Steve's Snake Observations [Archive]

guidofatherof5

10-02-2009, 01:01 PM

Being in my 50’s now I’m out of the fast lane and kind of an Old School guy. I’ve been wearing glasses for the last 25 years and said I would never wear contacts. That all change last night. Bare with me, there is a reason for this innocuous information
After arriving home wearing my contacts I went into the big snake room. I notice a couple of sheds in one of the enclosures and knew that my Big Girl had finally shed. A number of the radixes were out cruising around when I opened it up. Instead of the usual greetings I get from these guys, they headed for cover. I then saw a number of faces staring at me. One was my Big Girl, who usually greets me first. She started out to me but stopped and pulled back when I reached towards her. She was very tentative as she approached and was sampling the air more than usual. I’m not sure how to describe it but she seemed confused or puzzled. As she got a better look and smell of me she came quickly towards me. Once she had assured herself it was me, things were fine. The others who had been watching from shelter quickly came out after she was up on my arm. They were still apprehensive and were doing some heavy tongue flicking on approach. This has never happened before. The only thing I can attribute it to is the fact I didn’t have my glasses on. I have always worn my glasses when I’m working with them. This time they noticed something different about my face. Facial cues must be something they use to recognize safe from unsafe. It’s also interesting that the other snakes didn’t come out until the first snake wasn’t being killed by the stranger. This is just another interesting observation of these wonderful animals.
It’s interesting that even in this captive situation they use 2 of their senses in friend or foe identification. Of course, in the wild I’m sure when they see or just smell a human they might automatically recognize it as a danger.

I remember a situation that occurred in Omaha that was definitely different. While out herping, I came to a very large railroad tie retaining wall. I stood in front of it and stared, knowing it was prime garter snake habitat. While I stood there I notice approximately 10 little radix faces looking at me from different locations in the wall. I could get within inches of them as they would simply move farther back into the cracks and crevices they were living in. They didn’t hide out of sight but simply moved into a more safe position and continued to watch me. If I did reach for them they would hide out of sight somewhere in the wall.
In their home they apparently felt safe enough to continue watching me instead of hiding. This really brought home to me the fact these little snakes are very curious about what goes on around them.

gregmonsta

10-03-2009, 05:07 AM

Wow :D great observation.

Mommy2many

10-03-2009, 07:24 AM

Excellent Observation! These little guys have alot going on in their heads.

CRIKEY!

10-03-2009, 05:37 PM

I knew they had some intelligence behind those serious eyes. :D

guidofatherof5

10-07-2009, 10:26 PM

As most of you know the T.radix Ranch has seen its share of births this season. I have a number of large groups of Summer/Fall babies. I also have some very early Spring babies(radixes). As the latest babies arrived the older one were put more on automatic pilot. In that, when feeding them I didn't do an actual head count to make sure everyone was eating. This was my mistake. Tonight, as I looked in on an older group of well established babies I was shocked to see one in terrible shape. Very thin and in need of attention. I immediately pulled the little scrub out for some TLC. I placed in a feeding container(http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6122-feeding-container.html (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6122-feeding-container.html))and it started eating right away.
All I can figure is that this snake wouldn't come out to eat when the rest of them would. For whatever reason it refused to partake in feeding time. It's almost like it was a failure to thrive situation but in a well established eater.
I'm not sure "Failure to Thrive" is the right explaination for this with but I'm at a loss to know how to explain it. This group(Speckle's babies) were very well established as eaters and I notice no difficulties at all with any of them. Suddenly this one snake shows up in the group.
The thing that makes it even harder to understand is the fact it started eating the second it was offered food. The same food that is offered to the group. For some reason this little scrub decided to stop eating with the group to a point of being starved.
This forces me to re-evalute my feeding proceedures.
Has anyone else had this occur with any of their groups?

GarterGeek

10-08-2009, 07:38 AM

I keep my two male garters together. Generally I remove them from their enclosure to feed them; however, they had some bouts of finicky-ness during the summer and I had to resort to feeding them together in their enclosure. One of them would not eat if the other one was near it. I think I even observed some sort of "dominance-like" behavior in the other snake. Whenever the non-dominant snake would approach the food, the other snake would turn sharply and place it's head in front of it. The dominant snake would do this everytime the other snake tried to move forward. You know how dominant wolves cut other wolves off from food with their bodies? - it was similar to that.

I'm not sure if I was just imagining it or what...Is it possible that it really was dominant behavior? Reptiles don't usually from hiarchies; although, didn't velociraptors roam in "packs?"

I'm sorry - this isn't really revelant to your problem. It just reminded me of my observation. Perhaps your snake is at the bottom of the "pack". :confused::o

guidofatherof5

10-08-2009, 09:44 AM

I'm sorry - this isn't really revelant to your problem. It just reminded me of my observation. Perhaps your snake is at the bottom of the "pack". :confused::o

No need to apologize, that is the kind of observations this thread is all about.
I have seen exactly what you described. I have also seen that behavior fail when there is a large number of snakes moving towards the food dish. The dominate acting snake tries to keep the others way but is overwelmed but the sheer numbers.
Another interesting thing I've seen is revenge like behavior when someone steals food. I've seen the victim chase the thief down and rather than try to steal the food back they attack them by biting their back. I can understand this behavior if they are attempting to get the food back but when they are not even close to the food it sure looks like payback. It must be part of the feeding response since at no other time have I ever observed any of my radixes being aggressive towards each other. They crawl over and under each other, block each other from going in the hide and never show any anger. They simply tolerate what the other snake is doing.
Too bad people can't be more like Garter snakes. Of course, this would make dinner time a blood bath.:D

count dewclaw

10-08-2009, 11:08 AM

I don't think it is a matter of what food you offered. I think this little one was at the bottom of the pecking order and just didn't get to the food.

mtolypetsupply

10-08-2009, 11:58 PM

Steve. your "wearing glasses" post, and all your other posts, always make me smile, no matter what is going on in "mi vida loca". :)

I have two Pugets, and one will NOT eat when the other is around. And the other is a PIG and wouldn't leave a fish scale for the tiny one. they're 1.1 and I'm not sure anymore who is who, but when I take "Biggie" out, "Tiny" will eat. Thankfully, "Biggie" has readily adjusted to tub-feeding, so I can get some groceries into Tiny. Oh, yeah, and OF COURSE Tiny only eats feeder guppies, so I have to make the 20 mi round trip to feed Tiny.

ARRRRGH!!!!

And there is a human who acts like a garter, my daughter is as picky an eater as is Tiny!!!!!

guidofatherof5

10-09-2009, 08:46 PM

One of my older baby groups(Spot's last,born April 17,09) were on the feeding rotation. This has been the most relaxed and well behaved group I have ever had. I put the food dish in and they came a running. The big difference for this group was the way they ate. Not one single fight or disturbance. Everyone took their food in a controlled manor. No one did the grab-and-go. Everyone sat around the food dish and ate like civilized little radixes.
Their mother(Spot, God rest her soul) was the same way, very calm and relaxed.
I have to be honest. I had to look back in my threads to find the birth date on these guys. In doing so, I was brought to tears as I saw pictures of Spot before the cancer took her. She is missed here at the Ranch but not forgotten.
Watching her kids grow helps to get over the loss of such a fine snake.
I'm glad to see her demeanor was passed on to the next generation of awesome radixes.
LeAnn(count dewclaw), you're going to be getting a couple from this group. These are some mighty fine radixes.

count dewclaw

10-13-2009, 07:24 PM

LeAnn(count dewclaw), you're going to be getting a couple from this group. These are some mighty fine radixes.

Oops, somehow missed this post. Thanks, I'm sure they are special. Spot was such a pretty radix.

guidofatherof5

10-22-2009, 01:07 PM

I saw something happen today that I've never observed before. Let me back up a little before I move forward with what I saw.
Last night I found a baby radix on the floor in the big snake room. It's one of the wild babies that's been delivered somewhere in my basement. It was obvious she needed some water and food. I placed her in a small ziplock container a gave her a spray of water. She was very thirsty.
This morning I introduced some pieces of earthworm and baby nightcrawler. She showed no interest at all. 4 hours later the worms remained. I decided to make a guppy run so I bought 50 from the local pet store. I threw about 8 guppies in with a little sauce(guppy water). She once again showed no interest. While feeding some other slow eaters I came across a little scrub that needed fed. Not having another container close I opted to put this snake in with the new found wild one. The second I dropped this snake in it smelled the fish and reacted by actively looking for a guppy. To my surprise the wild snake also started looking for food.
This couldn't have been a food response since the wild one had the same food available to her and for a much longer time.
I think it was a "competition response", that's what I'm calling it. In light of no competition for the food, the one snake didn't feel a need or a want to eat. Once a competitor was introduced then there was a need/want. Both snakes eat their fill of guppies and worms and are resting now. This was a new observation for me and will change the way I attack this non-eater problem.
I'm beginning to think these are some complicated little creatures if you look hard enough. I love it when they teach me something new.

Charis

10-22-2009, 01:57 PM

We had a box turtle (slightly off topic) for about 1 1/2 years that was kind of the same way. He ate real good, all kinds of food, for the first 6 months or so. Then he just pared back to where he'd only eat nightcrawlers & peaches & not very much of those. We finally turned him back into the pet store because he was skinny & always seemed to be half in brumation. They put him in with a bunch of other turtles, a different type so he was easy to pick out, and just 3 days later we went back in & he'd gained a lot of weight & looked way more active. We decided that he just needed to have the competition for food. Where garters are a little like turtles, I think, in that they share a limited range with way more garters all together than most other snakes might be why they are used to & need to compete. If that makes sense?

guidofatherof5

11-06-2009, 12:19 PM

Here's one for you.
While Speckle was giving birth I would get into her enclosure to check on her and retrieve newborns. In most incidents Speckle would come over to me when she saw me. She would then try to climb on me. She would go up my arm and rest on my shoulders. At one point she stayed there for 15 minutes. To be honest I kept a close eye on her back end since I thought for sure she was going to deliver babies on me. Some of the times she came to me, I would just pick her up and rest her in my arms. Once she was in my arms she would stop moving.
Now, it could have been the warmth of my body but that doesn't explain why she didn't just stay in her heated hide area. Also, if she were just trying to get away or out, why didn't she try to get off of me and down to the floor.
I can't help but think there was a purpose to her resting on me. It was doing her some good. Some calming effect in a stressful time. In comparison, my old dog would come over to me and interact. Whether it was a play fight or just sitting beside me while I watched TV. She was getting something out of the contact.
I'm not sure how else to interpret what happened. I spend a lot of time interacting with my snakes and I believe they get used to people and get something out of the interaction other than food.
I suppose in simplistic terms it could be said that I'm am just part of their environment and they are just adapting to what is presented.
I believe and feel their is more to this life they are living. Many of you on the forum have seen and made that connection I'm taking about. No, not with every snake but you have had those special ones come into your lives and you knew there was more than just instinctive responses happening.
I know that I suffer/enjoy from a severe case of Anthropomorphism and hope I continue to suffer from it as I feel it lets me get the most enjoyment out of this relationship I have with my snakes. I also think it does them the most good.
Thanks for listening to my ramble.

gregmonsta

11-06-2009, 12:41 PM

I know my snakes love me back :rolleyes: or like me back at the very least :D

drache

11-06-2009, 01:06 PM

those of my snakes I interact with on a regular basis definitely perceive me as an acceptable place to hang out, and also prefer me over other humans

Steven@HumboldtHerps

11-17-2009, 02:26 PM

I just have to say we need to be careful not to anthropomorphize the situations we experience with our slithery friends.

On the other hand, I totally acknowledge garter behavior to be somewhat of a mystery regarding social nature. Many species are very "social" (careful!), existing in communal pockets... I have found our NW CA ordinoides and sirtalis to be especially communal. The social behaviors of these garters is exciting to observe. They are indeed inquisitive. Those diurnal eyes! I have had them check me out as well. These snakes are very curious.

I also find the notion that competition inciting feeding behavior absolutely amazing. I guess, in a captive environment, feeding scenarios where there are more than one snake in an enclosure, behaviors can be a 2-way toss-up: either competition gets everybody in on the hunt, or it results in plays of dominance where not all get to eat.

drache

11-21-2009, 01:40 PM

not sure how to put it any differently, but I do want to be clear
personally I don't perceive a preference of one thing over another (food, temp, environment, etc) to be an exclusively human trait, and I do hope that my perception of my snakes having apparent preferences is not being construed as a form of anthropomorphism
but love . . . ? now that's an entirely human concept and as such not even culturally universal in it's meaning, not to mention all the different forms it takes
for example: I do love our cats and Mikhaila is convinced that they love each other because they do a lot of allo-grooming, whereas I believe that they do it because they're siblings and grew up together. I also don't believe that the fact that they groom me, or suddenly run up to me and touch my cheek with a non-claw paw, is evidence that they "love" me. I do think that they've got some basic social intelligence and are returning some of my strange human gestures because we're part of the same pride (or some such thing) and perhaps because I'm the alpha cat. That's not to say that I don't love when they do that and the sense of companionship I derive from it

charles parenteau

11-21-2009, 03:10 PM

Good observation Steve !!I always wear my sunglasse rapalla!!and Garter snake dont like it ,wild garter usuallly calm down when i take it off.
I cant handle any of my garter with my sunglasses because they freak out!!It make me look like an alien with my big eyes they don't like it.

Some becomes crazy when they saw my camera lense.

guidofatherof5

11-27-2009, 08:47 AM

*Strange Shed*

Last night I cleaned out and scrubbed down one of my big enclosures. I have these girls on paper towels so I can get a visual on fecals. This group was going to go without water for the night since their dish was in the dish washer.
This morning I popped the lights on and looked into that enclosure. I saw Speckle shedding. She's been due to shed of the last couple of days. She was about 1/4 of the way done so I reached in to help. At first I didn't notice but then I realized the shed was very wet. As if she had just soaked in her water dish. Most, if not all my snakes soak before a shed. The only problem with this situation is the fact she had no water to soak in. Remember I had taken the dish out the night before,
Now, when I say the shed was wet I mean wet and sticky. I've help many snakes shed and have felt this before but that was after a good soaking.
So, how'd the shed get wet? Had she soaked the day before and just retained the moisture? That much moisture! Or did she sweat(the only word I could think of to describe this). As I stated before I've helped many snakes shed and this felt just like a snake that had just gotten out of the water dish. Maybe this is normal and I've just never observed it before.
I read somewhere that snakes release a chemical to help during the shedding process. Could that be the wet I'm feeling on the shed?
What are your thoughts?

ConcinusMan

11-28-2009, 03:23 AM

Condensation. I've seen garters take advantage of condensation. It has to do with the temperature and humidity of course. It's conceivable that a snake (especially if there is a localized heat source) can warm themselves up, and move to a cooler, humid area of the tank, OR cool themselves down and wait for the temperature to go up, resulting in condensation forming on their bodies. I've seen it before. A soaking wet snake, with no water around. The water came from the air!

Think about it. How did that cold glass get so wet that it is dripping water from it's surface? The answer is that the glass is cold, and the surrounding air is warm, and humid. works in reverse too. Warm snake, cool moist air.

guidofatherof5

11-28-2009, 09:22 AM

ConcinusMan

11-28-2009, 11:15 AM

You'd be surprised. Besides that, there should be at least 50% I would think. If there isn't, there should be. Who knows, maybe it was just something that came from the vent, but I'm thinking condensation. I've went to visit my garters early in the morning and found them with a bit of mist on them. (condensation) Even though every thing else was dry.

guidofatherof5

01-21-2010, 08:34 PM

The other day I was working with in my TLC enclosure. This group was a blending from my other groups. These were the snakes that needed a little more attention than the others. Since then, they have all grown and no longer need that TLC.
My boy Krinkleback lives in this group. He's the radix with a severe case of scoliosis. I pulled my boy out for an emergency shed since he wasn't able to shed on his own this time. Working with him during a shed is a pleasure. He sits still while I do all the work. He shows no concerns about being held under the running water, the turning and bending to get the shed off. After I finished the job he got to soak for a few minutes. I have to hold his head out of the water as he can't balance himself well enough. When I was done I decided to let him live with a different group.
I introduced him to the group and left. A few hours later I went to check on him. My guess was that he was under the main hide where everyone else usually stays. This enclosure has 3 different hides. 2 box hides and 1 branch hide. The small box hide and branch hides are very rarely used. I was excited about Krinkleback making some new friends and the fact he was in a more normal situation now.
I looked in and saw no one out, so I opened up and lifted the big box hide. I expected to find everyone under this hide and my little man blended in with everyone. I was shocked to find my poor little man by himself, alone. Everyone was at the other 2 hide location. I pulled my man out and scolded the other for not welcoming him in. I rousted everyone from their hides and put Krinckleback back in. A few hours later I checked and the main body of snakes had moved into the big hide with him.
Very weird situation.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkler13.jpg

ConcinusMan

01-22-2010, 01:51 AM

Holy crap! Jeez Steve. You've got the freakiest mutilated snakes I've ever seen! Good grief, what caused that?

guidofatherof5

01-22-2010, 02:32 AM

Holy crap! Jeez Steve. You've got the freakiest mutilated snakes I've ever seen! Good grief, what caused that?

Probably genetic. Scoliosis! Scoliosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoliosis)
Wish you could meet him. He is very cool. When he looks at you, he really looks. Not just a glance but a deep look. Hard to explain in words. There's just something special about this snake. When I take him into my schools he is the hit of the presentation. Once in a great while I'll get a student who will say "He has scoliosis just like me".

ConcinusMan

01-22-2010, 02:39 AM

Wow, that's precious.

salzar

01-22-2010, 08:07 AM

hi , I do not have a garter, but 3 small brown snakes. they all are very social, do act funny when I do not have my glasses on or if my hair is up as aposed to being long and flowing , they seem to not reconize me. they also do not like it when I have a patterned shirt on, they love solid colors ,like tan, brown, and green, like the out doors , striped and plaids freek them out! and they also know its my when they smell coffee on my breath in the mornings , also they react to the vibrations of my voice as well. all true!! bye
michelle

guidofatherof5

01-22-2010, 08:37 AM

guidofatherof5

02-22-2010, 07:59 PM

Here's one that has slipped by me until today. I've seen it a thousand times but never really saw it.
Here's what I'm talking about. When I open an enclosure my kids come out to see me. If my hands are in inside then they must be checked for food. If no food is found then they look into my eyes with this "where's the food" look. Most of us have seen it. It's an expression on the face. Mostly done with the eyes.
Why do they look us in the eyes/face? Why don't they just keep staring at the hands, that's where the food comes from.
It's just one of the little things that happens when we engage them but I never really saw it until today.
They are such interesting animals. I wish I knew what they were thinking.
It's just my opinion but I think there is more going on than just automated responses. Maybe I just spend too much time with them.:D

gregmonsta

02-23-2010, 04:24 AM

100% Steve ;) ... until we can actually communicate with animals the statement of them not being as aware/not having emotions/not having the relevant cognitive processing power is absurd in my eyes :rolleyes: ... it's non-scientific to say otherwise :p all things are relative.

Stefan-A

02-23-2010, 05:01 AM

:rolleyes: Pick one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

Obviously snakes don't have the facial muscles to make expressions, especially not ones that are intended to be interpreted by humans.

We don't need to be able to communicate with them, either. It can be tested. We can find out which part of the brain does what job and we can find out whether a species has it and whether it's working on a specific individual.

As for the awareness thing, awareness is just a matter of gathering information and the ability to process it. Both can be tested.

gregmonsta

02-23-2010, 10:39 AM

I don't believe you :p too much Disney as a child :rolleyes: .... lol, I know ..... but I like to believe that despite that they still have emotional states :D

guidofatherof5

02-23-2010, 05:48 PM

I don't believe you :p too much Disney as a child :rolleyes: .... lol, I know ..... but I like to believe that despite that they still have emotional states :D

It is a lot more fun and I believe(can't prove anything) they do have more emotions than the basic survival package.

Stefan,
I wish you could spend some time on the Ranch and get to know a few of my buddies.:)

guidofatherof5

02-24-2010, 09:15 AM

Take a look at this picture. Very cute. It shows my adult female Rita with some of her babies born last year. Nothing too interesting, right? Let me explain. Rita is in this enclosure until I can get another one built. I lifted the hide to check on everyone to find this group. When I say I was checking on everyone I meant the T.s.parietalis babies also. In this enclosure I house Rita's babies and a group of parietalis babies born about the same time.
The mystery is , where's the parietalis babies? This is the heated part of the enclosure and usually houses all the babies in a big group, radix and parietalis. Instead I find a mother with her babies and no others. What's with that.
They were only using about half the hide and as a rule they fill it otherwise.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/rita_and_kids.jpg

jitami

02-24-2010, 10:28 AM

I saw a new behavior out of my two hellions this morning. They're staring me down as I type, but that's nothing new... just a little unnerving at the moment :) Anyway, I've fed these two together more often than not and this morning laid down a tray of tillapia and f/t guppies. I don't know if it was the smell of the guppies or if these two are just a little more spazzy than usual because it's spring time, but they displayed exaggerated acts of agitation. Both came to the dish and then a bit of tail whipping ensued... rarely have I seen that... but then what really surprised me was the full body whipping around. The movement began in the back half of their body and whipped around almost like you would see in a mating ball, but by now they were on opposite sides of the tank. Whenever they'd get near each other again, the whipping would commence. Food in mouth, flailing rear part of their bodies. So strange for these two and something I hadn't seen before. At another point, they both approached the dish at the same time and one moved toward the other, open mouthed, but not striking, just moving with purpose toward the other while keeping his mouth open. This was efficiant at backing the other snake away from the food. I stay right here and watch them and my hand to the glass or opening the screen is enough to distract them, but this was a pretty wild feeding this morning! They're not starving, either. They last ate on Saturday. They're slowly finishing off the guppies now in their normal calm manner. Odd.

Oh, and where did I get f/t guppies you're probably wondering? I got sick of my fish tank and froze the inhabitants. This is the first feeding with them and I'd say they were readily accepted! lol For those of you who have feeder guppies available this may be an option for buying in quantity if you have no qualms about freezing them yourself. I put a small tub of guppies & water in the freezer, checked on them a little later and all were dead, then moved them to ice cube trays in small groups with a little water. Defrosted in a cup of warm water this morning. Not sure how humane, but if I can freeze a squeaky little pinky, I can freeze a fish...

guidofatherof5

02-24-2010, 11:00 AM

Tami,
You just described what happened to a large group I have. They have always been competitive but the last two feeding has been all out war. They were even biting each other. It wasn't a bite and release but a bit and hold on. These were head shots. The blood was flowing and I was about overwhelmed. Next feeding things will be different. I'm taking a number of feeding contained for the trouble makers.
I can see you enjoy watching your buddies. . Every once in awhile they throw a few curve balls at us. Things we've never seen.
I think mine can sense Spring is coming. Everyones out cruising more than normal and there is some pre-jiggy time activities going on.
I love Spring, not just inside but of course outside where I get to see the newcomers and some old friends.

jitami

02-24-2010, 11:32 AM

Thank goodness we didn't have any bites or blood. I was watching for it, though and wouldn't have been surprised. I did distract them once when I just didn't like the intense look one was giving the other. I think these two may get Shannon's speed feeding with tongs. They both eat better in their own tank from a dish, tho... we'll have to see how the next feeding goes.

They have been more animated lately, which I'm attributing to spring. Frisky little things. I'm relatively certain they are both male and are probably reaching sexual maturity this year, too. All's calm for now :)

guidofatherof5

02-24-2010, 12:02 PM

All's calm for now :)

Of course, bellies are full.:D

jitami

02-24-2010, 01:10 PM

Yep, and both are basking together peacefully for the most part. It doesn't take much to get the twitching started, tho. I set my coffee cup down a little while ago and got some twitches from the two knuckleheads. It's gotta be a springtime thing.

ConcinusMan

02-25-2010, 01:05 PM

guidofatherof5

03-15-2010, 08:02 PM

I've got another strange one for you.
Tonight, I took my girl(Big Girl) out of her enclosure for some one-on-one time. This isn't unusual in itself but how the other snakes from her enclosure reacted was. Big Girl cruised around my shoulders and down my arms as she usually does. Up a sweatshirt sleeve and then back out. She like to only stick her head out as I think the warmth from me is what she's after. While this was going on I looked into the enclosure she was from. All the remaining snakes were partially out of their hides and were watching my every move. This wasn't completely unusual for them but this time they seemed very intent on my every move. It was like they were watching Big Girl more than me, so I decided to put her back to see how they reacted. Once I put her back in they all retired to their hides.
Big Girl is the leader or that enclosure(my opinion) as I have seen her direct many of the snakes away from me when I'm feeding. This gives Big Girl first food and sometimes more food. She will direct them with a tail slap or a hard glare.
Tonight they seemed to be focused on her and seemed more at ease once she was put back in.

ConcinusMan

03-15-2010, 09:00 PM

So... I'm not sure I get it. what happened to the parietalis babies? Forgive me for being clueless but do we need to send out a search party or is rita slowly passing them back into the tank?

guidofatherof5

03-15-2010, 09:47 PM

So... I'm not sure I get it. what happened to the parietalis babies? Forgive me for being clueless but do we need to send out a search party or is rita slowly passing them back into the tank?

They are all doing well. The snakes are no longer self segregated.
All those babies have been switched to pinkies are are growing very well.

guidofatherof5

06-05-2010, 11:16 PM

Rhea's thread about moving her residents around made me think about a situation that occurred on the Ranch.
All my snakes are kept in groups. I have a group of adult radix sisters, 12 of them. They have spent their whole lives together. Feeding time had become World War III so I decided to break the group up. That was a mistake. They became two groups of hiders. They would come out but nothing like when they were together.
I had given each group their own 6 foot enclosure. Plenty of space to roam and climb. Did they take advantage of the situation, no. They for the most part stayed in their hides. When I would check on them I wasn't greeted with friendly snakes but I was ignored and given many hard stares.
This wasn't to my liking so while I had both groups pulled down for a cleaning I drilled a 2 1/4 inch whole in the side of each enclosure. Using a short piece of PVC pipe and 2 couplers I build a tunnel for them to travel through. If I want I can even cap off each end with a threaded plug. I placed both groups back in their clean homes and within a few minutes they were using the tunnel. It was like they were inspecting each others homes. A few hours later I checked in on them. Everyone was in one enclosure and under one hide. I guess these sisters enjoy each others company.
I won't ever try to break this group up again.

guidofatherof5

07-31-2010, 09:36 AM

This morning I was down in the big snake room posting a few things when I looked over at one of my large enclosures and saw my girl One Spot coming out from the hide. She came over to the end of the enclosure closest to me and stared at me while I typed. I have to be honest it was hard to concentrate. I think she was used her mind control powers on me. Just then my daughter Gabby came down. I asked her get into the enclosure and hand me One Spot. She opened it up and reached in for her and was immediately met with a strike. Gabby once again made a reach for her and was backed away by this annoyed big girl. I got up from my chair and picked her up without incident. Apparently she didn't want Gabby touching her. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. There are a number of big females radixes that don't like to be handle unless it's by me.
I think they like me.:D

guidofatherof5

08-18-2010, 10:12 PM

Ringing the dinner bell

It's the only thing I could think to call it.
For the last year or so I've been letting all the snakes in an enclosure know it was feeding time by blowing air across the top of the food in the direction of them. Whether it's pinkies or worms this always seems to get a response in the fact the snakes rush me to get some chow.
Tonight, I opened one of the large enclosures housing a group of my adult female radixes. They knew it was just a social call as I didn't have any food with me and didn't blow any air into their hide.
Being the instigator that I am I thought I would play a little joke on the girls. They were all looking out of the hide so I blew some air on them and got an immediate response. Most of them came right out to me.
So, what have I done here?
(A) Conditioned snake to think that air blowing on them means food.
(B) Conditioned snake to the scent of my breath blowing on them means food.
(C) A combination of A and B
(D) Really confused my snakes.
(E) Some of the above.
(F) None of the above.
What do you think?

Snakers

08-18-2010, 10:16 PM

guidofatherof5

08-18-2010, 10:23 PM

hmmmmmm............(C)even though a persons breath never really smells the same:D

You mean sweet and minty, right.:D

Snakers

08-18-2010, 10:24 PM

You mean sweet and minty, right.:D
some days..........:D:D:D:D

ConcinusMan

08-19-2010, 01:01 AM

My (Iowa albino) radixes have come to associate feeding time with ANY time I enter the room and they happen to be watching. They rush out all excited and "sniffing".

If I get very close to the glass tank, they really get into a frenzy. Jeez... they must be starving. It's been hours:rolleyes:

The second I start to slide that top (slide lock top reptile tank) Amy starts lunging into the air with her mouth open... as if to say "put it here"

I gotta tell you Steve, radixes are "something else" They are really entertaining characters.

Amy (is really a boy) is blind, or mostly blind so he just lunges at the air with mouth open. He has learned that food will come this way.:rolleyes:

I finally (just yesterday) got a trio of normal-looking possible hets.(for Iowa AND nebraska) They won't eat yet and seem quite nervous but I look forward to seeing how they fit in to the group and looking forward to learning about their individual personalities.:D

Radixes... quite entertaining and quite charming.:D

guidofatherof5

08-22-2010, 08:22 AM

Nice to hear Amy is doing so well. I agree with you on radixes being special. I'm so lucky to live in an area with such a high population.
It's been a long very hot Summer and the radixes have been staying under cover most of the time.
I'm sure they've been out in the early morning and late evening times but I don't venture out do to the flood mosquitoes(as I call them) we have in the area.

guidofatherof5

09-27-2010, 08:24 PM

Today I had a visitor to the Ranch.
The President of the Iowa Horological Society dropped by to pickup a rehabbed
Bull Snake and to checkout the Ranch.
While giving him a tour of the big snake room I opened an enclosure to show him the occupants.
I pointed to the male red phase radix and told him that the snake was a loaner from our mutual friend(Mark). He stuck his hand inside the enclosure to point at the male and Mr. Mansley rushed him and bit his finger.
You have to understand that Mr. Mansley is a very docile male and has never shown any signs of aggression.
Allen comment on the fact that he always gets bit by garter snakes.
I explained to him that he was a stranger invading Mr. Mansley's territory and he was just reminding him of that fact.
All my snakes were wary of the new person in the snake room.

guidofatherof5

10-09-2010, 01:48 AM

It's about 2:30 am and I can't get to sleep so I decided to make a security sweep in the big snake room.
As I walked by the enclosures I shined my flashlight in on them. As usual most all these diurnal snake were out milling about.
With one exception. Not a single concinnus was stirring. They were all in their hide where they belong. All the members of this enclosure will be getting a treat on Saturday.

I also found my girl Brownie out. She was sitting in a bench between two baby enclosures. I reached down and picked her up without incident. She says she told me she was going on an explore but I don't remember the conversation. She's a good girl so there will be no punishment for this infraction.:D

ConcinusMan

10-09-2010, 07:01 AM

Well Steve, the concinnus are growing babies. They need their sleep.:)

Speaking of growing, you're gonna freak when you see the group I'm sending monday. They're huge compared to the first group since they've been eating well since day one. Petco had a sale on their frozen rodents so I bought up a bunch yesterday. All the babies got a good stuffing of pinkies yesterday.:D

But yeah, everybody disappears in that enclosure just minutes before the timer shuts the lights off. And they all wake up and start moving around just minutes before the timer turns them back on! They know what time it is!

They know what time of day to expect food as well because I always feed them at nearly the same time (around 4-5pm when I get home from work) and there's a flurry of activity at that time when they become aware that I'm in the room. It's so cool to watch.

I'll miss having the big group of babies but I'll still have a handful of hold backs (including the two high black 3-stripers) to care for.

ae88weaver

10-12-2010, 10:09 AM

guidofatherof5

10-12-2010, 10:15 AM

I wish Freud and Maslow would just eat, let alone be conditioned :p Here I am getting ready for grad school (BA in psychology and getting my Masters of Social Work) yet I cannot condition my boys to eat or associate food with anything... Steve, do you take in any type of snake or only garters? And are a breeder? I am curious because I see your name come up in almost every thread I read and you seem very knowledgable (plus you have a snake ranch!)... Same with you ConcinnusMan...

The only snakes I don't take in are venomous. I have a strange attraction to Rattle Snake but know it's not something I will ever keep. With 5 kids still in the house, I won't risk it.
I do breed garters and hope to breed Bull snake and Gray Banded Kings next Spring.
Thanks for you compliment. Most of my knowledge has come from being a member of this forum.

guidofatherof5

10-20-2010, 12:14 PM

Today, I was working in one of my enclosure doing a refit to the hinge safety device. One of the females in the enclosure would not leave me alone. While I worked she kept climbing onto my hands. I would pick her up and move her to the other end of the enclosure only to have her return in a moment. It was comical to watch her do this time after time after time.
I started to get annoyed with her. Then I realized she was trying to tell me something. This is the group of females that routinely get carried over to the worm box to get a snack.
So, being the good pet that I am I carried her over to the worm box where she picked out a big crawler. After she ate it I returned her to the enclosure.
She was content to sit and watch me work, now.
They are so smart.

ConcinusMan

10-20-2010, 05:14 PM

My little ones do the same thing. As I'm trying to tong feed one of them, the others will climb up the tongs and get into my sleeve or crawl up my arm. It is annoying but so dang cute it's hard to get mad about it. And the adults... jeez. I can't even clean up a poop spot without them interfering. They are so curious.

mustang

11-15-2010, 05:01 PM

checker is smart...he associates my hand with big organism that touches me and runs...but he also has never pooped on a girl so i think he knows very well how to get a treat when ever in public lol

RedSidedSPR

11-15-2010, 06:37 PM

Ive always read that they barely use there eyes. Wow.

ssssnakeluvr

11-15-2010, 07:32 PM

they do have good eyesight...

Stefan-A

11-15-2010, 08:04 PM

they do have good eyesight...
Mine can spot a wiggling pinky from at least 3 meters away.

guidofatherof5

11-15-2010, 08:14 PM

I think they have very good eyesight. Maybe not far focased but able to spot movement. Close up I think they can see very well.

ConcinusMan

11-15-2010, 11:55 PM

I won't disagree but I've never had a blind snake before. Amy is wonderful, but quite blind I think.

zooplan

11-16-2010, 01:22 AM

Mine can spot a wiggling pinky from at least 3 meters away.
Mine frequently watch TV from a distance of 10 feet.

Stefan-A

11-16-2010, 07:08 AM

That's roughly the same distance, but the moving object is larger.

guidofatherof5

11-16-2010, 08:37 AM

My baby radixes seem more interested in TV then my adults.

zooplan

11-16-2010, 10:07 AM

That's roughly the same distance, but the moving object is larger.
My TV is definitely not moving !

ConcinusMan

11-16-2010, 11:58 AM

My baby radixes seem more interested in TV then my adults.

That's because Steve probably watches mostly Nick Jr.:p

guidofatherof5

11-16-2010, 12:11 PM

That's because Steve probably watches mostly Nick Jr.:p

You got a problem with Nick Jr.:mad::D

ConcinusMan

11-16-2010, 12:13 PM

Not at all. I'd rather watch that than most of the other garbage on TV these days:o

guidofatherof5

11-16-2010, 12:15 PM

Forgetaboutit!

ConcinusMan

11-16-2010, 12:16 PM

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/forgetaboutit.jpg

guidofatherof5

11-16-2010, 09:40 PM

Tonight, I was giving my young concinnus' a few guppies. One of the smallest snakes wasn't interested in taking a full fish from me but seemed interested in hanging around while I fed some of the others.
It then occurred to me that the guppy may be too big for the snake. Not that it is but the small snake may not want to deal with a whole fish.
Thinking quickly I cut part of a tail off and offered it. The little scrub smelled it then grabbed it and ate it. This success gave me an idea so I chopped up a few guppies.
All the non-whole guppy eaters took pieces and had a good meal.
Now, it's one of two things or a combination of the two that helped these snakes.
1- Smaller pieces of food.
2- Intense smell(blood, guts, etc.)
I'm just glad to find yet another avenue to help these slow eaters.
Any thoughts about this observation?

jamromhem

11-17-2010, 12:18 PM

just a few thoughts that came to mind on the observations.

The Shedding : I have noticed many times that my checkered has a rancid smelling oily smeeling substance in her shed.. It really is a little grose :P She had them expecially on parts of the shed near injuries. So it might be the natural chemical they use to shed.. She often sheds without soaking first.

This is really good information and alot of it makes me just want to get more garters and set up a breeding program of my own :P But I am going to be the good pet and wait till I can afford them a larger amount of room and more controled temps. Though I am thinking about getting a pair of redix soon :P I really want a 1.1 pair of red-phase.

guidofatherof5

11-17-2010, 01:41 PM

Though I am thinking about getting a pair of redix soon :P I really want a 1.1 pair of red-phase.

So do a lot of other people. Get in line.:D

ConcinusMan

11-23-2010, 06:58 AM

Yeah, I was going to say, good luck with that. There's plenty of people that would pay quite a bit of money for just one red radix and they still can't get one. Not enough to go around and they sure aren't being produced in any quantities to speak of. I sure hope Steve is working on this and not just hoarding his.:rolleyes:

I have two young females that are nice green and gold normal looking but one of their parents was a het iowa albino, the other parent was a red radix so there's some good gene potential to use them for breeding when they grow up, which they are doing quite fast.

guidofatherof5

11-23-2010, 07:03 AM

Yes, I'm hoarding mine and working on it:D

ConcinusMan

11-23-2010, 07:06 AM

Just make darn sure you're pairing them up correctly to get the desired outcome, and that is, more red radixes and hurry up about it. Give the boys some viagra and put on romantic music if you have to, I'm running out of patience.

guidofatherof5

11-24-2010, 03:12 PM

Yesterday, LG gave birth to her babies. The night before delivering she was restless.
Going from the cold side to the hot side up in the vines all over the enclosure. From that I knew she was close to delivering.
The thing that really caught my eye was that during the last week she's had a shadow. My girl Shade was always with her when she was just sitting. None of the other snakes were hanging around her. If she was in the cold hide, Shade was right next to her. Same in the hot hide. While LG gave birth, Shade was close by but none of the other snakes were. When I would take a baby out Shade would come over and see what I was doing. She'd come up and smell my hand and the baby.
It was probably some hormone from LG or the smell of birth, I don't know. Shade was never aggressive towards LG or anything weird/strange.
It was almost as if Shade was looking out for LG.
Maybe Shade was playing midwife.
These snakes are always doing something to spark my interest.

ConcinusMan

11-24-2010, 03:25 PM

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the snakes you named. What are they? where's the pics?

guidofatherof5

11-24-2010, 03:27 PM

These are adult T.radixes females. Can't post any photos as the forum must still be on backup server. Sorry.

ConcinusMan

11-24-2010, 04:29 PM

I've been saying it all along. You won't have any problems if you'll just use imageshack and hotlink the images to your posts here.:rolleyes:

But that's OK Steve, we can wait.

The only odd behavior I saw when my girls were about to give birth was that I had to take the males out. Stupid boys kept trying to mate with the girls while they were giving birth.:rolleyes:

guidofatherof5

12-26-2010, 05:09 PM

Christmas morning(4am) I was in the big snake room. I had fed a couple individual young radixes a few baby night crawlers.
I then got into a big enclosure(females) to wish me girls a Merry Christmas. LG came up to me and started mouthing my finger that still had worm scent on it. Since I ignored her she turned it up a notch and did a full open mouth bite. She didn't sink her teeth and simply looked at me to see if she'd caught my attention yet. I continued to ignore her and she gave up. She worked her mouth off but apparently had a cramp in her jaw. I cracked up as she tried to close her mouth but couldn't.
She flexed her lower lips, twisted her head and finally closed her mouth. She looked so pathetic. It gave me a good laugh to start the day off.

ConcinusMan

12-26-2010, 10:43 PM

I see my big adults do that a lot. Their "lips" get displaced and when they try to close their mouths, they get the funniest look on their faces and have to adjust everything so it lines up properly, and try again. That happened just the other day with the biggest girl. (an adult mouse is nowhere near too big for her) She's usually very careful about not biting me but she must have been really hungry. She hauled off and missed the food entirely and struck my thumb instead. She's really big so the teeth sank right in, drawing blood. It took some doing to get her teeth backed out. When she was loose, she looked at me with misaligned lips and couldn't close her mouth properly. I couldn't help but to laugh out loud even though I was bleeding.

guidofatherof5

02-11-2011, 10:30 PM

Here's one:
Tonight I was feeding a a group of Radixes. In the enclosure is Boomerang, Honda, and Mr. Mansley. The rest of the residence of this enclosure are in the fridge(Nova, VP) Boomerang was out to see me(begging). I've always loved this girl for many reasons. She's docile, big and red. I've always wanted her to breed but she never has. Even with Mr. Mansley around 24/7.
As more of a joke I looked at Mr. Mansley and told him his problem might just be he has no competition. I then went to another enclosure housing a great looking mature red phase radix male. I was saving him for Nova but decided to put him in the game right now. I removed him and into the other enclosure he went.
Like a duck on a June bug he went for Boomerang. He's courting her as I type. I think I will be up late this night waiting to see if there's a lockup.
What's interesting is the fact Mr. Mansley showed no interest in her at all.
.
.
.
I took a few moments to check on them. The new man is now courting Honda. He can't seem to make up his mind. They both must smell pretty good.
Mr. Mansley is a proven breeder but must be taking a sabbatical.:D

ConcinusMan

02-11-2011, 10:33 PM

It's funny, the timing of you telling us this. I have an anery male that has been courting one of the anery females for more than a day now. No other males are interested in her in the least bit. This is a first for me. Very odd.

guidofatherof5

02-11-2011, 10:49 PM

Here's my Boom and Redman.
I think they might make some hot babies.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/boom2.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/redman.jpg

ConcinusMan

02-11-2011, 11:14 PM

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/redman.jpg
As if this snake isn't hot enough, picture it as an albino! You did let that "busy" WC albino male mate with some red girls didn't you?

I would like to see more of these produced in the coming years. Might even get that chance myself in a couple of more years.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF1007-2.jpg

Well, lesson learned. I guess that just because a female isn't attracting other males doesn't mean you can't get them to breed by trying other males.:rolleyes:

New Mutant

02-12-2011, 04:28 PM

I feed my ribbons live guppies, placing them on the substrate so that they jump around and attract the snakes. I put the fish in in twos, one next to Percy and one next to Luke. The other day when I fed them, I had been getting frustrated (Percy is going through a phase where he feels he must eat each fish tail first, which takes forever), so there was a fish already on the ground when I gave him his next (sometimes the flopping of a new fish will start the old ones flopping too). Percy grabbed the new fish and had it halfway down when the first fish started moving. He rushed over and pinned it down with his chin, then, realizing that that wouldn't work for long, he pulled back his head and flung part of his body onto it. He finished his fish, then grabbed the other and ate it leisurely, lifting his body to release it little by little as he ate it.

EasternGirl

02-12-2011, 04:34 PM

Great looking snakes...I love the names, by the way. Did your kids name them?

guidofatherof5

02-12-2011, 05:05 PM

No. Boomerang and Redman were both my ideas.
My kids have named a few but for the most part it's left to me.:D

guidofatherof5

04-19-2011, 02:11 PM

It's 39F/4C and cold rain. I went out and collected about 50 earthworms for the newborns.
While I was feeding Darkgirl's babies I had to laugh at their attitudes.
After taking the small pale worm off my hemostats the epic battle began. These newborns struggled to keep the worm from balling up. Thrashing from side to side usually kept this from happening.
It was such a joy to see these little babies doing their thing.

kibakiba

04-19-2011, 02:16 PM

That's cute. My new babies do funny things with their pinky parts. Every time they get them, they stick up like twigs while munching on them. Its funny seeing their heads all in the air. They use it against me, though. Their faces are even more cute when they stick up like that.

guidofatherof5

04-29-2011, 06:17 PM

Today was a yard work day for me. Upper 70 and very windy(40-50 MPH). It was sunny out so I grabbed my herping hat so I wouldn't burn my bald head.
Between chores I headed to the snake room to check on everyone. My adult radix female enclosure was my first stop. These girls are used to my intrusions as I interact with them many times a day.
I opened the screen door and said hello. My ladies all started out to me but slowed down on approach. They knew it was me but just couldn't figure out what was wrong with my head.
I had forgotten to take my hat off and they were confused. After a few minutes they accepted my new look and all was fine.
They are very observant.

Sonya610

04-29-2011, 06:24 PM

I had forgotten to take my hat off and they were confused. After a few minutes they accepted my new look and all was fine.

You should have just been a gentleman and taken off your hat!

guidofatherof5

04-29-2011, 06:33 PM

You should have just been a gentleman and taken off your hat!

A pox upon me for a clumsy lout:D

kibakiba

04-29-2011, 08:36 PM

That's one thing I love about garters. All of mine didn't recognize me at all after I got my hair dyed lighter and cut a few inches. The first time I put my hair in a pony tail, they wouldn't let me touch them. When I put my hand in the tank with Mama she'd come up to my hand and smell me, and if I moved, she'd pull herself away, and then come up and smell me again. It was really cute.
They are such smart little snakes.

ConcinusMan

05-03-2011, 02:07 PM

They are. Much smarter, more interactive, and more sensitive than many people give them credit for.

kibakiba

05-03-2011, 11:22 PM

Indeed. My therapist is the only person I know in real life who understands that and believes me. She's known me for 2 years and has been through a lot of me discussing my snakes.

Its funny how some people who have raised them don't ever see how intelligent they can be.

ConcinusMan

05-04-2011, 01:04 AM

They are obviously good for you. Any therapist worth a darn will be able to see that. Heck, I can.:rolleyes:

Sonya610

05-04-2011, 07:28 AM

We don't need to be able to communicate with them, either. It can be tested. We can find out which part of the brain does what job and we can find out whether a species has it and whether it's working on a specific individual.

The testing is only as good as the testers, and we are pretty darn dense to say the least!

The poor development in birds of any brain structures clearly corresponding to the cerebral cortex of mammals led to the assumption among neurologists not only that birds are primarily creatures of instinct, but also that they are very little endowed with the ability to learn...This misconceived view of brain mechanisms hindered the development of experimental studies on bird learning .

EVOLUTION: ON THE EVOLUTION OF BIRD INTELLIGENCE (http://scienceweek.com/2006/sw060113-4.htm)

We now know that birds have a different brain structure but some are in fact HIGHLY intelligent and capable of problem solving.

How is it they were "stupid and instinctual animals" a few decades ago but are now considered to be far more intelligent? Who got smarter? Us or them?

Course it is always very convenient for humans to decide "this or that doesn't have feelings, it is not self-aware" because therefore you can do whatever you like to them! And in my mind it does come down to self-aware, on a spiritual level as well as a physical level.

Stefan-A

05-04-2011, 09:10 AM

The testing is only as good as the testers, and we are pretty darn dense to say the least!
We're smart enough to test their intelligence and we're smart enough to take ourselves out of the equation.

How is it they were "stupid and instinctual animals" a few decades ago but are now considered to be far more intelligent? Who got smarter? Us or them?Who thought that? Certainly not those who were studying them.

We've also been believing that animals are far more intelligent than they actually are since we were hunter-gatherers and it's only fairly recently that we've been able to lay those myths to rest by actually putting them through tests.

Course it is always very convenient for humans to decide "this or that doesn't have feelings, it is not self-aware" because therefore you can do whatever you like to them! Convenient or not, there are people out there who are very keen to find out how things really are.

And in my mind it does come down to self-aware, on a spiritual level as well as a physical level.What does that even mean? Spiritual?

kibakiba

05-04-2011, 10:59 AM

My therapist is quite different from others. She prefers getting to know her clients before anything and doing every thing she can to help. That said, since she knows I love my little garters, she brings them up a lot. She's always interested in knowing how every one of them is doing.

To stay on topic, I've found that Snap bites and hisses more when my hair is in a pony tail than when it's down. Never seen her head go so flat. It was funny. Silly snake. ;)

They are obviously good for you. Any therapist worth a darn will be able to see that. Heck, I can.:rolleyes:

ConcinusMan

05-04-2011, 11:02 AM

I got a very small radix with "little man syndrome". He greets me with the flattened head, and strikes, every time.:rolleyes:

RedSidedSPR

05-04-2011, 03:07 PM

Awesome. They are as fun as nice tame ones:D

Mommy2many

05-04-2011, 06:20 PM

They are. Much smarter, more interactive, and more sensitive than many people give them credit for.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly!!!

Charis

05-22-2011, 04:08 PM

guidofatherof5

05-27-2011, 07:08 AM

Yesterday my good friend and garter buddy came by to deliver my ribbon snake and to see some of the snakes he hasn't seen.
In many of the enclosures I let him pull the hide off the snakes to give him the shock effect on seeing these beauties.
Little did I know the shock effect was going to be on my snakes. The look on their little faces was classic.
Most froze in place and stared at Mark.
This was not a quick stare but a long drawn out watching.
I started feeling sorry for them and stepped in. Many came right up to me.
They are very observant little creatures.;)

RedSidedSPR

05-27-2011, 07:14 AM

Really? They know you by look, that is awesome!

guidofatherof5

05-27-2011, 07:26 AM

Really? They know you by look, that is awesome!

Not the first time they've done this kind of thing.
They are my snakes and even shy away from some of my kids. They know and trust me and I them.
I do spend the most time with them to be honest.
Strangers in the snake room always puts them on edge.
Kind of like a predator coming into their home.

Didymus20X6

05-27-2011, 07:49 AM

A regular St. Francis of the snake world.

ConcinusMan

05-27-2011, 10:40 AM

Really? They know you by look, that is awesome!

They have evolved with that innate ability. Survival means knowing how to identify predator and prey visually.;) It stands to reason that they use this skill combined with the positive enforcement you give them when you feed them, to know you on sight and know that you = feeding time.

guidofatherof5

05-27-2011, 10:48 AM

Or = buddy:D

RedSidedSPR

05-27-2011, 11:11 AM

I know, but it's still really cool. Mine's not there yet, though.

ConcinusMan

05-27-2011, 02:15 PM

Or = buddy:D

That's a logical conclusion. Guy who brings the food = Buddy

guidofatherof5

05-27-2011, 02:18 PM

I was thinking more like

= guy who's fun to be around.:D

BLUESIRTALIS

05-27-2011, 02:27 PM

I think anyone who brings food is fun to be around.

ConcinusMan

05-27-2011, 02:29 PM

There, you see? still boils down to food.

Sonya610

05-27-2011, 03:54 PM

There, you see? still boils down to food.

Yeah the food thing creates an amazing change for some! The little Concinnus really does not want me looking at him, God forbid touching him! But if food is involved he is suddenly fearless, chasing my hand, occasionally nipping the fingers, and charging towards me out of the enclosure given the chance!

The little flame is very different, he is out and visible 95% of the day, he is curious about everything "just because" and he seems to find the activity of the human interesting whether it involves food or not, feeding time is fun but he has to think about it and analyze whether he really wants to eat what is being offered. I am going to lower the cage so he can see more of the room, on the rare occasion he peaks out and sees the four legged animals below he is obviously enthralled!

They really do have such incredibly unique personalities.

Sonya610

05-27-2011, 05:13 PM

IMHO, FWIW, while I believe you should be careful about over anthropomorphizing animals, because there are limits to their behaviors, intelligence etc, they are not humans and are not going to act or think about things the way a human would.

Limits to their behaviors and intelligence as compared to what species? Sounds like you have a mighty high opinion of humans!

Keep in mind it isn't always about anthropomorphizing, many of us like them simply because they are NOT human! Different species have different brains, different thoughts, different talents, different ways of perceiving the world, different life experiences. Different does not imply inferior or superior.

Remember snakes have been around a whole lot longer than we have; they have seen plenty of "superior animals" come and go.

Charis

05-27-2011, 10:14 PM

I actually wasn't weighing their superiority or lack thereof, like you said, I just meant that a solitary animal, while it may learn some social behaviors through forced interaction, their first instinctual reaction to an overture from you may not be the appropriate one that other social animals might get. There are some normal to that species behaviors, instincts, hierarchies, etc. that should be taken into account when interacting with any animal. For instance, showing teeth is a good sign to humans (and a few animals) but for most animals, it would be a threat.

guidofatherof5

06-24-2011, 08:21 PM

Today I had some time to work with my Northwesterns(T. ordinoides).
They seem to like being fed off the hemostats. These are some cute smaller garter snakes.
While feeding them I saw some interesting behavior. If one snake was at the food dish waiting to be fed and another snake started out to get some food. The first snake would rush over and confront the other. Staring them down and using some false strikes(mouth closed strike) in an attempt to turn the other snake away.
Sometimes this tactic would work and other times the snake ignored the strikes and came to the food dish.
Size meant nothing as even the smallest snake would try this. With good results sometimes.
My Nothwesterns are a wonderful group. They aren't flashy or large snakes but what they lack in those categories they make-up for with good attitudes and behavior.
If you ever have the opportunity to work with these snakes I would say do it.
You won't be disappointed.

kibakiba

06-24-2011, 08:33 PM

Thumbelina would chase Ember around the tank if he had a pinky. He doesn't care whose bigger than him or if the food is bigger, he just wants to bite onto the pinky. ;) They're silly snakes. I love them.

guidofatherof5

07-20-2011, 09:39 PM

The other day I was working with one of my big groups of big female radixes.
Unbeknownst(first time I've used that word) to me my girl Tourette went out on a walkabout(she escaped)
About 30 minutes later I was standing right next to the enclosure resting my hand between the upper and lower enclosures.
Suddenly I felt something touch my hand. I looked down and saw Tourette looking up at me.
I turned my hand over and she climbed over my palm and up my arm. She came to rest on my shoulder and we watched TV for awhile.
When Judge Judy was over I opened her enclosure and she went back home:D
They are very comfortable snakes.

ConcinusMan

07-20-2011, 09:53 PM

IMHO, FWIW, while I believe you should be careful about over anthropomorphizing animals, because there are limits to their behaviors, intelligence etc, they are not humans and are not going to act or think about things the way a human would. Still, I think it's wrong to go the other way, if you are expecting a "dumb animal" you generally get a dumb animal.

I mostly agree. While there is intelligence, learning, and even social interaction, what motivates a snake's behavior is not the same things that motivate ours. They do have "emotions" and responses but for the most part, those emotions and motivations can not be anthropomorphized accurately. For example, snakes do not "cuddle" with other snakes for the same reasons that we would "cuddle" with other people. Their motivations are not the same as what motivates us, even if the behaviors seem the same as ours.

Until my "tamest" snakes learned that I was the provider of food and all comforts that snakes seek, they had no desire to "cuddle" with me or even come anywhere near me. Once again, it boils down to what motivates them. They do not seek me out for socializing or "cuddling". They seek me out for different reasons. Food. And perhaps they feel a bit more secure knowing I will not eat them, and I'm much bigger and scarier than just about any predator that would attempt to eat them. In other words, I'm their big scarecrow, keeping away predators and making sure they get fed.

Their responding to that by interacting with us can be mistaken for affection but I do not believe they feel that for us. They're just "using" us. That's right. :eek: Like I said, different motivations. The crocodile might think that the bird that cleans his teeth does so out of affection, but we know what the real reason is. Food, and security. That's what motivates the bird.

Their ability to adapt to captivity and use us to get what they need is a testament to their intelligence.

d_virginiana

07-20-2011, 10:56 PM

Their responding to that by interacting with us can be mistaken for affection but I do not believe they feel that for us. They're just "using" us. That's right. :eek: Like I said, different motivations. The crocodile might think that the bird that cleans his teeth does so out of affection, but we know what the real reason is. Food, and security. That's what motivates the bird.

Their ability to adapt to captivity and use us to get what they need is a testament to their intelligence.

I sort of agree, but sort of not... Any sort of friendly or altruistic behavior in any animal (including humans) can be construed as a mechanism that evolved for the purpose of gaining resources or promoting the survival of genetically similar individuals such as family members. There's no proof either way, just a point of view really. I like to think that there's more to most animals than just self-serving instinct..

Snakes can't use facial expressions, vocalizations, or any of the communication mechanisms we do and we can't use any of theirs. It's impossible to form the sort of bond with a snake you get with a dog. That doesn't mean that the snake doesn't enjoy a person's presence for any reason other than heat or food. I've had Houdini for 11 years now, but only recently have I really been working with him. He's known his whole life that I am a piece of heated furniture that gives him food. Never bitten, never musked, never even been skittish of me. He also never cared whether or not anyone was in the room. In just the past few months since I've really been working with him he will react to me whenever I go past his cage and launch an escape attempt if I don't immediately get him out and hold him for a minute. This could just be him using me to get out of his tank, but I like to think there's at least some primitive form of affection behind it.

RedSidedSPR

07-21-2011, 07:00 AM

d_virginiana

07-21-2011, 09:14 AM

Wow, that's awesome. I have a feeling if my snakes got out, they'd be gone

Mine would turn into catfood after about five minutes. :eek:

ConcinusMan

07-21-2011, 12:33 PM

Wow, that's awesome. I have a feeling if my snakes got out, they'd be gone

Amy and Tango (Iowa and nebraska albino, orange phase radixes) almost never try to escape. Several times I have left the top off and got distracted. One time it was even for two days while I wasn't home. Those two were still snug in their enclosures when I discovered my mistake. :)

RedSidedSPR

07-21-2011, 12:50 PM

That wouldn't happen... Actually my adult doesn't try and escape... I left it open like that once, and he didn't get out, but he was hiding the whole time (I guess)

My anery baby has discovered he can stick to the glue!! Up to the corner of the lid!! Off the ground completed than falls :D he knows he can do it though he tries alot, hes smart

kibakiba

07-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Snakey and Ember don't try escaping. I left the top off for 2hours and they were just lounging around. :D

RedSidedSPR

07-21-2011, 03:14 PM

Mine (exept glue-man) never really try to escape, but if given the oppurtanity, I'm sure they would

guidofatherof5

07-26-2011, 04:23 PM

While feeding my Red Spotted Garter snakes (T.s concinnus) I saw some typical behaviors. Most of which was trying to steal food.
One of the smaller snakes approached and took pinky. He then bolted for the other side of the enclosure where I guess he felt he would be left allow to enjoy his meal.
As he bolted the largest of the snakes clamped down on his back and stopped him dead in his tracks.
The smaller snake struggled to get away to no avail.
It was as if the larger snake was saying "Hey little man, where do you think your going with that pinky"
Garters are so entertaining.

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 04:34 PM

And that didn't hurt him or anything?

guidofatherof5

07-26-2011, 04:37 PM

Not at all.
I peeled the bigger one off and the smaller continued on his way.
Garters are very tough skinned.

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 04:39 PM

How much would it take for a garter to hurt another?

I've always love that aggressiveness I'm concinnus...

Although, i don't know how that will work out with my other two.. (concinnus is arriving next few days)

ConcinusMan

07-26-2011, 04:41 PM

It doesn't take much, especially if they lock mouths. Mouth wounds get infected easily.

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 04:42 PM

But if they stay away from the mouth?

kibakiba

07-26-2011, 05:23 PM

Well, Mama has bit and chewed on Snakey's back. He didn't even notice really. She has extremely sharp teeth. Just a soft nip from her draws blood. She had her mind set on eating him (she smeared some worm on him on accident), so she wasn't exactly gentle. She didn't draw any blood at all.

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 05:38 PM

Makes me feel better... Or safer... Or whatever.

kibakiba

07-26-2011, 05:41 PM

They're tough little snakes ;)

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 05:42 PM

Yeah, but they are also strong and have teeth. I just wasn't sure how bad they could hurt eachother.

ConcinusMan

07-26-2011, 06:26 PM

Of course they can

RedSidedSPR

07-26-2011, 06:31 PM

Right, but i didn't know how easily!!

kibakiba

08-15-2011, 12:17 AM

I'll put my observation here, because I think it fits...

Pumpkin is about to shed again, and I was letting her relax in my bra. She had been in it for about 30 minutes and I decided to check on her. When I put my finger near her, she slithered a little bit towards it and wrapped her tail around my middle finger and let her head rest on my index finger. It was so cute. But, it seems like one of those comfort things, she feels comfortable with my hand, and she will come to my hand willingly. Some might think that it's heat related, but when she's in my bra, she's about the warmest she could be, my hands aren't covered and are usually quite cold, yet she still wrapped herself around my fingers. I've noticed this with a lot of my snakes, especially the ones that I either work with a lot, or the ones that have been with me the longest. Even when its over 90 degrees in my room, they seek my hand, usually my left. They don't come to me as often if my right hand is in the tank, but if my left hand is, they come.

I'll make this clear, I'm not anthropomorphizing them, it's something I noticed. I'm not saying they have advanced feelings like humans. I really doubt being "comfortable" is anything advanced, but I do think a snake can be comforted by something that they're very familiar with. And, I felt the need to explain this because I've been flamed too much for anthropomorphizing my snakes, both by people on here and people in real life.

d_virginiana

08-15-2011, 12:29 PM

I think that makes sense. It's totally different to say "my snake loves me" and "my snake feels safe around me". I don't think you're anthropomorphizing them too much. My adult will often avoid being passed to other people, and will always choose my hand over someone else's. I'm pretty sure he does it mostly by smell, since he's almost blind, but he'll go right up to someone else's hand, tongue flick it a time or two, and then run back up my arm.

RedSidedSPR

08-15-2011, 12:50 PM

Oh heck yeah. They can. I don't need to describe it, but if you saw my anery you'd believe it.

kibakiba

08-15-2011, 04:27 PM

You can tell Mama trusts me more than every one else. Everyone loves her when they come over, but she tends to be a bit more antsy around people when they're holding her, or she'll keep her tail wrapped tightly around my finger while the other person is holding her.

RedSidedSPR

08-15-2011, 04:32 PM

Oh jeez, you should see it. My little concinnus especially, but everyone one of my snakes PANICS when you someone get close to the cage. They fly into the hides and onto walls. They never let anyone hold them. But i can approach the cage, open the lid, and pick them up, and they barely move, never even flinch. Not only do they trust me, te recognize me. Visually.

katach

08-15-2011, 04:36 PM

All our snakes just come straight to our hands. Except for Blade, she only comes to me. She actually musked my husband yesterday. I think maybe it was because she is in shed right now.

kibakiba

08-15-2011, 04:47 PM

Mama just shed last night and when I was showing my mom, Mama went right into my shirt and hasn't come out. It's been 45 minutes. Haha. She's such a good Snakie.

katach

08-15-2011, 04:53 PM

Awww, so sweet!

RedSidedSPR

08-15-2011, 05:46 PM

My adult will hang around my neck, or cram himself in my shirt pocket and stick his head out.:D he's still real jumpy but trusts me.

kibakiba

08-15-2011, 05:59 PM

Yeah, Mama lives being around my neck, or sitting on my shoulder and stick her head out of my bra and shirt while I'm walking around. She's such a good snake.

RedSidedSPR

08-15-2011, 06:12 PM

He'd be the same way, if he wasn't so daggone jumpy.

guidofatherof5

12-27-2011, 03:56 PM

I only have a couple of jumpy(non-trusting) snakes, my female Gulf Coast Ribbon (Thamnophis proximus orarius) and
female Eastern Black-necked (Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus).
I've noticed that both snakes have figured out the screen gives them a certain amount of protection. As in, they are much more bold when the screen is up. Both snakes will come right up to the screen to investigate the strange creature(me) outside.
Both snakes are requiring baby steps in the area of trust.
Shyblue (Ribbon) will gladly take food from me whereas the Black-necked will not.
I have plenty of time to give them.

kibakiba

12-27-2011, 03:58 PM

That's how Snap is sometimes. She'll come up to the glass and stare or watch me when I'm near it, but the moment I'm about to touch her, she won't have any of it.

Selkielass

12-29-2011, 10:51 AM

My Butlers first reaction is to freeze and blend in. The adults don't panic and thrash any more, tho they are sometimes reluctant to let go of a branch they may be hanging on to. (And they really do hang on!)
The sub-adults will sometimes do the panic nd thrash thing when picked up- it is a remarkably effective mechanisim for dissappearing into brush when surprised while sunning. But they usualy settle down pretty quickly. Micro is the only consistant spaz of the bunch, and given hir tiny size, I can't blame hir too much.

EasternGirl

12-29-2011, 11:19 AM

My snakes have all figured out that the glass of the tank protects them too. They will come right up to me through the glass...but the minute I open the tank, they get skiddish or start false striking at me. Sometimes now, Cee Cee and Seeley will sit and let me pet them and not flip out...progress. Hermes will put his little nose up to my hand as long as I am very slow about approaching him...any quick movement and he slithers away quickly.

Light of Dae

12-29-2011, 12:22 PM

I have noticed that since I increased the temperature in my Radix (Babs) Tank that she is way more jumpy.
Her tank has always been beside the couch, and she never used to jump and or fall off her 'rock' when I would get up n walk past. Now almost every time I walk past her tank she THROWS herself backwards, tumbling, n flying down from her basking spot n hides in her flowers! The little bit of extra heat seems to have made her FAR more alert... (Or maybe fried her brain... lol) I'm starting to handle her more to try n help her get used to everything all over again.

She will watch me from a distance all curious like. Say when I was making the lid (Sewing on screen) for Georges' tank she was watching every move, soon as I got up BANG she's falling down beside herself!

EasternGirl

12-29-2011, 03:38 PM

That is odd. Although my snakes go through weird phases...like Cee Cee was so trusting when I first found her...she would come right up to me and take food from my hand...and she would always put her head right up to the screen lid and come to see me...then one day out of the blue, she started freaking out when ever she saw me. She would jump back and hide when she saw me...and now she even false strikes at me all the time. Steve told me that a small change in appearance or smell...something we might not even think of might cause the snakes to do this. For example, I have noticed that Seeley only recognizes me when my hair is pulled back...if I let it down, he freaks out and doesn't know who I am!

d_virginiana

12-30-2011, 12:32 AM

Mine act crazy if they can smell some of my other animals on me, especially if I've been holding the cats. They also don't really like it if I've been handling a wild snake and they can still smell it a bit even after washing. lol Of course, when I've been catching wild salamanders, they're the friendliest snakes in the world.

EasternGirl

12-30-2011, 09:47 AM

Hmmm....you know I never even thought about them smelling my other animals on me. I do know they freak out when my dog or cats walk by the tanks. But I never thought about the smell of the animals...

guidofatherof5

03-18-2012, 10:15 PM

Today while at the T.s.parietalis (Red Sided garter snake) I saw something that I had to report.

Two males were at the top of the den opening observing me. I was laying on the ground 2 feet from them.
Behind me I heard the neighbor coming out the back of his house. His house was 75-100 yards away from the den. He was loud and I knew he was outside.
I then heard him call his dogs out. During this time the snakes were still watching me and paying no attention to him as he was not in their field of view.(this is important)
It was at this time the two dogs started barking. These were large dog.
The moment they barked the two snakes looked over in that direction.
Is it possible they heard the barks from that distance? If so, I have a new respect for their hearing.

chris-uk

03-19-2012, 01:50 AM

Natrix

03-19-2012, 02:17 AM

I thought their hearing was quite primitive with their other senses developed to compensate. Although this isn't based on any sort of active reading I've done around the subject.
Is it possible that they heard a loud noise and were bringing their other senses to bear to try to identify the source? Rather than knowing it was dogs and looking to see them coming?
That's what I thought Chris, until I researched it and was surprised to find this :-

Although snakes lack an external ear or ear drum, their skin and bones pick up vibrations and transmit them to a functional inner ear. It was once believed that snakes could only detect vibrations transmitted through the ground, but is now known that they can indeed pick up even airborne sounds this way. ;)

chris-uk

03-19-2012, 02:38 AM

Good description of what I understood, I was sure that they could hear sound travelling through the air it's a case of how much they can hear and whether they can interpret and identify what the noise is.
In Steve's case we'll never know whether they heard something and thought, "better look over there and see what it is" or "dogs over there, let's look to see if they come this way".

Bart

03-19-2012, 03:25 AM

My Izy sometimes walks onto my hand, when he's cruising around his tank, possibly looking for occasion to flee, lol. I present him a flat hand and after some tongue flicking he climbs on me. Nevertheless, he's still skittish and I doubt it will ever pass.

guidofatherof5

03-19-2012, 04:17 AM

I thought their hearing was quite primitive with their other senses developed to compensate. Although this isn't based on any sort of active reading I've done around the subject.
Is it possible that they heard a loud noise and were bringing their other senses to bear to try to identify the source? Rather than knowing it was dogs and looking to see them coming?

When I first read your reply I was going to respond with something like this "I never meant to imply they knew it was a dog but only reacted to the sound"
Now, I'm not sure that is true. Since these snakes have probably grown up in this area they may very well have known it is a dog having firsthand knowledge(being harassed or even attacked) of these predators.
I know that nothing I have posted here is even vaguely related to fact but it does bring up some interesting thoughts.
I for one think that garters have good memories and feel they could learn that a certain sound means possible danger.
They certainly weren't reacting to the bird calls, motorcycles and jets sounds that are regular in the area.

jitami

03-19-2012, 06:50 AM

The moment they barked the two snakes looked over in that direction.Is it possible they heard the barks from that distance? If so, I have a new respect for their hearing.

Sorry for going MIA again, but I've observed this with my guys as well, although the dogs are at a much closer distance - mostly under my feet while I'm making them breakfast or dinner, or perhaps in the next room waiting impatiently for dinner to be delivered. I make the dogs' food on the counter right in front of one of the snake enclosures and the snakes, Frick and Frack, always want to see what I'm up to, but if the dog barks they often jump and go into alert mode for a moment or two. I always assumed it was the vibrations. Although it's nearly always the same impatient dog, all three of mine have deep barks. Now that I think about it, I have seen the kingsnake do this once or twice, too.

chris-uk

03-19-2012, 07:02 AM

Sorry for going MIA again, but I've observed this with my guys as well, although the dogs are at a much closer distance - mostly under my feet while I'm making them breakfast or dinner, or perhaps in the next room waiting impatiently for dinner to be delivered. I make the dogs' food on the counter right in front of one of the snake enclosures and the snakes, Frick and Frack, always want to see what I'm up to, but if the dog barks they often jump and go into alert mode for a moment or two. I always assumed it was the vibrations. Although it's nearly always the same impatient dog, all three of mine have deep barks. Now that I think about it, I have seen the kingsnake do this once or twice, too.

That's some anecdotal evidence to suggest that they can distinguish sounds. Possibly not associating it with a known danger, but it bothers them enough to know it's not good.
I expect there's some research that involved sound amongst all the research papers on garters over the years.

EasternGirl

03-19-2012, 08:05 AM

I have been convinced for a while that my snakes can distinguish sounds. I know for a fact that Cee Cee knows the sound of my voice. Perhaps she cannot hear like we can, but she must know the frequency of the vibration of my voice...because she can be hiding in her cave, unable to see me, and I can go to her enclosure and call to her...and she will come out. Seeley also responds to a certain "high pitched call sound" that I make to get his attention.

Hollis_Steed

03-19-2012, 08:08 AM

I know it sounds crazy, but I have a little wandering garter who once escaped and was hiding in a book shelf. When I discovered he was MIA, I called to him, the same way I do when I feed, and I'll be danged if he did not come poking his head out of his hiding place!

EasternGirl

03-19-2012, 12:23 PM

Doesn't sound crazy at all to me...like I said, my snakes come out from hiding when I call to them all the time.

Didymus20X6

03-19-2012, 01:44 PM

So that thing in Harry Potter where the snakes can hear, in reality, they actually can. Huh.

But they still don't have eyelids, and therefore cannot wink!

kibakiba

03-19-2012, 05:49 PM

My voice seems to calm (some) of my snakes down... Whenever Mama or snakey get scared, a little talking calms them down pretty fast. Maybe the familiar "vibrations" and such from my troat are just soothng... Because they don't calm down on their own when that happens.

My babies also freak out sometimes when the dog barks... I know Spots has flung him/herself at our dog with his/her mouth agape when I was showing my mom, Lovey jumped onto the couch and barked.. Spots didn't like it I guess.

EasternGirl

03-19-2012, 07:17 PM

My crazy cat keeps going up and scratching at Cee Cee's tank. It's driving her crazy. Evil cat spawn.

kimbosaur

03-20-2012, 01:09 PM

My snakes don't seem to respond to any sound...

My voice seems to calm (some) of my snakes down... Whenever Mama or snakey get scared, a little talking calms them down pretty fast. Maybe the familiar "vibrations" and such from my troat are just soothng... Because they don't calm down on their own when that happens.

Could it be that they are picking up on your relaxed energy rather than getting soothed by your voice?

kibakiba

03-20-2012, 04:22 PM

Yo be perfectly honest with you, I'm never relaxed. I can sound relaxed and I can "act" relaxed, aside from the shaking and occasional snappiness that comes when you're nervous... But my voice stays steady. I imagine they are just feeling, or hearing the vibration and know it to be familiar, and relax. If it was relaxed energy, wouldn't they relax on their own, and not when I talk to them?

kimbosaur

03-20-2012, 07:43 PM

Hmm, interesting. I was just asking because I've noticed that whenever I'm panicky, my snakes are really panicky. As in, they may thrash or try to escape. But as soon as I "calm down," by relaxing my hand and taking a deeppppp breath, my snakes calm down.

It's basic instinct and makes perfect sense when you think about it. It could be totally different in your situation though!

EasternGirl

03-20-2012, 08:11 PM

I read an article in Practical Reptile Keeping that discusses how snakes can sense fear and tension in people and react to it by becoming tense and fearful and defensive...often fleeing, showing defense mechanisms, or attacking. If a person remains calm around a snake, the article goes on to say, the snake will react calmly. I notice this in my snakes as well.

kibakiba

03-20-2012, 08:30 PM

Mama backs away from my mom when she's scared. Mama is very calm and almost understanding seeming.. she won't freak out even when my mom is literally panicking with her, she just slowly tries to slither back to me.

kimbosaur

03-21-2012, 11:23 AM

I think this is the case with almost all animals. Its like a survival instinct right? Panic=potential danger. From the other end, predators sense panic, stress because it can mean an easy target.

EasternGirl

03-21-2012, 03:21 PM

Yeah...Cee Cee gets panicky around the other people in my family. If she is coming out of her tank to see me and my mom walks by, she will freeze and start breathing hard and then slink back into her tank really quickly. She has, however, learned to have face-offs with my stupid cat who keeps going up to her tank and staring at her and scratching at the tank. She just stares back at him now instead of hiding. Cee Cee also musks other people. Of course that one time that she thought I was my ex's girlfriend, she bit the crap out of me...but I like to think that is because she understands that we do not like the ex's girlfriend! Lol...

guidofatherof5

06-12-2012, 06:27 PM

Today I was visiting my largest group of female, the group with Enforcer, Tourette, Daisy, Shyblue, etc.
My youngest daughter Hailee came into the snake room and asked it she could get up there. These snakes live on an upper tier of enclosures.
I told her she could so she grabbed a stool and joined me.
Within seconds she screamed and jumped done yelling/crying "Daisy bit me" She showed me her finger and I did see two bite marks and blood.
I asked her what happened? She said she just reach in to touch Daisy.
This doesn't surprise me at all since 99% of the time I'm the person they see. I'm just guessing that Daisy didn't know/trust Hailee enough to be touch.
I didn't blame Daisy at all for the incident. Just who did Hailee think she was.:D
I love my Hailee but really:rolleyes::D

ProXimuS

06-12-2012, 06:33 PM

Daddy's girls:D

I like the story on the first post of this thread. I wouldn't think they would notice something like glasses that much. That does show how intelligent and aware they are:)

guidofatherof5

06-12-2012, 06:37 PM

The interesting thing is I can now take my glasses off in the snake room and they remember it's me.
I have learned that hats on my head don't seem to bother them. Please, no bald jokes.:D

ProXimuS

06-12-2012, 06:42 PM

I'm surprised a hat wouldn't bother them, but no glasses would :p

guidofatherof5

06-12-2012, 06:47 PM

Was there a bald joke/reference in there Emily?:D

ProXimuS

06-12-2012, 06:52 PM

No no I promise!:)

d_virginiana

06-12-2012, 10:51 PM

I always feel a little proud of my snakes when they prefer me over a new person holding them :rolleyes: Especially if it's one of those people who insist that snakes can't recognize people. It's really funny when it's Houdini doing it... Harley can see the new person and just avoid them if she wants, but Houdini will put his head on them, do a couple tongue flicks and then do a blatant 180 if he doesn't know them.

guidofatherof5

07-19-2012, 09:24 PM

As I walked past Shyblue's enclosure I didn't see any snakes out so I yelled into the enclosure "Shyblue". When I did 4 heads popped out of the hides. I yelled again and they reacted with quick head movement as if they were looking for food. I yelled a final time and they once again reacted to the sound with the same head movement.
I find this very interesting. Their hearing may be more acute then we realize.

EasternGirl

07-20-2012, 07:50 AM

Last night I was feeding the babies and every snake in every enclosure in the room came out looking for food. Either they have an extremely strong sense of smell...or they have figured out how I act when I am feeding snakes and watch my motions and know it means food is around...how incredibly intelligent!

Eight

07-20-2012, 03:58 PM

This is a great thread Steve. I've noticed a few of my snakes reacting to my voice, but I put it down to it being a little deeper and having a little more bass to it, but I'll be sure to pay more attention to noise now.

The main thing I've noticed is how my snakes react to someone's mood. If I let someone nervous of snakes handle them or get them out they react completely differently to when I or someone comfortable with them does the same. That is with the exception of one of my kings. He has an alpha male superiority complex, which leads to a Mexican stand off once a week or so. After that he's a soft puppy snake

guidofatherof5

07-20-2012, 11:31 PM

I observed some interesting behavior from the W/C female that produced the B/W radixes. I separated her out to breed with the W/C albino male and her attitude really changed. She went from calm and relaxed to scared and jumpy. Even striking at me. This behavior continued until I put her back in with her original group of females. Within an hour of putting her back she returned to her calm and relaxed ways. I know there are many other variables in this situation but it is interesting how calm she is with her own group of buddies.

guidofatherof5

04-09-2013, 08:37 PM

Last Sunday ChareiHeals (Kelsey) visited the Ranch. As I showed her and husband (Matt) around the snake room I opened the adult male T.radix enclosure because my largest male was out begging.
I was showing Kelsey what a large male he was when she reached out to touch him. He immediately tried to bite her. She reached from behind his head so he didn't see it coming. I think this is important to the situation because I was already holding him with both hands.
I believe he didn't recognize her touch and reacted to that. He was comfortable with me as I've held him hundreds of times before but this was a strange touch from someone he didn't know.
Not very scientific but interesting anyway.

Sherrie

04-10-2013, 08:50 AM

Our's definitely doesn't like me. Lol. I am a bit nervous with him. I try not to be, but I've never been a snake person (before we discovered garters, anyway) and I'm definitely better than I was, but still need to work on it. My son is great with him and you can just see how relaxed Morpheus is with my son, but the second I touch him, he tenses up and trys to get away. I am the one who feeds him though, so he does poke his head out when I come around. Lol.

Varanus

04-10-2013, 10:57 AM

Its a pretty basic observation but is still something that has stuck out to me. Namely until I got my checkereds I never thought about snakes having to do anything to stay clean, they just seemed to always be naturally clean animals.

Then I noticed after eating a worm mine will often wipe their mouth off on the plastic tub they are fed in. Pretty neat in how well it works, since I have to wash my hands to get worm slime off effectively, course I don't have scales.

Sherrie

04-10-2013, 11:13 AM

Our checkered does that too and if wiping his mouth off doesn't work well enough, then he'll just go for a swim. :)

gordonthegarter

04-10-2013, 11:50 AM

I love the face wiping ;) it's too cute. My European Starling would do it too after eating. Of course I was the napkin and my lab, while on walks, will come up next to me all lovey dovey just to use me to wipe off drool and continue on his way :rolleyes:

So funny the little things animals do.

I was taking the dogs out into the backyard just a little bit ago and Violet was happily on my hand and when we went out the tongue started going but she seemed more nervous than excited to be outdoors. She worked her way up my arm and sat on my shoulder/neck until we went back inside. Wasn't even cold out. My big brave W/C garter :D

Varanus

04-10-2013, 02:33 PM

I was taking the dogs out into the backyard just a little bit ago and Violet was happily on my hand and when we went out the tongue started going but she seemed more nervous than excited to be outdoors. She worked her way up my arm and sat on my shoulder/neck until we went back inside. Wasn't even cold out. My big brave W/C garter :D
It's not a matter of being brave or not, a garter knows that being out in the open in the outdoors equals being vulnerable to anything big enough to eat it. A wild garter that doesn't stay nervous and alert in such a situation is a foolish garter and yours clearly isn't.

Course snakes also know that they can fit into places most other creatures can't reach, hence why they are far more confident near or partially in hiding places.

Foxrun402

04-12-2013, 03:08 PM

I believe you 100% on them being curious about what goes on around them... Simply sitting here typing always brings Suzi out of her hide when she hears the keys being pressed... lol... EVERY TIME! not just once in a while... if she hears something, she has to check it out, but from a safe location in her place always halfway hidden, but watching me. lol :D

guidofatherof5

04-12-2013, 04:00 PM

It's more of feeling what's going on rather than hearing.;) I think they pickup vibrations/sound with what limited hearing they do have.

ConcinusMan

04-14-2013, 04:16 PM

I believe you 100% on them being curious about what goes on around them... Simply sitting here typing always brings Suzi out of her hide when she hears the keys being pressed... lol

Not likely they can hear that.:cool:

guidofatherof5

06-06-2013, 07:51 PM

Here's a funny one for you.

Yesterday, I was sitting in my regular food prep spot. It's right in front of the male radix enclosure. Those males have become very good at begging at the screen. So much so that I don't feed them at a set time. They get fed as I prepare food for all the other snakes.
While I prepared some night crawlers the usual group of males gathered at the screen. I opened the door and they all (4 of them) jockeyed for position. My largest male (as big as some of my females) took a night crawler and headed to the other end of the paddock. In hot pursuit was a much smaller reddish male. He caught up with the other male and grabbed the worm, pulling it completely out of the larger snakes mouth. Now, that snake headed to the other end with the larger male in pursuit. The larger male caught up and took the worm away. Now it was back to the other end with the smaller male chasing him. As I opened the other door the two snakes were in a tug of war with the worm. I broke it in half and ended the shenanigans. It was fun to watch this battle take place. Both snakes though they had the right to the worm.
I love watching and interacting with these awesome snakes.

ConcinusMan

06-07-2013, 08:27 AM

Interesting thing just happened. I have a northwestern that has been extremely shy, flighty and nervous. Also held out on eating for over a month but didn't lose any weight that I could tell so I continued to hold out hope that she would make a suitable captive. Well.... she finally took a good meal of fish and worms off the hemostats. Her attitude did a 180 after that. Now she's as friendly and inquisitive as miss piggy was and greets me, begging for food when I approach. That's after just one feeding. They're certainly no dummies.

Lowfur

06-07-2013, 10:45 AM

Your not you when your hungry, lol

Foxrun402

06-07-2013, 11:32 AM

Haha! I was about to attempt to get these 3 Radix I took in for a short while to eat... No clue how they will act, at the moment they're friendly and bold... I just hope they dont start a riot over some worms! be a first time for me lol!

guidofatherof5

06-07-2013, 09:38 PM

Creatures of habit.

I've been cleaning cages for the past few weeks and been trying a new substrate. It's coated with activated charcoal so it's very dark. I've noticed the snakes are a little leery about it. They head to the vines when I first put them back in. For some it's taken a couple days to finally try the new stuff out. The Northwesterns are on day six and only a couple out of the 8 have tried it out. Such funny little snakes.

Foxrun402

06-08-2013, 07:12 AM

Activated charcoal is used to treat poisonings, reduce intestinal gas (flatulence (http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/gas-flatus-topic-overview)), lower cholesterol levels, prevent hangover, and treat bile flow problems (cholestasis (http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/cholestasis)) during pregnancy (http://www.webmd.com/baby/default.htm).

How does it work?Activated charcoal is good at trapping chemicals and prevents their absorption.'

Prevents Hangover?!?!?! omg this stuff is amazing lol!

guidofatherof5

06-08-2013, 07:37 AM

It also keeps smelly garters from being as smelly.;)

Foxrun402

06-08-2013, 08:00 AM

guidofatherof5

06-08-2013, 09:27 AM

guidofatherof5

06-08-2013, 10:14 AM

That is awesome! I like how the aspen works but I think I've just become addicted to how well it makes the enclosure look... I dont notice much smell from the tank but then again if I see poo its taken out asap! Lol! could you provide a picture of the floor of a viv using the activated charcoal substrate? I'm curious... :D

I was first leery about this bedding when I saw it was pine but then I read where they remove the oils and aromatics so I decided to give it a try. I was in a bind for bedding so I picked a few 20 pound bags up.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/bedding11.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/bedding4.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/bedding21.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/bedding31.jpg