As you may have noticed...

[dashnu]

I have been absent...

For those of you who are wondering whats up with me (maybe not many of ya.. but i did meet some great people on here ;)...

I am not legally allowed to keep garters in Maine. There really is no way MIFW is going to change their mind on this (I have tried and tried and tried was denied a permit for educational reasons even :p).. The species is native thats that...

sooo as much as i hate it I am parting ways with all my garters. I figured if i keep them this time next year I would have well over 30 illegal snakes... They are still my favorite critter with such personality and spunk and will be missed.

This is why you might have seen my ads on here....

[sirtalis01]

that sucks man...some laws are pointless

[guidofatherof5]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Can you keep non-native?

[dashnu]

The people who force government to make the laws are stupid... Somebody thought it would be "cool" to have Northern Pike in one of our lakes.... now its wiping out the native fish population...

Guess they don't want to mess with nature.

[dashnu]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Can you keep non-native?

Nothing Thamnophis period :(

[guidofatherof5]

So, even non-native are banned.
That's crazy. Wait, it's government, that's normal.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Nothing Thamnophis period :(
thats freaking stupid.....do they allow other snakes in the pet stores???? how dumb can they be???

[dashnu]

hey Don, yea we have a rather large unrestricted list now. A bunch was added to it about 3 months ago. I was hoping thams would be one..

[Stefan-A]

Nothing Thamnophis period :(
None of the 35 species?

[ConcinusMan]

Jeez, that's ridiculous! I mean c'mon. Thams are genus, not a species. I think I would be looking deeper into the fine print on that law.

I lived in San Diego for a few years in the 1980's and I think at the time it was a CA state law that you couldn't keep a (specifically reptiles) SPECIES that was native to the state, and collecting of any native species is illegal without a permit too. (I collected anyway, but always released them eventually) They gave me a bunch of crap too and wouldn't budge. I lived in Navy housing, subject to unannounced inspections. Once they saw my CA kingsnake, I was told it was not a problem with housing rules but was against state law, and I was told to remove the snake immediately. I didn't do it. I fought it. Turns out, I had proof that the snake was purchased in WA state, and was captive bred and a beloved family pet for over 10 years that I had no intention of parting with. Turns out there was a small loophole and that my snake was legal to keep with a small annual permit fee. Of course, I had to do some legal homework and present my evidence, so it wasn't easy but I wasn't about to give up my baby without a fight.

I think I would dig deeper into the language of the law if you haven't already done that. I don't think they can ban an entire genus just because a few species of that genus are found in the state. If the law is worded to be species specific, (say that five times fast) keep your garters that are obviously, unmistakeably NOT found in Maine(get rid of all sirtalis regardless of subspecies) and get documentation or expert opinion (usually free) as to their specific species. Many university professors and such would be glad to do that for free. Also, make sure who the law applies to. In WA it's legal to collect and keep native garter snakes, but it's NOT legal for pet stores to sell species that are native to the state. If the Maine law says it's illegal to keep any non-native species that is likely to survive if released, (like CA laws) then you're screwed. You might find a way out so that you can keep at least some of them. I'm just saying, there is a way to fight it if you care too. If it's too much trouble, then that is your choice. Family takes priority above a snake in any case.

I think there's a chance that if you have some non-sirtalis Thams, and can prove it, that perhaps you can keep them. The ban on ALL thamnophis only applies to the pet trade in many states. Just because Thams are not listed on your allowed list, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a way to keep non-native Thams legally even if they are banned from pet stores in the state.

[Calift]

I'm not saying to commit a crime and keep the snakes, but I certainly would have a tough time selling all of mine! Would anyone really know if you had thamnophis in your house? I doubt an officer is going to be able to id a snake, let alone care about garters....

But you have my sympathy and I'll keep an eye out for your ads (if you must cave and part with them :()....

[jitami]

Wow, Brett, so sorry to hear this...

[drache]

Brett, I'm so sorry to hear this
you must be so bummed

[GarterGeek]

Thamnophis - A species!? How is it that we have people making laws about issues they don't know anything about? :mad:

I'm so sorry for you. You have my sympathy. :(

[Stefan-A]

Thamnophis - A species!? How is it that we have people making laws about issues they don't know anything about? :mad:
I recently heard a story about a monitor getting classified as a "venomous tree-climbing alligator", so...

The problem is global. No matter what country and political system, it's always the people with the least knowledge that get to make the laws.

[dashnu]

I have had several communications via phone & email with a couple of the guys at MIFW. One guy proved to be very helpful however he of course was the one with "no pull" so to say. He informed me that I was not allowed to keep anything from the genus Thamnophis.

I am able to apply for permits and tried for two types but like I said was even turned down a permit for educational reasons. I cant get any further with this without help from a lawyer and that is something i just can not afford now with this crap economy. The buzz around here is they will not even look at the permit unless it was sent from a layer.

In Maine we have a list of "Unrestricted Reptiles & Amphibains" if it is not listed on there it can not be keep without a permit. Simple as that species or genus.

[guidofatherof5]

Well, I won't be moving to Maine anytime soon.

[Stefan-A]

I have had several communications via phone & email with a couple of the guys at MIFW. One guy proved to be very helpful however he of course was the one with "no pull" so to say. He informed me that I was not allowed to keep anything from the genus Thamnophis.

I am able to apply for permits and tried for two types but like I said was even turned down a permit for educational reasons. I cant get any further with this without help from a lawyer and that is something i just can not afford now with this crap economy. The buzz around here is they will not even look at the permit unless it was sent from a layer.

In Maine we have a list of "Unrestricted Reptiles & Amphibains" if it is not listed on there it can not be keep without a permit. Simple as that species or genus.
It's a real shame.

[Snakers]

wow pointless..............absolutely im not much of a rule breaker myself and i know we want to set good examples for our kids but in this situation id keep them in my house somewhere safe its not like the government's going to be knocking on our door saying GIVE ME YOUR GARTER SNAKES!!!!but thats what i would do..................................

[dashnu]

wow pointless..............absolutely im not much of a rule breaker myself and i know we want to set good examples for our kids but in this situation id keep them in my house somewhere safe its not like the government's going to be knocking on our door saying GIVE ME YOUR GARTER SNAKES!!!!but thats what i would do..................................

I thought about this (and have been doing it for a few years now) but I am trying to start up a business and that business deals with reptiles and supplies. I do not want to put that at risk :(

[GarterGeek]

I recently heard a story about a monitor getting classified as a "venomous tree-climbing alligator", so...

The problem is global. No matter what country and political system, it's always the people with the least knowledge that get to make the laws.

If it wasn't such a serious problem, I would probably laugh. What's worse is that most people actually think that those in charge know what they're doing. :( I had someone (a very nice open-to-snakes-person) ask me whether my baby snakes were weened off their mother's milk yet. :o

[Stefan-A]

If it wasn't such a serious problem, I would probably laugh. What's worse is that most people actually think that those in charge know what they're doing. :( I had someone (a very nice open-to-snakes-person) ask me whether my baby snakes were weened off their mother's milk yet. :o
To be fair, according to the owner, they were trying to find something to charge the him with and there were no laws against keeping lizards. :D

[mustang]

Hey thattle show em!!! Get a big lizard like a tegu!!!!!!

[ConcinusMan]

To be fair, according to the owner, they were trying to find something to charge the him with and there were no laws against keeping lizards. :D

Wording. It's all in the wording. A poorly written law that required that classification to make it apply to that particular lizard.

I know that African clawed frogs have been banned as a pet in many places, and WA followed suit with the CA ban, but I still find them in pet stores, usually as albinos. My point is, they call them "Albino domestic frogs" and get away with it.

The OP is stuck with a well written law in a strict state, that has a specific list of ALLOWED species. No room for creative wording there.