Depressing turn of events...

[the_edsta]

My beautiful, juvenile red-spotted (Cholula was her name) died suddenly today. She had appeared in perfect health, had been eating almost every-other day or so (2-4 live, wild-caught minnows each time), and was active enough. I'd thought she'd had her second shed, though when she died, her eyes were millky when she died and it made me start wondering if I'd simply missed my other garter (a florida blue) shedding a third time and assumed it was her.

She was an absolutely wonderful garter, and unequivocally my favorite snake. She would watch me when I walked past the terrarium, come up to me when I put my hand in, and even allow me to pick her up occassionally for some sun-bathing on our porch. I am depressed about all of this...

I am just wondering if other people have experienced something like this (being so unexpected and all) and if there are any potential explanations beyond the simple, cruel hand of fate. I have suspected that she was the "runt" in the litter as she was always undersized and extremely docile, and that certainly seems confirmed in this turn of events...http://www.electronicsyllabus.com/nature/cholula2.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. It's always tough losing one but losing one to an unexplained death is even harder. I doubt if her death had anything to do with the shed.
There is so much we don't know about them. They can look healthy and be acting fine but sometimes there are things going on inside we just can't see. I'm glad she meant so much to you. They are very special friends.
I wish you the best in this hard time.

I've had a increase of unexplained deaths here at the Ranch. With a large number of snakes(babies), comes a higher percentage of these deaths.

[GarterGeek]

Sorry for your loss. :(

Is it possible that the minnows carried parasites?

[Stefan-A]

A real shame.

[the_edsta]

Thank you guys very much....

I've thought about the parasite thing a bit... and I suppose it is difficult to say. Almost all of the ponds in FL abut some kind of cared-for lawn (especially with all the golf courses etc. in this area), so I was leaning toward pesticides/fertilizers in the water. But why, then, the proliferation of minnows in this particular small pond? I've also seen water snakes living in the same body of water... and besides which, my Florida blue is expanding in size by the second on these minnows (though I'm worried about him now too considering how random his cage-mate's death was!). And I thought I was doing them a favor by catching wild minnows rather than feeding the store-bought stuff...

[guidofatherof5]

Thank you guys very much....

I've thought about the parasite thing a bit... and I suppose it is difficult to say. Almost all of the ponds in FL abut some kind of cared-for lawn (especially with all the golf courses etc. in this area), so I was leaning toward pesticides/fertilizers in the water. But why, then, the proliferation of minnows in this particular small pond? I've also seen water snakes living in the same body of water... and besides which, my Florida blue is expanding in size by the second on these minnows (though I'm worried about him now too considering how random his cage-mate's death was!). And I thought I was doing them a favor by catching wild minnows rather than feeding the store-bought stuff...



Then there is always the thiaminase issue and minnows. Without knowing which minnow you are feeding the thiaminase card is unknown but the parasites would be a cause for concern. Parasites don't as a rule kill their host. They only wnat to use them. A whole pond may have a parasite issue and yet seem healthy.
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,

[gregmonsta]

Sorry for your loss.

[CRIKEY!]

My condolences. She was a beautiful little snake. :(

[ConcinusMan]

Ditto. That sucks. She/he was pretty small. After numerous litters of that same snake from my (now resting in peace due to old age) concinnus pair, that always happened to a few around that size/age. It's unavoidable. Sometimes, they just up and die. Thankfully, the majority of them live. I found that the dying thing happened much less if I only fed them small worms or tiny pieces of freshwater fish meat, or thigh meat off of wild-caught pacific tree frogs. (no hard parts, bones, etc.). That was learned over many clutches and could just be coincidence that more of them live. Even on the soft diet, some would just up and die. No rhyme or reason. Just a few out of a large clutch of 50 or so. I never fed them food from the pet store, as neonates though. I always fed them wild-collected food too, (but only twice a week) unless we're talking about the adult parents. I fed them feeder goldfish on occasion. Even out of a small brood of only 10 or 15, they would all seem to be doing great, and one or two would suddenly up and die a few months into their lives. It happens. I just chocked it up to developmental issues, since they are growing so fast at that stage. And yes, it was usually the smaller, weaker looking individuals that suddenly died. Yours looks strong and healthy though.

Sorry for the loss. I know it can be heartbreaking, but don't let it hurt your confidence. You probably did nothing wrong. It just happens. I've released a few hundred red-spotted youngsters over the years. (I live within their native range) Wasn't long ago at all that I released 20 or so that looked just like your guy. I'm now starting to regret it. If I had kept a few, I would have mailed you one for free. Again, sorry for your loss.

[jitami]

I'm so sorry. She was a beautiful little snake :(

[the_edsta]

Thank you all... you've made me feel better about the whole ordeal.

:-)

Concinnus -- that is pretty much exactly what I was hoping someone with your level of experience with these snakes would say. Thank you very much for taking the time to say it...

[the_edsta]

Thought I'd post a less depressing picture of her. Here is cholula playing in the wicker (her favorite place to sunbathe!):

http://www.electronicsyllabus.com/nature/wicker.jpg

[Mommy2many]

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

[charles parenteau]

Sorry for your lost ...this was a beautiful garter snake.

[indigoman]

I'm sorry to read the bad news. we do get quite attached, hang in

[drache]

sorry for your loss

[mustang]

my condolences