Dillema: blood in feces and legal problem?

[confused]

Hi, interesting problem complicating what is probably a simple issue. I am in NY. I found a baby (11 inch?) garter snake under my computer. She had been there for a while, about 9 poops were under there and a shed skin. She was tiny, weak and didn't really run from us. When I picked her up she just went to sleep instantly in my hand, and sat on me for hours dozing on and off. Something was wrong obviously. It was cold out, so I assumed she was confused and hungry from sleeping inside and finding no food outside, so I figured feed and nurse her back up and let her go somewhere safe to hibernate for the winter (I have a few outbuildings she could be in for all I care).

Fast forward a few weeks, shes happy, seems healthy, doesn't sleep in my hands anymore, eats lots of organic salmon perch and earthworms, but she is pooping funny. It's white most of the time, I thought I saw red a few times but I assumed it was fish skin, but today there was a good drop of very red blood. This was four days after a large meal, I accidentally fed her too much thinking she would stop when full, she just ate all of it. Shes pooped most of it out, this was probably the last of it and it was mostly blood.

Only other thing worth mentioning was felt something pop when she crawled through my hands a few times, but there are no lumps and no signs of trauma, and everything feels "normal" if i feel her looking for a problem.

I will probably take her to a vet tommorrow, but in NY I am pretty sure it's illegal for me to care for her, am I risking any problems? What should I do?
Thanks!

[Stefan-A]

It's probably nothing to worry about. Farmed salmon and trout are fed substances that turn their flesh red and when snakes eat them, that substance passes through and makes the feces red.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakesies08/redpoop1.jpg

[drache]

yeah - and the popping sound when you pass the snake through your fingers - it's around the bottom of the lung area - sort of a gurgely popping - that's normal too
if your snake is acting normal, it's probably fine
good job getting the little one fed btw - lucky little guy to turn up at your house
oh - and no vet I know would report you for a garter
welcome to the forum

[jere000]

Also there is no lega; issues i thhought the smae ting but found out garters are not relly caared about basically you can take as many as you want out of the wild.

[guidofatherof5]

When my snakes eat salmon their stool is usually more pink/orange then red. Since you've a Vet. visit coming up it would be a very good idea to have your snake checked for internal parasites. Best of luck and keep us informed.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Also there is no lega; issues i thhought the smae ting but found out garters are not relly caared about basically you can take as many as you want out of the wild.

that's an unwise statement to make, seeing as it's no good to take "as many as you want" out of the wild. While I am not opposed to taking the occasional specimen, I am opposed to viewing nature as a jar labeled "free snakes, take all you want!". That kind of stuff goes on a lot in florida and I wish it would stop!

I did do some digging though and found this (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/vertchecklist0907.pdf) which allows you to view the legal status of all species in new york state, and eastern garters as well as most others are listed as unprotected.

[confused]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I would love to keep her, but I got this in the mail after asking about a license for her after I found her.


"You are not allowed to keep native species of wildlife as pets in New York, this would include captive bred specimens even if they came outside the state. There are several species of Garter Snake that do not occur in New York, that you could have as a pet, as long as they are not listed Endangered or Threatened by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. For a listing of native species of snake to New York state please visit our Web page at New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (http://www.dec.state.ny.us) .transfer it to somewhere outside the state or give it to someone who is licensed for possession of native wildlife. I would start with local colleges and nature centers.



Chris Schiralli
Fish and Wildlife Tech 1
NYS DEC Special Licenses Unit
(518) 402-8990 phone
(518) 402-8925 fax
cdschira@gw.dec.state.ny.us email
Special License Unit Website: Special Licenses - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation (http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/359.html)

So, she shouldn't be my pet as far as I can tell, and I'm worried about trying to get care for her, it is cold outside already, I am near Ithaca. I wish she could be cared for by me, but, I really don't want fish and game after me for trying to rehab a dying animal. I'll post a pic or two later.

[MasSalvaje]

I did do some digging though and found this (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/vertchecklist0907.pdf) which allows you to view the legal status of all species in new york state, and eastern garters as well as most others are listed as unprotected.

I just wanted to point out that although it does list the garters as unprotected federally, it lists them as GN in the state laws.




GS, GN

Game species are defined as “big game”, “small game” or “game bird”


species in ECL 11-0103. In the checklist, GS indicates that there are seasons


set for the species when they may be legally hunted. GN indicates that, while

classified under the law as a game species, there are no seasons set and the


species may not be hunted or taken at any time in New York.



(bold italics added)


I was a little confused about the link Shannon posted and the e-mail response "Confused" received, so I looked into it a little more.

-Thomas

[confused]

I forgot, two week wait at the herp friendly vet (who may very well disapprove as they are a government funded facility, no idea, I'm new to this, I was hoping you guys knew what would happen), so that seems kind of iffy, at least anytime soon. There are no local animal rescues I have found that want her, not that she really needs rescue anymore it seems, (though I'd like her to have a once over before release). What's the weather need to be for her to survive on release? I'm going to miss her, though she seems to like me less every day, bit me today for the first time. Fed her a snack yesterday too! I hope thats a good sign.

Something still seems off though, she almost seemed like she had a hard time eating today, took her three long trys to get a significant amount of food down, the pieces were positioned badly everytime, so I kept cutting smaller than she was used to until she got it. She seemed to have the shivers at one point, almost in excitement and frustration, I set the food dish down, 2nd or 3rd time, and blew on it so smell would go toward her, she raced around the cage shivering looking for it... it was odd.

I used to work wild animal rehab down south. No idea why, it's built into me, I just hate seeing anything not make it with someone watching.

So shes not on the native to NY list, right? :D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/nich0lai/snakey.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I really don't want fish and game after me for trying to rehab a dying animal. I'll post a pic or two later.

You of course have have to make the final call on keeping the snake or not. I don't know how your fish and game people are but I would think they have more pressing matter to attend to. An indiviual keeping a Garter snake probably doesn't rank too high on their priority list.
It sounds like releasing it might be a death sentence at this point.
Looking forward to seeing a picture. Best of luck.

[confused]

I feel you Guido. Thank you. However NY is insane. The health and human services just went after one of my neighbors for selling wild picked mushrooms. Apparently there must be someone from the government who approves the sale of said mushrooms as safe, but there is no one in the position qualified to approve his mushrooms on demand, nor is there any plans on creating this position just for this guy and maybe one or two other people who wild pick and sell, so he was fined and shut down. I think I heard this is the same in NY for a license for wild animals, you have to take a class, however there is no one who teaches the class. Or maybe I read it on here about another state, its been a long day.

[Elliot_H]

New York is pretty crazy with its laws. I just moved to Utah and it seems like they have a better system for collection of wildlife. Growing up I had countless garter snakes that I kept until my parents made me release them. Like others said there are usually more serious matters for them to tend to rather than spend resources on a single garter. If it were a rattlesnake or a massasauga you might worry about getting in trouble haha.

[KITKAT]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I would love to keep her, but I got this in the mail after asking about a license for her after I found her.



So, she shouldn't be my pet as far as I can tell, and I'm worried about trying to get care for her, it is cold outside already, I am near Ithaca. I wish she could be cared for by me, but, I really don't want fish and game after me for trying to rehab a dying animal. I'll post a pic or two later.

Ask the same office if there is any provision for a "scientific collection permit" as there is in Ohio. Here, if you can prove you are doing research, even as simple as observation for publishing a "Note", then you can apply for that permit. You might also search for a reptile rescue in NY, and ask them how they handle rehab of wild snakes that are found in houses... etc.

[Elliot_H]

If you are by Ithaca then you are by Cornell which may take it. I looked into finding a reptile rescue around that area (I grew up in Cortland) and had absolutely no luck. The closest reptile rescue I've heard of was around NYC.

[confused]

Snake is not pooping blood anymore, it's just white material. Vet can see her in two weeks, I'm still feeling out everything else. She has stopped eating now, no interest really, I have never met such a finicky creature before. Maybe it's shed time, but her eyes are clear.

[drache]

The closest reptile rescue I've heard of was around NYC.yup - this one - Sean Casey Animal Rescue: Home (http://scarnyc.org/)
it's the one around the corner from me


Snake is not pooping blood anymore, it's just white material. Vet can see her in two weeks, I'm still feeling out everything else. She has stopped eating now, no interest really, I have never met such a finicky creature before. Maybe it's shed time, but her eyes are clear.
the white stuff is pee
the red stuff was probably from the salmon
at this time of the year most of them become finicky because in the wild they stop eating to prepare for brumation
a vet visit is a good idea anyhow

oh - and fish and wildlife will not come after you - they're underfunded and busy enough with actual morons
if you were per chance reported (unlikely), the worst that will happen is that they'll take the snake, give you a warning, and the snake will end up right in my neighbourhood, where my local rescue guy will end up shaking his head over the fact that he has to host a garter pretty much indefinitely because it can't be released and because of the laws he can't adopt it out