Erythristic ablino eastern

[Jeff B]

Posted some new photos of the erythristic albino on my website so I thought I would share them here as well.
The first photo was taken on 6-4-09 a day after birth. The next 2 photos below are of same exact snake taken 6 months later today on 12-13-09. This photo comparison demonstrates the color ontogeny associated with the erythristic gene, the red-orange color will continue to intensify into adulthood, this snake and future offspring of this snake will continue to get better looking with age and size, he's is still quite small and not yet eating pinkies, but I can't wait to see what this male snake looks like in a year from now, and even better can't wait to see what an adult female will look like, but thats going to take a couple years.

http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/20090605carteretcoerythristicalbinomale.jpg

http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/CarteretCoErythristicAlbino20091213b.jpg

http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/CarteretCoErythristicAlbino20091213a.jpg

[charles parenteau]

Very nice one!!!
I had one female with 2 het male for at least 2 years than they were ship somewhere in the u.s.
ITs been a while she was crazy! I have pictures of her in my photo somewhere they are very impressive when adult!
[EMAIL="http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/?action=view&current=flamealbino002.jpg"]

[charles parenteau]

IM sorry she was only a flame albino not erythristic sorry about that!!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

very nice!!

Charles, actually a flame IS an erythristic animal, it's just a different type than the full body ery's. Erythristic simply means a rather unnatural amount of red in the snake.

[charles parenteau]

Merci,TAnks Shannon!!!

[charles parenteau]

I still can't post pictures!!!grrrrrrrrrrr wt....???is going on????
The female I kept was over 24 inches when she's gone and she was crazy I mean she had the worst attitude you can imagine but she eat everything like a pig,I don't know exactly where she is gone????

It was over 2 years ago???

[mtolypetsupply]

Beautiful, Jeff!

I am experiencing that ontogeny of which you speak with a little het albino flame male from Scott. He looked barely peach when I got him, now the red is starting laterally. Love how our babies evolve!

:)

[Jeff B]

Charles that is a nice flame albino, looks similar to the flame albino that I have.

Stephi, the flames get better every shed too, a lot of snakes of other genera even change as they develope but it's seems more extreme with reds and blues of garters i think.

[charles parenteau]

The albino I had was for a guy in the u.s.a I kept her almost 2 years but the red orange didn't increase as Im use too .
She was the first or one of the first flame albino like that and also I had at that time her 2 brother flame het .

They grow up here but i did'nt have the chance to bred them ,DrBlais had another plan.Honestly I don't like albino like most people do ,i don't know why?

usually you need to take a look a the parents to see what will look like when adult and better for you if the parents are old (8 years old)and still very red.
I should take a look On Scott F adult they should be nice?

From what I saw on the net these days lot of flame becomes rusty ,red or poor red when 2-3 years old and its worst every year ,they are perfect when 6 months old very red but that can change for the worst.If you have a flame and almost mature and it turn more like brown or rusty red the snake at 3-4 years old do not reproduce it if you want the standard!!!That will contaminate the futur generation!!!After 2 generation its not so apple red or orange pumkin.

Look on my photos ( I can't show you) Four littles scan pictures you see A 3 strippe flame the vertebral very red and the lateral strippe turn rusty red,beleive me or not I fed my boiga with it!!

ANd wild flame don't show the same ontogenic pattern from one location to another.Some population are orange until 6 shed then turn apple red.Some need only 2-3 shed to show how red they are .To me wild flame garter snake are orange flash ,because I can find them almost in every gartersnake population.But in some population most turn red at the beginning of their third summer.

This is why i love flame so much .I never know what I will catch and how the babies will look like!
I hope for you that you little garter will have more and more color with age.

[Jeff B]

Yeah the apple reds are nice and may be the standard, but I like the red-orange that goes up the sides to orange and then to yellow orange like this one too, reminds me more of the flames on a "hot rod" car.http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/20091008flamemohranery1.jpg

[charles parenteau]

Yes I love it its very nice!! WIld flame from Drummondville have red like that on the first part of their body but fade away ,It's so nice.

One of my wc male is red orange I don't know he is strait on the line one ???

[GartersRock]

Yeah the apple reds are nice and may be the standard, but I like the red-orange that goes up the sides to orange and then to yellow orange like this one too, reminds me more of the flames on a "hot rod" car.http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/20091008flamemohranery1.jpg

My fav too! Hot rod flames on black is a good description of it too! :cool:

[reptileparadise]

Very nice Jeff!
Its interesting to see that all the red on the albino is between the scales...

[Eddie]

I love that analogy! I love flamed out hot rods and I love flame garters. It seems to me that the flame garters in the trade about 10 years ago were much more apple red and limited to the lower lateral sides. Now I see much more of the orange that fade upward to yellow. I wonder if it is all the intermix with Erythristics over the years.
Eddie

[charles parenteau]

I have a huge probleme right now,I tried every possible way to post pictures and it dont work I want show you more pictures of the albino flame...
Stupid question ???can people see all my picures on photobucket how its works???

[reptileparadise]

Just copy /paste the [img]......[ /img] code from your photobucket account

[Jeff B]

I also have flames that are of the typical red on the bottom half only pictured below that I aquired from Tina, but you are right some of the flames have been crossed with erys.
http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/2009flamefemale.jpg
The one that I posted with the "hot rod" flames is a from Jeff Mohrs female wild caught anerythristic looking eastern crossed to a flame, then a flame male F1 was crossed back to the wild caught anery female, resulting in the "hot rod". This crossing was done by Scott Felzer using one of his flames on a breeding loan, but I actually acquired that snake and another one that looks just like it, as well as 2 females that are basically normals, (however they are mostly black and white) from Jeff Mohr, they were his split on the deal but since they didn't really prove out as anery he didn't want to waste time with them, so sold his half of the litter to me, 11 snakes, but only the 2 females and 2 male "hot rods" lived. We (Jeff, Scott, and myself) also think it is possible that the flame gene might have partially "masked" or reduced the effect of the anery gene effectively canceling it out. So I'm interested to work with these 4 snakes to see if there still might be some genetic poteintial to creating something new and interesting, I know Scott will be working with his hets too.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

My female orange flame is very odd looking... she's orangeish, but its almost a pink as opposed to orange... in fact... I can't actually find any yellow on her at all! There is a whited-out stripe going along her sides, a stripe that would normally be like a cream or yellow. and if you look closely at her color, it's actually small fleckings of red pigment as opposed to an actual orange color. It's almost like she just doesn't have yellow! I call her my ugly flame :p

[charles parenteau]

This is a very nice looking flame ,see the red in the white dot,this is familiar to my location ..
I have so many photos that I should scan someday and show you all about the wild flame this is an endless story....

I just scratch the surface about genetic and one thing I know for sure I have a lot to learn.ONe thing I know is that you don't need to cross anery x flame to have a crimson or whatever looking like that,and I want to know what you want to produce with it???what color and what you expect from ???

Someday I will show you something and honestly that will blow your mind for sure!!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah the apple reds are nice and may be the standard, but I like the red-orange that goes up the sides to orange and then to yellow orange like this one too, reminds me more of the flames on a "hot rod" car.http://gartersnakemorph.com/images/20091008flamemohranery1.jpg

WOW! that snake is gorgeous! I love it! fantastic! OK, who's gotta flame eastern they want to sell to me? or perhaps something just as striking, or perhaps an albino ANYTHING (garter) with lots of red like this from Scott Feltzer's page:
http://www.albinogartersnake.com/images/3643Red_sided_albino_Kansas__strain_3_CB_07_adult_ female_01_25_2009.jpg
I've seen other albinos at reasonable prices but they don't have that red to contrast with the yellow. And c'mon, what's taking so long for someone to show me a albino concinnus? I've seen the anery concinnus. neat, but it just doesn't make me say "wow" I want to see an albino with the red (and yellow stripe) intact!

[ssssnakeluvr]

I saw a pic of an albino concinnus about many years ago....I think it was on the original website for thamnophis.com no idea what happened with the snake..

[ConcinusMan]

I did find this text "Albino: These snakes have all the black parts of a normal T. concinnus replaced with a light purple, the red by an almost neon orange, and everything else being a chalky yellow-white. As an albino, this species has the highest amount of purple on the body of any garter species." on this web page: The Garter Girl! (http://www.angelfire.com/fang/garter_girl/speciessirtalis.html)

Darn, I'd like to see that. No pics. Sounds awesome.

[Jeff B]

Shannon how is that wild caught flame that you caught doing? the one with the greenish topside, I thought that was a very unique and pretty snake, would like to see an udated photo, was it a male or a female? I cant remember

Charles, I actually have other ideas and crosses in mind with the anery, but I have to isolate those genes and prove out that it is an inheritable trait first and foremost before it is even worth talking about.

Concincusman, the 2nd photo you posted from Scotts page actually looks to be an albino red-sided (parietalis). I will be producing those this spring as will Scott and many other people I would guess. I will also be producing flames, albino flames, and erythristic flames as will Scott, Tom Dickenson, and other too I would guess. The only thing I have for sale is an 09 normal red-sided female that is 66% possible het for albino and anerythristic, $50. You might check with Scott to see if he has any flames or what he has left?

[ConcinusMan]

Scott has no flames for sale. Just some santa cruz's (currently brumating) for $75. What? good grief. I don't see why they would demand such a price. I had no idea. I once found them in great numbers but didn't keep any. Or maybe I'm confused about the species. I found them litterally on the beach just north of Monterey, CA in May of '86 They looked like this one:
http://www.toothandscale.com/photos/thamnophis_elegans.jpg

His page also indicates what he'll be producing. $100-$150 for a flame eastern? good lawd. I can't pay that for a snake. I guess I can dream.

[charles parenteau]

I have few year born babies flame to give if you want thoses with twisting motion!!!!!
I don't want them come here in Canada ill give you ...Probably the best is to freeze them I dont think there is anything to do with them They are just nice but not normal to me!!!!
Julio I still have your greenish and orange little female if you still want to come here this spring????
hum I still have problem to show you pictures?I post so many here over the years ,now those pictures dont want to appear!!!!!
I need to talk a walk outside I think Its just -15 celcius...

[ConcinusMan]

"I have few year born babies flame to give if you want thoses with twisting motion!!!!!"

I'll assume you're talking about flame easterns but I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "twisting motion".

I don't understand your problem with posting pics. All you need to do is upload somewhere on the web, right-click the pic, "copy image location"(in firefox) and paste the URL between this code imagelocation. Now it's possible that the image won't show on your computer for some reason, but it might show on others'.

[charles parenteau]

haha sorry when I say twisting motion I mean they have a locomotion probleme I talk about it in other thread and I notice little anomally on them Icant show you now , but I dont think they will make a good selection!!!!
I realease all my other year born baby.

[snakeman]

I did find this text "Albino: These snakes have all the black parts of a normal T. concinnus replaced with a light purple, the red by an almost neon orange, and everything else being a chalky yellow-white. As an albino, this species has the highest amount of purple on the body of any garter species." on this web page: The Garter Girl! (http://www.angelfire.com/fang/garter_girl/speciessirtalis.html)

Darn, I'd like to see that. No pics. Sounds awesome.
I had a pic of this snake.I think it was on my other computer.

[drache]

I don't understand your problem with posting pics. All you need to do is upload somewhere on the web, right-click the pic, "copy image location"(in firefox) and paste the URL between this code imagelocation. Now it's possible that the image won't show on your computer for some reason, but it might show on others'.
I have problems posting pictures, and it's not all straight forward for everyone, not even if you have a web-based photo account.
I tried three different ones before I found one that made it possible for me to post pictures here, and when I recently joined another forum that has a format very much like this one, it didn't work there and I'm going to have to start all over
perhaps Charles has a Mac?

[ConcinusMan]

I use imageshack and have no issues. Just don't use the code that they give you for forums. It's real simple. After you upload it, view the pic at full size. Right click and copy the image URL and paste that between image codes. No problem at all. Works for ANY forum.

[drache]

I may try that on the other forum
currently I am using flickr, and I can just highlight the image, hit "copy", come here, hit "paste", and the image shows up
so far on the other forum, nothing shows up
if i copy the code, the code shows up

[ConcinusMan]

Then it's the wrong code is all. Leave out the codes and just copy the url from that code and use the image insert button in this forum. I'd like to see some of the pics you intended to show us. Heck, most sites that have pics in them will even allow you to hotlink to them. In other words, I see a pic on a website I want to show you, and I copy the URL of the pic and put it in the box that pops up when I hit the insert image button and viola! it shows up in the post. Easy peasy.

[Jeff B]

It's easy to load pictures from your computer or a web photo host site onto this forum.

To load pictures from your computer just use the manage attachments selection from the additional options menu below the message window, note the maximum file sizes for the different file types, that may be one of your issues.
If you want to post a picture that is already on the web, I find it easy to simply copy and paste the URL, one easy way to do that is to simply right click on the photo, then click properties, it will display the URL and you can just copy that and paste it into the window here for images that asks for a URL.

[charles parenteau]

Female albino flame
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/flamealbino0009.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking snake, Charles.

[drache]

that is some snake, Charles
very unusual colouring

[ConcinusMan]

Gorgeous creature. Simply gorgeous.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

wowww, gotta love those t positives!

[charles parenteau]

This picture was taken few years ago,this female was send somewhere in the U.s.a with 2 males het ,I think she one of the first of this kind...She grow up here than never heard about it since!!

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Scott has no flames for sale. Just some santa cruz's (currently brumating) for $75. What? good grief. I don't see why they would demand such a price. I had no idea. I once found them in great numbers but didn't keep any. Or maybe I'm confused about the species. I found them litterally on the beach just north of Monterey, CA in May of '86 They looked like this one:
http://www.toothandscale.com/photos/thamnophis_elegans.jpg


I believe this snake is actually a Coast Garter (T. e. terrestris), although this subspecies' status has recently been absorbed by the Mountain (T. e. elegans) clade (except in Humboldt County, CA).

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, you're right. I knew something wasn't right. Still, Scott is asking $75 (EDIT: make that $60) for T.a. atratus? good grief. What are they pink with purple polka dots?

[ssssnakeluvr]

because they are not common in the pet trade...we may see them commonly, but the general pet trade rarely sees them.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I have seen more of the Santa Cruz subspecies on the market than the Oregon (hydrophilus). T. a. atratus usually has brighter yellows than hydrophilus; some are strikingly striped in this regard; many resemble the highly contrasted (black/white or black/yellow) Mountains (T. e. elegans).

Both Sierra (T. couchii) and hydrophilus are often dull and unremarkable. Still, hydrophilus comes in 3 common and discernable patterns: spotted or checkered (SW Oregon and extreme NNW CA [Del Norte Co.]), spotted and striped (NW CA [Siskiyou, eastern Humboldt, and N Trinity counties]), and striped (NW CA [Trinity, Mendocino, and counties further south]).

Personally, I believe the beauty of the checkered (or spotted) specimens can not be fully appreciated until you witness the pattern under water. T. atratus and T. couchii are notorious for diving into rough waters when fleeing a predator. Many localities for both species include serpentine terrain which makes the rivers breathtakingly blue-green. The checkered variants, in my opinion, have the best pattern to complement their aquatic behavior. Many of these snakes have a light turqoise-gray coloration between their checkers (especially obvious after they've eaten; even my one-eyed spotted and striped variant "Lefty" has it). This coloration helps these guys disappear even in calm water.

http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/20090729HCHSimage-Oregon_Garter_feeding-WalkerRiverBar_RNSP_Del_Norte_County1B.JPG
juvenile Oregon Garter (checkered variant), Smith River (Del Norte Co.) 7/29/09

http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/2008-07-04HCHSimage-Oregon_Garter-juv._3_-So.Fk._Smith_River.JPG
juvenile Oregon Garter (checkered variant), So. Fk. Smith River (Del Norte County) 7/4/08

http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/HCHSimage-Oregon_Garter_feeding1-So._Fk._Salmon_River-07-19-2007.JPG
Oregon Garter (spotted/striped variant) So. Fk. Salmon River (SW Siskiyou Co.) 7/19/2007

http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/09-19-2007HCHSimage-w-c_one-eyed_Oregon_Garter_Matthew_s_Creek_.JPG
"Lefty" (spotted/striped) (Siskiyou County) 9/3/07

http://www.humboldtherps.com/images/Pacific_Coast_Aquatic_Garter_Snake_-_Oregon_ssp_South_Fork_Trinity_River_Hellgate_Camp ground_04-09-2007.jpg
Oregon Garter (striped) So. Fk. Trinity River (Trinity County) 4/9/07

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Sorry about the huge pic! ...but you can really see the light blue!

[Stefan-A]

Sorry about the huge pic! ...but you can really see the light blue!
Changed it to a link, I hope you don't mind.

Can't see any blue, though. Not any that's not just the sky's reflection. But definitely beautiful pictures.

[guidofatherof5]

Great photos once again. Thanks for posting them.

[drache]

very nice photos - thanks

[ConcinusMan]

I actually had a checkered one similar to the first pic, that I found in Oregon, but no stripe was discernible at all and it had a black neck. Dang near looked like a marci. Here's another example but again, this one has a stripe. Mine did not. I found it a few miles SW of Oregon City. One thing is for sure, there is variety among elegans.http://www.kingsnake.com/stha/checkered-garter.jpeg

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Can't see any blue, though. Not any that's not just the sky's reflection. But definitely beautiful pictures.

So, that's what's going on? Reflectivity? It works! You should see it in serpentine waters!