for variety. It's not necessary to feed your garter snake rodents, as they are fish, frog and worm specialists in the wild anyways. Some larger garters have been shown to take rodents in the wild but rodents are not a garter staple in the wild and they don't need to be in captivity if you don't want them to be. They can be, but it's definitely not a requirement. Nature knows best and you can't better it!

If you can find silversides, I highly recommend using those. They are a long skinny silvery fish often sold at pet stores frozen, as food for fish. Snakes love them and they are safe for snakes to eat just as guppies, salmon, and trout are. My entire collection of garter snakes gets silversides as the main food, with mice and nightcrawlers and frog legs mixed in occasionally.

[Dameco13]

Don't worry! A few minnows will not kill your snake instantly. If you can find guppies, they are great for your snake to eat. Also, you can use cut up pieces of salmon or trout as long as you sprinkle on some calcium powder. You could also mix in nightcrawlers for variety. It's not necessary to feed your garter snake rodents, as they are fish, frog and worm specialists in the wild anyways. Some larger garters have been shown to take rodents in the wild but rodents are not a garter staple in the wild and they don't need to be in captivity if you don't want them to be. They can be, but it's definitely not a requirement. Nature knows best and you can't better it!

If you can find silversides, I highly recommend using those. They are a long skinny silvery fish often sold at pet stores frozen, as food for fish. Snakes love them and they are safe for snakes to eat just as guppies, salmon, and trout are. My entire collection of garter snakes gets silversides as the main food, with mice and nightcrawlers and frog legs mixed in occasionally.
i have 2 quesstions
1.Can you buy silversides at grocery stores?
2.Can earthworms be a primary food source?(i really need this to be)

anyone can answer

[ssssnakeluvr]

worms are mostly water....will pass thru quick and leave a big mess. if you feed only worms, you will need vitamin supplements weekly

[Dameco13]

so do they sell silversides in grocery stores?

[drache]

I've not seen silversides in grocery stores, but I think bait shops carry them
does your mom seriously prefer worms in the fridge to mice in the freezer?
trout is usually available at grocery stores, and a small one will last a long time

[jitami]

You probably won't find silversides at the grocery store... pet store or possibly bait store... but you can buy trout or salmon at the grocery store and cut them into thin strips for your garter. Buy a trout or salmon fillet, cut into many many worm sized strips, freeze on a cookie sheet and then put the leftover frozen strips in a ziploc bag and defrost a few as needed. The trout or salmon fillet may seem expensive, but will last one garter snake a very long time. As other's have said you should add some powdered calcium. You can find it at a pet store and you don't have to give it every time or even have it at all to start with, but it is important to get some eventually. Good luck with your new little one :)

[snakeman]

Your snake does'nt look female to me.A bigger pic would tell for sure.

[ConcinusMan]

The photo is so blurry, I can't even be sure of the species. Possibly Red-sided Thamnophis sirtalis? But yeah, judging from the body shape I'm leaning toward male too. I've been wrong before though. Hard to judge from a photo, especially when the snake is sub-adult. It very well could be female. Photo isn't clear enough.

No garters of any species can be found in pet stores here due to laws preventing "native" species from being sold in pet stores. That means no garters of any kind, even if the species isn't native to the State. Petco has eastern ribbon snakes here though.

I'm with everyone else here about the feeding. Don't worry about what the snake has already been fed. The disease takes time to show up and if you change the diet now, it's likely that no harm will come to the snake. Night crawlers are OK but like they said, they make for a very messy tank when they come out the other end. Try to vary the diet and use trout and salmon bits. I would give the calcium supplement about twice a month.

[Dameco13]

what about this one?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/dameco11/snake.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Still hiding the important part. A good clear picture of the last 1/3 of the snake, preferably bottom view would help us take a more accurate guess at the sex. Just let the last 1/3 hang and take a picture of the underside. It helps if it's not blurry. As far as what species of garter it is, I'm pretty sure it's a Thamnophis sirtalis. Specifically, a Red-sided garter like the ones found at the famous Narcisse snake dens in Canada found on this page: Narcisse Snake Dens Update Page! (http://www.naturenorth.com/spring/creature/garter/Narcisse_Snake_Dens.html)

[Dameco13]

oka heres the pichttp://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/dameco11/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo0387.jpg

i need to ask something else

I am about to start feeding my baby garter chopped up but i dont know because i really want to freeze them but i do not know if ill freeze them will they become unhealthy for my garter? I also would like to know about the deadly worm people r talking about? please?

[guidofatherof5]

oka ill have another picture comming but while im waiting i need to ask something else

I am about to start feeding my baby garter chopped up but i dont know because i really want to freeze them but i do not know if ill freeze them will they become unhealthy for my garter? I also would like to know about the deadly worm people r talking about? please?

This link will give you the best idea on a photo.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[ConcinusMan]

If you freeze any food, freeze it whole and date it. Vacuum sealing is best because it's air in the bag that causes freezer burn/ice crystals. Freezing will not affect the nutritional value. Just don't let it stay in there too long and don't let ice crystals form on it or let it get freezer burn.(typically causes drying/discoloration). Works fine for fish and pinkies but night crawlers (worms) will turn to mush so maybe not a good idea. If your garter doesn't mind dead food, chopping it up is fine since they are eating it because it smells good.

Just don't use small worms that are very red and have stripes on them like these:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vermicomposting-2.jpg

The best worms to use are night crawlers. They tend to be very large and look like this:
http://talkcharlotte.com/files/2008/12/nightcrawler1.jpg

Notice the flattened tail and lighter color at the tail. Bait shops that have both will call the bad ones "red wigglers" and the good ones will be called "night crawlers"

[Dameco13]

http://talkcharlotte.com/files/2008/12/nightcrawler1.jpg
(just had to see the pic)

__________________________________________________ _________
oka thanks but i need to know why my garter snake is not willing to eat mealworms the people at petco told me thats what they eat but i didnt beleive it but my mom bought they just in case

[ConcinusMan]

oka heres the pichttp://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/dameco11/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo0387.jpg



Tough call because it's blurry, but it just might be female after all.

I must say I'm glad you're asking so many questions and that you have all the fine people here who know what they're talking about to answer them.

[Dameco13]

yea im trying to figure out what yo feed him/her my mom wont go for pinkies minnows will kill it earthworms will make him poop all day and silversides are too hard for me to come by.i tried mealworms he refuses i think im just gonna have to go with the nightcrawler worms

[guidofatherof5]

Garters don't eat bugs. They can't digest the exoskeleton.
Here's a link to the care sheet. It's full of great updated(thanks Shannon) material.

http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet

[ConcinusMan]

Well it sounds like you're in a bit of a pickle. If your snake likes fish, it would likely eat any fish. I'm sure your mom wouldn't mind if you bought a trout fillet and put it in the freezer.(mark it "for the snake" so nobody eats it) Just feed her bits of that with a calcium supplement sprinkled on lightly, every other feeding and your snake should be OK.

[Dameco13]

What about canned pink salmon?

[ConcinusMan]

What about canned pink salmon?

Salmon is OK but It's rich and fatty. I wouldn't feed it every feeding, only as a treat now and then. Also, the canned stuff is cooked and salt is added. Use fresh. Fresh raw fish only.

[Dameco13]

okay thanks ill just go with nightcrawlers and if i can find them, silversides

[ConcinusMan]

Even if you can't, just about any store carries fillet of trout. That would be a good choice. Might want to see what fish are available at your grocery store and get back to us to see if it's a safe fish. Either way, if you're only feeding pieces of fish meat and/or nightcrawlers don't forget the calcium powder with vitamin D. A growing young snake needs that for healthy bones and scales.

[Dameco13]

hold up wait a minute(lol) nobody ever said anything to me about calcium?

[gregmonsta]

hold up wait a minute(lol) nobody ever said anything to me about calcium?

Calcium is essential if you are feeding worms and fish fillet as you are not providing the calcium you would be presenting in the bones feeding whole fish for example (worms don't have bones .... so no calcium).

[Dameco13]

dang where do i buy calcium

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Nightcrawlers are made up of mostly water, but so is fish. There is more than one subspecies of garter snakes that are earthworm specialists and will feed just about exclusively on earthworms. I do not agree with the rumors that night crawlers are void of nutrition. Worms choose nutrient rich soils and decaying plant matter as their food. Meaning they are packing lots of nutrients into themselves even while swallowing soil. I would still supplement with vitamins and calcium on occasion, but every feeding would be overkill. I can get silversides at the grocery store by me, but most don't carry them.

[guidofatherof5]

Nightcrawlers are made up of mostly water, but so is fish. There is more than one subspecies of garter snakes that are earthworm specialists and will feed just about exclusively on earthworms. I do not agree with the rumors that night crawlers are void of nutrition. Worms choose nutrient rich soils and decaying plant matter as their food. Meaning they are packing lots of nutrients into themselves even while swallowing soil. I would still supplement with vitamins and calcium on occasion, but every feeding would be overkill. I can get silversides at the grocery store by me, but most don't carry them.

Shannon, I agree with you about night crawlers.
The radixes in my area feed almost exclusively on them and are very healthy and grow large.
They may be mostly water but what's left must be very good for them to eat. Here at the ranch I feed 60% night crawlers and my snakes seem to be thriving very well.

[guidofatherof5]

dang where do i buy calcium

Here's the brand I use. I don't know about any other brands.
Repcal rep-cal ultrafine 4.1 oz rep-cal ultrafine fine grind is an excellent source of calcium for a : SRP00200 - Buy.com (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211940980&listingid=66986891)

[Dameco13]

so steve(if i may call you that) can i do the nightcrawlers with out the calcium stuff because i live 21 miles from a petco and unless they sell it at dollar general or walmart i wont be getting any until at least 0-2 weeks

[guidofatherof5]

so steve(if i may call you that) can i do the nightcrawlers with out the calcium stuff because i live 21 miles from a petco and unless they sell it at dollar general or walmart i wont be getting any until at least 0-2 weeks

Waiting that amount of time shouldn't cause any problems. I've never seen it at either of those stores.
If you want, PM me you name and address and I'll send you some in the mail. I've got plenty.

[Dameco13]

Guys hi again I have another question last night i was scrolling in walmart and i saw a completely clear sterillite storage container thing with locking handles for $6.50 This is my current one:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/dameco11/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo0390.jpg
it is small and the items inside are very close together but the sterillite container i saw was longer and a lot taller but i didnt buy it because i wanted you guy's opinion but if i get the sterillite i will clean it and stuff and put a lot of air holes and the whole enchalada lol but what are your opinions?

[Dameco13]

oh yea and can i have some tips on how to make the holes?

[brubru2]

Do you own a power drill with a drill piece small enough to make holes too small for a garter to get out?:confused:

[Dameco13]

no dont own a power drill but my brother in law does and i can probley ask him but any other ways?

[brubru2]

Um, not that I can think of. Wait until tomorrow when the experts (like guidofatherof5, or one of the others) is on they might have a better sollution.
Sorry.:(

[Dameco13]

okay thanks and yea that would be best bye all

[Stefan-A]

oh yea and can i have some tips on how to make the holes?
Cut out a large hole, cover it with a piece of perforated aluminium plate slightly larger than the hole and fasten it either with screws or with a suitable glue (I consider screws far more secure).

Alternatively, cut out a large hole, take a sheet of plastic slightly larger than the hole, cut out a hole the same size as the one in the tub, put a suitable size piece of plastic mesh between the two and screw the whole thing together.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/ahole2.jpg

[drache]

what Stefan did is the best solution for adequate ventilation
definitely do not think of hot glue as permanent - screening glued on with that stuff always comes loose sooner than you think
another possibility, if you have some patience and a well ventilated work area, is to use an appropriately sized nail that's heated over a flame, and pliers with an insulated handle, to melt holes right through the plastic

[Dameco13]

stefan- i dont want to have to spend anymore money my mom will get ticked but good idea
drache- thats a good idea i may go with that one

[mustang]

i use bought a screen lid.....put a type of foam inbetween lid and cage .....snakes ALWAYS find a way to get out!

[Stefan-A]

stefan- i dont want to have to spend anymore money my mom will get ticked but good idea
drache- thats a good idea i may go with that one
It cost me about as much as a week-old mouse.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

if you own a soudering iron, that works great for melting holes into plastic tubs. It goes right through the plastic smooth as butter.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I just drill holes in mine.....

[drache]

either way - remember that it takes a lot of holes to get decent ventilation

[Mommy2many]

Another quick, cheap way to make holes would be a nail & a hammer. You should be able to punch holes into the lid with the nail, just large enough to ventilate but not large enough for your snake to escape.

Welcome to the forum! The nightcrawlers can be found at Walmart, most of the snakes will eat those. You may have to cut them up if your snake is a baby. The fish from the supermarket is also a good idea, salmon, tilapia or trout. All of mine will eat salmon. I have never tried the silversides, so I'll have to try that next time. Silversides can be found at Petco. Mine also love the occasional live fish, so if you can find guppies, they work best.

Good luck with your new friend. What have you named her?

[Dameco13]

yea see thats one of my problems we dont know if its a she/he i think its a she but i could be wrong i compared it to some sexing pics and think its a girl

[ConcinusMan]

I found that it's tough to sex by one pic alone, especially a blurry one. The whole point was to compare the thickness of the snake just prior to, and just after the cloaca. Hard to do when it's blurry. Generally speaking, if the snake gets significantly thinner immediately after the cloaca, a good guess would be female. If the tail doesn't get significantly thinner, or is slightly bulged immediately after the cloaca, a good guess would be male. Also...

When comparing a known male to a known female of the same garter species, the male generally has more distance between the cloaca and the tail tip since the tail thins gradually.(leaving room for the hemipenes stored just below the cloaca) The female has less distance between the cloaca and tail tip (no need to make room for hemipenes) and the tail gets thin abruptly after the cloaca. This applies to most sirtalis sub-species and other Thamnophis species as well.

When you only have a single snake with nothing to compare it to, sometimes can be a tough call. For breeding purposes I have never had to resort to probing any Thamnophis species. The guess based on the differences has always worked for me.

[Conners]

Hi there,

I am hoping someone will be able to answer this question - I have tagged it onto this thread as it's relevant to the question the OP asked.

Does anyone know if Giant Danio (Devario aequipinnatus) contain Thiaminase?

My 18 month old tetrataenia pair cheerfully ate pinks and then mice for over a year, but started refusing them a couple of months back. As they have begun losing condition I am now feeding them on live fish as above to get them back up to a healthy weight. Over time I'll try and get them back onto mice, but right now it's just important they eat something. I am using Danios as they are cheap and the juveniles I get from the local supplier are an appropriate size.

I remember being wary of thiaminase when its effect upon garters was little understood in the 1980s, but it was always thought amongst the reptile keeping fraternity that I was a part of that it developed when fish were frozen, and therefore wouldn't affect live fish. Looking over the info I can find, I fear that may not be true?

Would be grateful for any input.

Yours

Conners

[ConcinusMan]

@conners

I know what you mean about things changing over time. I got started before anyone realized that certain lizards need UVA/UVB so that was a new concept. While I had my first T.S. concinnus pair, I read about thiaminase in the late 80's but they said it was only certain fish, mostly saltwater fish. Goldfish were supposed to be safe and so my concinnus pair ate goldfish throughout their lives (they lived to be 18 and 21 years old).

I must stress however, that goldfish were a "fallback" food, given when nothing else was available. My snakes also got plenty of whole wild caught trout fingerlings, whole tree frogs, dusted night crawlers, amphibian larvae, etc. I probably just got lucky in that the snakes got enough thiamine that it balanced out with the thiaminase laden fish so that it didn't cause any obvious disease. The thiaminase problem is a progressive disease that develops over time. An occasional feeding of "bad" fish isn't going to kill your garter. It's the proportions of thiamanase leden fish to good foods rich in thiamine that's important, especially when they are growing fast and their nervous system is still developing. Think of it this way: bacon and eggs tastes great and will probably do no harm to human. But if he/she eats it twice a day for years on end, it can cause health issues. Sparingly over a lifetime of otherwise healthy eating, bacon and eggs shouldn't cause disease.

Certain species of garters I believe would never take rodent food over fish and worms in the wild. I'm not sure if tetrataenia is one of those that this applies to, but it certainly applies to WC T.S. concinnus. Rodents might very well be more nutritionally complete, but for certain species of garters, it's not their first choice and it's not their natural food.

Might be a good idea to trick your snakes into eating pinky parts, sneaking them in with the fish after the snakes go into a frenzy feeding response and will bite anything. But definitely use a "safe" fish.

Some snakes just get picky at certain points in their lives and when you finally find something they'll eat, they get "spoiled" and won't go back without a little trickery on your part. It's just part of the training process. The snakes are training you, I mean.

[Dameco13]

omg i thought this was my thread lol jk

[Conners]

Hi Concinnus man,

Thank you for that very useful info.

I'm certainly hoping to get these guys back onto rodents by hook or crook, so I'll try the scenting plan you suggest. It's tricky though, as they have both become more and more skittish as they've grown. They will only take the fish if left alone with the live fish in their bowls for a period. Then they'll dart out, grab one, fly back into their hides and repeat the process ten minutes later.

I understand that in the wild San Frans predominantly eat the red-legged frog, but most keepers report that they can get them onto rodents from a young age. I'm not sure why mine have turned away from them.

I did wonder if they were getting the instinct to brumate, and so were avoiding anything but the most tempting, wiggling food. But but the time that occured to me they had started to lose weight, so I wasn't happy to put them into hibernation this year.

I've read elsewhere on the forum that guppies are safe from thiaminase, so I might try those next time. but generally speaking I'll try them on a range of things and see how I get on. They previously refused earthworms, so it looks like they aren't an option. I hope these guys aren't going to keep this up as this evening they've eaten £30 (about $50) worth of Danios, and I can't do that twice a week!

Cheers

Conners

[Conners]

omg i thought this was my thread lol jk

Don't worry, I'm just borrowing it for a minute!

:)

[Dameco13]

y would u even pay that much for 1 days food?

[Conners]

y would u even pay that much for 1 days food?

Because the snakes have to eat and right now live fish are the only things they'll take.

[ConcinusMan]

Hi Concinnus man,

Thank you for that very useful info.

I'm certainly hoping to get these guys back onto rodents by hook or crook, so I'll try the scenting plan you suggest. It's tricky though, as they have both become more and more skittish as they've grown. They will only take the fish if left alone with the live fish in their bowls for a period. Then they'll dart out, grab one, fly back into their hides and repeat the process ten minutes later.
Cheers

Conners

Sounds like they're just being garter snakes. Good!

Please read: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6429-eating-styles.html


I feed a lot of snakes. Most of that feeding this year has been to babies(radix). I've observed many eating styles and thought I would share the different styles I've seen and the names I've given them. Please feel free to add anything I've missed.


Eating Styles



#1 Grab and go: This is where the snake rushes in at first smell/sight of food, grabs a piece and heads to the other end of the enclosure.


#2 Focused/sit and eat: Here the snake simply sits at the food dish and fills up. They are not rushed or hurried. No stealing, no fighting, no interest in any other snake or anything else that is going on.


#3. Chaser/Stealer/Thief: Here the snake ignores the food dish and focuses on anyone with food in their mouth. They will travel across the food dish to attempt to steal food.


#4 Gobbler/Gulper: These snakes swallow as much food as fast as they can. They are nervous and easily turn into a thief.


#5 Silent/invisible: These snakes seem invisible to everyone eating. They move in and out of the food dish. They are not challenged or harassed by anyone. They don't eat fast and never stop moving.


#6 Waiters: These snakes don't attempt to eat or show any interest in what's going on. They wait until the vast majority of the other snakes have eaten. They then slowly move in and eat. If a lot of activity returns to the food dish they simply move off and wait until things calm down again.


#7 Non-eaters: These snakes may visit the food dish or not. They may look like they are going to eat but then lose interest and move off. They may or may not watch others eat and show no interest in eating themselves. They do not show any aggression towards anyone eating. These are the snakes that are most likely to die from "failure to thrive". Aggressive feeding strategies are need to get these snakes started. It should also be noted that these snakes may not survive even if aggressive strategies are used.
* Non- eaters help: In my experience I have found guppies and earthworms(not night crawlers) to be the food items to ignite these snakes into eating. It should also be known that sometimes nothing works for these snakes as they are destine to die from starvation. I personally will euthanize them before this happens. I have also had non-eaters start eating and then out of the blue stop eating and die. I believe these snakes are developmentally behind and in the wild would have died much earlier. The bright spot is the fact some of them do live and thrive.

[Dameco13]

Guys i got the night crawlers

and i do not know how much to feed i fed 3 small minnows(before i knew they weren't safe) every three days now i swapped to crawlers and do not know how much to feed
THIS IS URGENT QUICK REPLYS LOVED

[snakeman]

You can feed your snake minnows.Just not at every feeding.

[guidofatherof5]

Guys i got the night crawlers

and i do not know how much to feed i fed 3 small minnows(before i knew they weren't safe) every three days now i swapped to crawlers and do not know how much to feed
THIS IS URGENT QUICK REPLYS LOVED

2-3 crawlers every few days should be fine for snake that size.
Minnows as a rule carry a heavy parasite load. It you are going to feed those they should be frozen for a couple of months before you feed them. That should kill any adults or eggs. Notice the word "SHOULD" it might not and then you will be introducing parasites.
I suggest you only feed live guppies, if you must feed live fish.
You can always forget the live fish and stay with store bought frozen salmon, tilapia or trout. Then parasites are not an issue.

[ConcinusMan]

It's a judgement call on your part. You're the caretaker. Just see that they get a good buldge in their belly at each feeding. Don't let them get overstuffed but get a nice lump in there that disappears within 2-3 days. The snakes will reveal to you how often they require it. They need to get you trained, but don't worry, you'll get it soon enough. ;)

[Dameco13]

mkay thanks all

[Conners]

Sounds like they're just being garter snakes. Good!

Please read: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6429-eating-styles.html

Cheers ConcinnusMan,

It takes some getting used to as back in the day when I had a colony of parietalis, all I ever saw were voracious, slavering eating habits with no hint of coyness!

Conners

[Dameco13]

welcome to the forums conners

[ConcinusMan]

Cheers ConcinnusMan,

It takes some getting used to as back in the day when I had a colony of parietalis, all I ever saw were voracious, slavering eating habits with no hint of coyness!

Conners

No eating "styles" for individuals? If you keep a group of very young ones together you can't help but notice some differences.

[Anthony Laing]

It seems your mum does not want to keep pinkies in her freezer, but whats wrong with going to the local pet shop every week and buying one pinkie, no freezer is needed:D

[ConcinusMan]

I don't know how it is in London, but here, that would be extremely expensive. Like, $7 for a package of 3. If I go to a different pet store (privately owned and independent) I can get better quality and cheaper $10 for 10 pinkies but that means they have to go in my freezer. It doesn't matter, it's dead flesh just like any other meat.

[Anthony Laing]

I don't know how it is in London, but here, that would be extremely expensive. Like, $7 for a package of 3. If I go to a different pet store (privately owned and independent) I can get better quality and cheaper $10 for 10 pinkies but that means they have to go in my freezer. It doesn't matter, it's dead flesh just like any other meat.

I get 50 pinkies for £10, which is 15 U.S Dollars,
One is 25p which is 38 U.S cents

So not too bad :)

[ConcinusMan]

Dang! you're lucky. I think that's right about what they should cost.

[Anthony Laing]

TBH, if i were you, I would try breeding mice, i can get 3 females and 1 male for about £15 ($20) MAX. They will produce about 20-30 pinkies every 2 months. Not bad if you have a large collection.:D

[Stefan-A]

But the smell... :D

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, that's the ONLY reason I don't do it. If I had a spare room I could keep closed off, I might consider doing it for a 6 months or so. I just can't stand that smell. I don't care how clean you keep them, they STINK!