Lump on injured garter

[cwkeys]

Hi, I'm new to this site and I'm new to owning a snake. I found a baby garter snake, about 8 inches long, on my sidewalk It looked like it had something under its skin; like maybe it had just eaten. The next day I came outside and the poor guy was sitting in the same place, only now he had a huge lump on his back with a wound near the bottom of the lump. It was about 40 degrees. He was so cold and figured he would die if I left him outside, so I brought him in and now I'm the proud owner of a garter snake. I cleaned his wound and put antibiotic cream on it. I took him to my exotic vet who sees a lot of snakes. He said the lump was not from broken ribs or from a broken spine. He can move his body, but he just lays in one place and I find him in the same postition I left him in. The vet thought he just needed to be warmed up. So I got a reptile heating pad, but it doesn't seem to be making a difference. He still doesn't move. I have been giving him drops of water from an eyedropper every couple of hours since he won't go to his water dish, or anywhere else for that matter. He drinks several drops of water, but so far he's refused food. Has anyone heard of this happening? Could the lump be from something he ate? It's now been close to a week that I've had him. The lump is getting a little smaller, but again, he's not moving around at all. I know this is probably a dumb question, but is it possible that his body was already slowing down in preperation for hiberntion? Maybe he's still trying to hibernate? I've grown rather attached to the little guy and I want him to have a normal life. Any advice or suggestions?

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome,
If you can post a photo that would be great. Thanks for taking the time to help the little scrub. A wild little garter to the Vet. I love it. Nice move. It sounds like you're doing the right thing with the heat and making sure it gets water. He/she will need some settling in time. Be patient. You are also right about the snake making plans for brumation.

[drache]

welcome to the forum
the little guy may be in shock - who knows what it's been through to end up with the injury
just give it some time and see . . .

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

wow.... if he as still in the same spot the following day, it doesn't sound too good! Hopefully with continued support he will pull through, but it does not sound hopeful. Make sure to give him a place to hide and disturb him as little as possible! good luck

[cwkeys]

Thank you so much for your quick replies. I know you're right; it doesn't look good. The weird thing is he can move his whole body from his head to his tail, but it's like he can't coordinate the movements to propel himself forward. Like he's slithering in place when he does try to move.

I'm attaching a few pictures so you can see the lump and the wound. Seeing the wound on the maco setting of my camera gives me a whole new perspective on how badly he's hurt. I'll take your advice and hope for the best. He has such a sweet little disposition. I believe, from my very limited knowledge, that his is a black-necked garter snake. Thanks again for all the advice. What a great forum!
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[guidofatherof5]

Looks like some kind of a crushing injury.
If you can get food and water in it should do well.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, cwkeys :)
Thanks for taking the time to help the little scrub :cool:

[jitami]

Poor little punkin... thanks for helping it! There's a chance that the swelling can go down and he can regain control... and for that reason I'd keep doing what you're doing for a while, but the chances are probably slim :(

[cwkeys]

Thanks so much everyone! Last night my husband made a trail out of twigs and bark and he actually perked up and started smelling everything. Then he started pulling himself along by hooking his head and neck over a stick and then dragging the rest of his body. He made it all the way across his enclosure and got his head up on his water dish (He didn't drink though, I'm still giving water by an eyedropper). It was so encouraging to see the sweet little guy move around. Today he hasn't moved at all. He's all tucked in his hiding log, but at least if he gets overheated he might be able to move somewhere cooler under his own steam. Last night I thought he might be able to get better, today I'm less sure. Thanks again for all your concern and wonderful advice. There's nothing better than the knowledge that comes from experienced owners. Thanks for being so willing to share it with me. It makes me feel better to know that I'm doing all I can. We'll keep a good thought and hope for the best!

[drache]

looking at the close-up, I am wondering whether there is some infectious matter in there that needs to be cleaned out
in snakes, what would be pus in humans, is more like a cheesy lumpy affair, and doesn't come out easily
not sure what to tell you
I have one vet who would never futz with anything like that beyond giving antibiotics, and another who would be more inclined to cut it open to see what's in there

[cwkeys]

Interesting you should say that. I was thinking it looked lumpy in there. The strange thing is, when I took him to the vet he couldn't even find the wound and in fairness, I couldn't either. I don't know if it was the light in his office or what. It definately shows up in detail with the macro setting on my camera. Maybe I should forward him the pictures. When you talk about antibiotics is that something that is injected?

[guidofatherof5]

Your third photo clearly shows some kind of break in the skin.
Rhea's advice on making sure it is cleaned out is good. Some hydrogen peroxide on any open area will not harm the snake.
Keep the water good and clean. Garters have a bad habit of using their water dish as a toilet. They like to soak when they have an injury and dirty water will only add to the problem.

[drache]

there may have been an original wound that closed and left stuff festering in there
if your vet is willing to do surgery on such a small animal, I'd see whether he can cut it open and clean it out
generally Baytril is given, which works better orally and is a pain in the butt to give, unless you have a very hungry snake and you can give them a small prey item injected with a high dose every other day
good luck with that

[ConcinusMan]

That doesn't look good to me. I tend to agree with some of you and I think there's stuff festering in there. If you don't get it out of there, he could become septic and die.

[cwkeys]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I took him back to the vet on Tuesday and he thought he looked better and that he was definitely moving much better. The lump is getting smaller and I am continuing to clean the wound with peroxide followed by antibiotic cream. I am finding him in different areas of the enclosure and I do see him move occasionally, so that is a little improvement from where we were before.

The vet keeps offering to keep him and care for him. He said if he was there, he could force feed him etc. and that if I wanted him to do that, I could. I have read on this forum that force feeding usually results in the death of the snake, so I didn't want him to do that and I brought him home.

I searched the threads on the forum about how long a snake could go without eating and it seemed like the consensus was about two weeks for a baby. It's been over two so I decided to do an assisted feeding. Recently, when I'm giving him water from the eyedropper (he still won't go to his water dish) he opens his mouth really wide afterwards. It almost looks like he wants to throw up, but nothing usually comes out. I thought I could cut up an earthworm and stick it in his mouth when he did that, but I missed my chance. I gently grasped him behind his head and rubbed a piece of earthworm on his mouth. He finally opened his mouth and after several tries, I managed to get two earthworm pieces in him totaling about half an inch into him. I really tried not to make it overly traumatic and I hope I haven't made a mistake. I told my family not to bother him at all for the next 48 hours (no wound care). I am still giving him water, but I'm bringing the eyedropper to him, wherever he is. I'm not moving him at all. He did get more active after eating, which for him means he moved across his enclosure…eventually and I'm finding him in different places, whereas before he never moved from where I put him, so I feel like that's somewhat encouraging. I hope I haven't done more harm than good. I will keep watching the wound closely. I photograph it on macro everyday so I can see it clearly and watch for changes. It is closing up, but I suppose if it's infected and he goes septic, the fact that it looks like it's getting smaller really doesn't mean a whole lot.

[guidofatherof5]

You might see if the Vet. will give you a small amount of Silver Sulfadiazine. It works wonders on wounds. I use 1% cream. Best of luck.

[cwkeys]

Just a quick update. The wound seems to have closed up. His spine still looks out of alignment, but it is looking better too. The best part is he's moving around quite a bit with a surprising amount of speed and vigor, despite the spine issue. When I pick him up he wiggles quite a bit too so I feel like he's showing improvement. Whether there is underlying infection where the wound was remains to be seen, but I'll hope for the best.

I have done two assisted feedings about two weeks apart. Both times I got about 1/2 inch of earthworm in him total. He doesn't seem too interested in eating and he's not any thinner than he was when I picked him up. The assisted feeding may not be necessary right now, but it makes me feel better to think he has a little nutrition in him.

I am still giving him water through the eyedropper. He may be drinking out of his dish or the low lid I put in, but I never catch him near them so I can't say for sure. He always will take water from the eyedropper like he's thirsty so, for now, I guess I'll continue doing that.

Thank you to everyone for all their wonderful advice! Keep your fingers crossed!

[brubru2]

So, (if he survives) will you keep the little guy?:confused:

[cwkeys]

That's a really good question. Ideally, because he is wild, he would heal and I would be able to release him when the weather is warm enough. I guess we will have to access his level of function when the time comes. If the vet feels he has no chance of survival in the wild, then I feel like it is my responsibility to care for him since I was the one that interfered with nature and brought him inside, but if he's able to move normally and hunt for himself, then it wouldn't be fair for me to keep him as a pet...no matter how much I've come to love the little guy.

[guidofatherof5]

That's a really good question. Ideally, because he is wild, he would heal and I would be able to release him when the weather is warm enough. I guess we will have to access his level of function when the time comes. If the vet feels he has no chance of survival in the wild, then I feel like it is my responsibility to care for him since I was the one that interfered with nature and brought him inside, but if he's able to move normally and hunt for himself, then it wouldn't be fair for me to keep him as a pet...no matter how much I've come to love the little guy.

That all makes perfect sense but the reality is it's easier said than done. These little scrubs get inside our hearts and make it difficult to let go and that's the ones that are in perfect health. Tack on the fact they are injured and it's a heartwrenching decision to release them.
I wish you the best of luck and in the end I hope you have a new member to your family:D

[ConcinusMan]

I had one very young ordinoides that showed up in my backyard, fresh after a fight with a lawnmower. He had a badly kinked spine, missing ribs/skin. I though for sure he would die. He showed up a few years later, twice his original size, in spite of not moving very well, even after he healed. Kinda hard to move very fast with a broken spine, but he survived and grew.

[cwkeys]

Hi everyone. I came downstairs this morning and found Smitty with another "kink" in his spine. I'm attaching some pictures. Maybe someone has seen this before. As you can see, the lump closest to his head is the original injury that caused a deformity in the spine; the second bend is the new one. It doesn't look raised or injured like the first one, so I started searching the web and I'm wondering if it could possibly be cryptosporidium. From what I've read it sounds like they won't drink on their own (He doesn't, I give him water from an eyedropper) and they vomit what they do drink (which he also does; not the whole thing, but some of the water). They also won't eat on their own (he doesn't do that either; I have done an "assisted feeding twice, two weeks apart. The last one was 10 days ago) It also said you would see a swelling in the stomach. (I can't tell if his stomach would be located where the kink is or not.) He was moving around a lot, but now he's slowed down quite a bit. I find him in different places in his enclosure, but he's definitely more lethargic. Does anyone have any idea what could be happening? He hasn't been injured in any way. I'm the only one who handles him.

[ConcinusMan]

Poor lil' guy. Breakin' my heart. :(

I'm pretty sure that cryptosporidium only affects mammals, but I could be wrong. I don't really know too much about snake diseases. Never had a serious disease strike any of my babies. Serious injuries and a few skin infections I've dealt with, but nothing like this.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks to me like it is all related to the original injury. Looks degenerative. Sounds like your putting in the effort for the little guy.
I have been where your at and have been faced with the reality of what's best for the snake and ultimately what's best for me. You may at some point(a time you will only know) be forced to put Smitty down. It's never what we want but sometimes it's what is best. You and Smitty are in our prayers.
Thank you for your devotion to this wonderful little creature and friend.

[charles parenteau]

Look what i found last year .this male eastern garter snake was wounded so bad ,but still alive !!!

[charles parenteau]

sorry this is it if it work?

[cwkeys]

Thanks everyone. I'm just going to take a few days and watch him, but I'm afraid I know what needs to be done. My husband made the point that because I give him food and water since he won't do it for himself that I basically have him on life support and that if I stopped doing that, he would die. I guess it's not much of a life for him. I knew the odds of trying to keep a wild snake when I brought him inside; nevertheless, much sadness : (

[guidofatherof5]

Hang in there. It a tough thing to do and you'll know when the time is right. If that time comes. I am so thankful that this little one found you. Your husband is right, this is life support but sometimes that is needed. If it becomes the only way the snake will survive then you have to look at the quality if its life.
Best of luck and keep us posted.

[ConcinusMan]

I only resort to euthanasia in extreme circumstances. Last time I did it was when I found a Coluber constrictor mormon tangled up in duct tape. I tried everything to release him, but scales were coming off and his jaw was.. well it was bad. Real bad, and hopeless, and he was obviously suffering greatly. I wanted to make it quick, so a sharp hatchet did the trick.

Even badly injured snakes such as yours, I usually don't euthanize. I release them. In one case, I thought for sure the snake would die but he showed up a few years later, alive and larger. Your call though.

[brubru2]

Well, hopefully he'll make it, but it sounds like that time has already passed. :(
God bless you Smitty.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hi everyone. I came downstairs this morning and found Smitty with another "kink" in his spine. I'm attaching some pictures. Maybe someone has seen this before. As you can see, the lump closest to his head is the original injury that caused a deformity in the spine; the second bend is the new one. It doesn't look raised or injured like the first one, so I started searching the web and I'm wondering if it could possibly be cryptosporidium. From what I've read it sounds like they won't drink on their own (He doesn't, I give him water from an eyedropper) and they vomit what they do drink (which he also does; not the whole thing, but some of the water). They also won't eat on their own (he doesn't do that either; I have done an "assisted feeding twice, two weeks apart. The last one was 10 days ago) It also said you would see a swelling in the stomach. (I can't tell if his stomach would be located where the kink is or not.) He was moving around a lot, but now he's slowed down quite a bit. I find him in different places in his enclosure, but he's definitely more lethargic. Does anyone have any idea what could be happening? He hasn't been injured in any way. I'm the only one who handles him.

It's not crypto. Crypto would not cause the snake to be kinking up like that, and he would be vomiting. Sometimes when they drink water comes back up, especially if they put their head down or if they are picked up. I could see that getting worse if the snake has kinks like those ones. When snakes vomit, they very violently convulse and pulsate their entire body, it is unmistakeable. They belly swelling would be very puffy and about directly in the middle of his body for 3-4 inches of length. It would feel like he's full of air. Also, he may be drinking little bits on his own when you aren't looking, they don't drink very often and it's only for a few seconds. Sadly, it looks like that little guy was badly injured and now the paralysis (possibly an infection?) is spreading. Kudos to you for trying!!! :o

[cwkeys]

Hi everyone, thanks again for all the good advice and support and I hope you all had a very Merry Christmas. I am sad to report that Smitty died this afternoon. He was moving around his cage a lot this morning and I was so encouraged, as that was more than I've seen him move in awhile. I went back to give him some water a couple of hours later and found he had passed away. He didn't seem to be in any kind of distress this morning; he drank from the eyedropper just like he always did, so hopefully he died quickly and was not in any pain. Thank you all again for all the great information. I'm sure he lived as long as he did because of the excellent advice I got from all you seasoned Garter snake owners. I am so grateful for your willingness to share your knowledge.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. You gave him the best chance and extended his life. Thanks for all your effort. These kind of things are hard to take but they are also great learning experiences.
If you would ever like to take care of a couple radixes I would like to give them to you free of charge. I won't ship now because of the weather. Let me know.
Once again, sorry about your loss.
RIP Smitty.

[cwkeys]

Thank you for you kindness Steve. The fact that you would consider trusting to care for one of your babies means more than can I say. I'll keep that in mind.

I was okay Christmas day; I think because I had a house full of people, but the past two days I have been absolutely heartsick. I loved that little guy. He was a very special snake. I knew the odds going in, but everyday he lived, gave me more hope that he would survive. I'm sure he couldn't have been very happy not being able to move around like a normal snake, but I feel like he gave it his all in an effort to survive. He was very courageous. I will miss him.

[The Snake Whisperer]

The best way I've found to remove a snake or other small creature from duct tape or glue traps, is to use mineral oil. Apply mineral oil liberally and gently work the animal froee from the tape. You may have to reapply more oil in stubborn spots but using mineral oil makes it possible to remove even a snake thoroughly stuck, without losing anything more than a few scales. After the removal, I generally wrap the animal in paper towels and gently rub to help soak as much of the oil off the animal as possible, just because I don't want to put the snake back into its enclosure in excessively oily condition. The paper towels will soak up most of the oil.

Surprisingly, after excess oil removal, when I put the snake back, substrate (I use a mix of aspen bedding & carefresh) does NOT stick to the still somewhat oily snake. The snake does not remain oily for long but whether the oil is absorbed by the snake or its bedding, I don't know because when rechecking several hours later, the snakes haven't been oily and the bedding wasn't oily either. I've done this same thing to mice that escaped and got caught in a glue trap & by the next day their fur would be back to normal and not greasy.

[guidofatherof5]

No mineral oil?
Olive oil will work also.:)

[mustang]

what about grease?

[guidofatherof5]

what about grease?


Too thick and not as easy to get off when your done.
Just my opinion.

[ConcinusMan]

The best way I've found to remove a snake or other small creature from duct tape or glue traps, is to use mineral oil.


Sounds good but in the end, nothing worked. Short of pulling half the snakes scales (and tounge) off, there was no way I could free the snake from duct tape. Best bet is to not use any kind of tape anywhere near your garter snakes. If you can't keep them from escaping without tape, then ditch whatever you're keeping them in and get something more adequate. Unless you live on the moon, you should be able to get 10-20 gallon screen top reptile tanks for $10-$20 and even newborns cannot get out. For even less money than that, you can get quality escape-proof poly containers.

[The Snake Whisperer]

It takes some time and effort, you pour a generous amount of mineral oil on the spot where the snake is stuck, then you wait for it to soak in a bit, then gently try to pry away the duct tape along the edge of the stuck snake. Usually a little of the tape will loosen, at which point you apply a little more oil so it can penetrate further. I've successfully removed snakes from duct tape who were completely stuck and tangled in it from head to tail.
It takes time, patience, and repetition of applying oil as you go. The one thing you never want to do is use more than gentle force when trying to pry the tape away from the snake after applying the oil.
Yes olive oil will work too, but mineral oil is cheaper and useful enough to keep on hand all the time. It works well to unstick snakes or pet rodents or other small creatures from glue traps too, and has a number of other uses as well.

There is a possibility that your snake had a developmental defect that as he grew, affected him more and more. It's also even more possible, judging from the description of the problem, that you were dealing with an abscess-and unless an abscess is kept open so it heals from the inside out, only the top will heal over and trap the infection inside, allowing the abscess to regrow. You have to keep flushing an abscess daily-I use hydrogen peroxide because it cleans out abscesses and as an abscess heals and infection clears, the peroxide foams less. After flushing an abscess, I will pack the wound with triple antibiotic ointment, Panalog works well also on snakes & so does Neosporin. I haven't had an abscess in a snake but in the past, I've treated wild garters who had been bitten by a cat and if a cat bite isn't treated in the same way as an abscess so it heals from the inside out, it will end up causing an abscess.
Abscesses as they grow, also tend to travel downward due to the influence of gravity. When opening an abscess to drain it, it should be opened at the bottom of the abscess so gravity can encourage it to drain and continue draining.
An abscess begins usually as a puncture wound which may not be easy to see, punctures in animals are often due to the bite of another animal. Your description of the way the swelling became noticeable after you found the animal and saw it had been injured, fits the way abscesses develop.
Abscesses can burst and form again if they aren't treated. Left untreated,abscesses can grow and spread and the infection can end up going systemic and kill the animal.
Thing is, if your snake had an abscess, I'm surprised your vet didn't recognize it. Its common for pets to be bitten or otherwise sustain a wound, particularly puncture wounds, that may not even be noticeable until an abscess develops and grows large enough to attract human attention, thus prompting the owner to take the animal to the vet.