Eye problem with new puget? Advice please! [Archive]

Charis

09-20-2009, 03:25 PM

I noticed yesterday that my new female puget has one eye just slightly larger than the other, but it looked like the other one other than that. Today however I saw that the eye was all dark, couldn't see the pupil & that there was a bit of milky white at the buttom of the eye that was getting bigger even as I watched. Now the eye is almost all milky white. What do you think caused it? Should I take her to the vet? She's been rubbing that eye against the cage walls quite a bit, but other than that doesn't seem to be distressed or in pain. The pics aren't very good but hopefully you can see what I'm talking about. They were taken awhile ago & the eye is whiter now. There is two of the affected eye & one of the other eye. Thanks in advance for any advice!

Charis

09-20-2009, 04:35 PM

I got out all my snake books & only one made any mention of eye problems (the BP book) and that was talking about infections. I also told the breeder about it & she thought it might be a retained eye cap from her last shed. So I put a little bit of organic virgin coconut oil on the eye, I've used that once on one of my corns that had a really bad shed including retained eye caps & afterwards it all came off in one piece. It's also a very strong anti-bacterial, anti-fungul as well so it should help with either problem. I'm still open to any other suggestions on what it is or what to do about it though.

mustang

09-20-2009, 05:08 PM

well it maybe how ur looking at it ...i thought my snake had an inperfect eye but it really isnt.... maybe it is though.....maybe eyes on a snake are like feet size (one is bigger than other

guidofatherof5

09-20-2009, 05:13 PM

It sounds like a Vet. trip might be called for. If the eye is bigger than something is effecting the pressure within or behind the eye. I think a Vet. visit would be very helpful. I've had snakes with retained eye caps and that problem fixed itself with the next shed. Before that shed my Vet. told me to apply mineral oil to the eye twice a day. Good luck and please keep us informed about the situation.

gregmonsta

09-20-2009, 05:14 PM

It does sound like it could be a retained eyecap. The pictures aren't very clear. Try the steps for removing the eyecap and if this doesn't work I would suggest a vet visit. One of my snakes suffered an eye infection this year - http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/5220-eyes-dont-seem-right.html

Charis

09-25-2009, 08:50 AM

Tikki's eye is all white & twice the size of the other eye & that side of her face is swollen up so she can't close her mouth on that side now. I've got an appointment at the vet for 11:30 today. Hope she can do something for her!! Will post what the vet has to say.

GarterGeek

09-25-2009, 11:00 AM

I can't help you, but I wish you luck! Eye problems are scary.

Charis

09-25-2009, 01:19 PM

The vet says she has an infection in the globe of the eye & into the surrounding sinus. She gave her a shot of Baytril & we are supposed to give one every other day, 8 more shots. The vet said at best she is going to lose that eye & has about a 50/50 chance of living. So guess we'll see how she does. It will really suck if she dies, as I'm already very fond of her, she has a great personality.

guidofatherof5

09-25-2009, 02:48 PM

Your snake is in our prayer and I want to say thanks for taking the extra time, money and effort to help her. Baytril is good stuff.
Keep us informed and if you can post a photo of the eye. That would help the rest of us in identifing this type of problem in the future.
She's a beautiful snake and I wish her the best of luck in this fight. My whole family is pulling for her.

gregmonsta

09-25-2009, 03:10 PM

Fingers crossed ;) ... Baytril did the job for Xerxes.

Charis

09-25-2009, 03:33 PM

The one thing I'm really not looking forward to is giving her the next shot, I HATE needles! At least I have my Mom who will hold her, if I didn't have anyone to help that would be really bad. Here's a few more pics, think I need to get a better camera, this one doesn't do so good.

car24

09-25-2009, 03:38 PM

What causes this infection? Did the vet say?

guidofatherof5

09-25-2009, 04:09 PM

Thanks for posting the photos.
How is she doing? Is her attitude the same as before the infection. I have a radix that is blind in one eye(wild injury). Patch is doing great.
Your snake will probably lose the use if that eye but she will do fine with just one. She has you to help her.

Charis

09-25-2009, 06:37 PM

First, I forgot to say thank you for the kind thoughts & prayers, they are very much appreciated! The vet didn't say why she thought Tikki's eye became infected, but as I understand it, it can happen from a number of causes. Like an injury to the eye, say they rubbed it too hard on a sharp object in the cage, bacteria getting under a retained eye cap & a number of other similar ways.
I think Tikki was actually already having problems with the eye when I got her, that was 8 days ago. I looked them both over fairly good when they got here & I remember catching a glimpse of something a little off with the female's eye, but looked at it again & didn't really see anything at that time. However about two days later (I was trying to leave them alone so they could de-stress from being shipped) I did notice that one eye was just a bit bigger than the other, I noted it & decided to watch it but didn't have any idea what it was or think much of it until the next day when I could see it was quite a bit bigger & starting to turn white. (I don't blame the breeder for not seeing anything wrong BTW) She's been very calm from the get-go, is alert & interested, but not hyper. I'm also a member of cornsnakes .com & someone on there has a corn that is 21 or 23yrs old, I don't remember which, but it's been blind in both eyes for 11yrs & does quite well, so she should do okay with just one eye. The vet did say that she will definitely lose the eye, that it should turn black & shrivel up.

guidofatherof5

09-25-2009, 06:48 PM

I didn't know she was so new to you. Double great job on getting her some help.

count dewclaw

09-25-2009, 07:39 PM

Good job getting her some help. She may have been jostled around too much during shipping.

Charis

09-26-2009, 10:06 AM

The vet had told me that I probably wouldn't see any improvement until around the 4th shot but this morning her mouth is a little less swollen. It's still quite swollen right under the eye but the swelling towards her nose has gone down. Yea! Just hope it continues to go down. I'm supposed to try feeding her some two day old guppies I have today, she hasn't eaten since I got her. Now hopefully with the swelling down a little she will eat easier.

mustang

09-26-2009, 02:44 PM

great job so far...ask how/if the remnants of the shriviled up eye will come out...also im very curious bout this so i have to ask....if the ey is shrivled up wont the socket be exposed and itll be prone to more infections? and whats that white thing on the snakes eye in ur pics? or is it the eye? wil it stay on? and where do u administer a snake shot?

Charis

09-26-2009, 03:31 PM

She said that the eye won't fall off, we asked because it looks like it should just pop out right now, she said it would shrivel up & be hard to see. That is a good question about more infections, I'll have to ask the vet. She has treated two other snakes with the same kind of infection, a rubber boa & a gopher snake, the rubber lived but the gopher died. Yes, that huge white thing is the eye. We're supposed to give the shot just under the skin, pretty much anywhere on the upper body of the snake. Once the shot is given, for about 30 min. or so, there is a fairly big bubble under the skin.

mustang

09-26-2009, 06:43 PM

dang it must be in a lot of pain is it sensitive to touch?

Charis

09-27-2009, 10:34 PM

The eye? Or the injection site? I think the eye at the least itches, she rubs it on the walls quite a bit. The shot seems to bug her while it's being given, but then she calms down & seems normal. We try not to touch her at the injection site just after & then I don't handle her at all for at least a few hours. The needle doesn't leave a mark you can see, it's pretty fine, 29 gauge. She doesn't seem to display any of what I'd consider signs that she's in pain, though with a snake that is sometimes hard to tell. The swelling has gone down a lot, the lip just under the eye is still a tiny bit swollen. And I think the eye itself is slightly less swollen too. It is starting to go a kinda drownish color. She did eat one baby guppie yesterday, I'm hoping tomorrow she'll eat several. Here's a few pics from just after she got her 2nd shot.

guidofatherof5

09-28-2009, 05:27 AM

Keep up the good work. I think as long as she's eating she's on the road to recovery.
Nice job caring for her.

KITKAT

09-28-2009, 11:52 AM

Keep us posted on how she is doing!:eek:

justme

09-28-2009, 04:48 PM

Hi Charis,

I know you were really excited in getting your Pugets and I am happy to hear your little gal is on the road to recovery! Pugets are my very first garters and I LOVE THEM so I have been following this thread closely, anticipating a positive outcome. Oh, and I think it is very cute that your mom is your partner in holding the snake and everything! Now, how cool is that?!!! ;-)

Please keep us updated! We are all cheering and wishing the best! ;-)

Charis

09-28-2009, 10:32 PM

I'd tried feeding Tikki earlier today & she refused, but we're having some road work done right outside the house & all my snakes have been weird since the whole house has been shaking all day, so I decided to try again a few minutes ago since it had been quiet for a few hours. She ate SIX fairly good sized guppies!!!

guidofatherof5

09-29-2009, 05:16 AM

mustang

09-29-2009, 10:56 AM

wow that eye is huge it looks like some one played pool with her eye! great job so far! is the eye gettn smaller? have you asked the vet bout infections after the eye is shriviled up and the socket is exposed?

jitami

09-29-2009, 02:11 PM

Nice job with Tikki. I appreciate the pictures, as well. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

mustang

10-02-2009, 10:48 AM

how is the eye doin? let me rephrase that hows the snake doin?

Charis

10-02-2009, 11:20 AM

She is doing well, so far. There was a lot of improvement for the first 4 days or so, but now it's slowed down to where it's hard to see any improvement. But she is eating really well, she's a little pig now! I talked to the vet & she said that the eye socket shouldn't be any more prone to more infections than it was before. Also said that this type of infection is not contagious, I'd forgotten to ask her that when we first went to her & had been treating it like it was, just in case. But she said it isn't contagious either. Thanks again eveyone for all the support!

commongartersnake

10-03-2009, 11:58 AM

Bring to a vet, even if there's nothing wrong. At least you know whats happening. :eek:Urgent care VET

mustang

10-03-2009, 08:34 PM

ask vet for a discount apparently uv been a repeating customer :)

Thunder.x.Tiger

10-03-2009, 09:18 PM

Awww poor little thing! I'll pray tonight that she gets better...

Charis

10-03-2009, 09:39 PM

Actually that turned out pretty good, one reason I hadn't been happy about going to the vet was because we'd lost confidence in the vet we'd been going to & hadn't found another one. We'd been to two other vets after our long time one & didn't like either of those. The one I eventually picked only does small & exotic animals. We'd gone to her about 17 yrs ago to have my Mom's dog put back together after she'd been mauled by 3 Shar-pei & had really liked her, but after we moved the other vet was easier to get to. I really liked this one, she seemed knowledgeable & to like snakes. All the staff had to come back to the exam room to check out the beautiful little garter snake. It even only cost me in the low range of what I'd been expecting!

Charis

10-09-2009, 09:38 AM

We give the last shot to Tikki today! The BP I was baby sitting finally went to his new home, so they got to move out of their temp. plastic shoe box homes into their 10 gallon home. Rikki really likes the piece of drift wood he's sitting on in the pic. Rikki's in the foreground & Tikki is in the background getting a drink in the other pic. The side of her face is still a bit swollen & doesn't seem to be getting better or at least not so you can tell, but she eats real good & is alert and active. Also should mention that the vet had told me to put Tikki in a higher temp, like 86 to 89 degrees to up her immune system, I had already done that because all my snake books said to do that for an URI.

gregmonsta

10-09-2009, 10:37 AM

If she's still eating and looks perky it's a good sign. Keeping fingers crossed for her ;)

guidofatherof5

10-09-2009, 08:23 PM

Charis

10-09-2009, 08:36 PM

That's good to know! At least she doesn't click when she breathes anymore. The eye is quite a bit better too, when it was at it's worst the scales around it were stretched so much that the skin between them was tight. Now the scales lay against each other again & you can't see skin. I'll have to try & get a good picture of it now.

guidofatherof5

10-09-2009, 08:58 PM

I think your doing a great job.
I'm so glad Tikki has you as a pet. Thanks for all your efforts on her behalf.
Keep shoveling that food in. Having the heat up is also a good thing.

mustang

10-13-2009, 10:58 AM

Great goin so far....could u post more pics of the eye please....is it still that HUGE?

Charis

10-13-2009, 11:27 AM

Here's a few pics. Two from today & two from about four days ago. Not much difference.

guidofatherof5

10-13-2009, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the update. It's hard to look at but sounds like Tikki is adjusting.

mustang

10-15-2009, 10:52 AM

wow ...its still HUGE

Charis

10-25-2009, 06:58 PM

I finally got some pics of Tikki's fat lip.

mustang

10-25-2009, 07:08 PM

its still big jeez how much pain can that poor snake endure?

guidofatherof5

10-25-2009, 07:15 PM

Is Tikki still eating?
Do you have another Vet. trip planned? It looks like that area needs drained. It looks to me like the eye area has gotten bigger. Another visit may be in order. Keep us posted.

Odie

10-25-2009, 07:23 PM

I concur :(

mustang

10-25-2009, 07:30 PM

i agree :(

Elliot_H

10-25-2009, 08:31 PM

I've heard of cases where this happens to BP's (happened to mine luckily it was just a retained eye cap) and something was blocking some gland under the eye. I guess as soon as that was removed the eye drained fairly quickly. I've also heard of having to physically drain the eye by applying pressure. I'm not advising you to do this its just something I've come across.

Charis

10-25-2009, 10:31 PM

I'd taken her to pretty much the best exotics vet around here. She told me that they isn't much else she can do with a snake Tikki's size, that either the Baytril would work or it wouldn't. There is a vet she told me about in Salt Lake Utah that could do the procedure to drain her eye, they knock the snake out, then go up in through the roof of the mouth & drain the eye. She said doing that would improve Tikki's chances. But there are 3 reasons I don't want to try that until it's totally necessary. 1 I'm not comfortable with them knocking out a snake her size, that seems pretty risky to me. 2 The minimum price for the other vet is $500 & would probably cost more. 3 The vet is 2 & 1/2 hours away & we would need to get a motel to go to him. Since the swelling has gone down a lot & she still eats great, is active, alert & doesn't seem to be in any pain I haven't made an appointment with that other vet, though I will if any of the above changes. Here's some more pictures for size reference, taken tonight. She's actually grown quite a bit since I got her.

gregmonsta

10-26-2009, 04:40 AM

My vet said that with a small snake like a garter the draining of the eye is really the very last result. It took 2 months and 2 sheds before Xerxes sorted out his eye trouble. Give it some more time ;)

Charis

04-04-2010, 05:11 PM

Just to update Tikki's condition. She's still eating, shedding, ect. well. And the eye is finally starting to turn black & shrink a bit. It is still about twice the size of the other eye. However, the fat lip under the eye has gone almost totally back to normal, I'm very pleased with how it looks. I've got a new camera coming that is supposed to have a really good macro setting, so I'll try to get some good pictures when it gets here.

guidofatherof5

04-04-2010, 05:47 PM

Thanks for the update. Does it look like Tikki is getting any use out of the bad eye?

Charis

04-04-2010, 06:18 PM

No, it's totally destroyed. I think she pretty much lost all use of it when it first started to turn white. She gets along without seeing with that eye well, though. It's started to dimple & looks pretty awful, but according to the vet, this is good & what it should be doing. Though in one way it looks worse, I do have to say that in another way it does look better. Right now it looks like it's dying & drying out, where before it looked like it was full of puss & should've burst at any moment. I don't remember if I already said this, but the vet told me it could be around a year before it heals up completely.

guidofatherof5

04-04-2010, 07:27 PM

In captivity it shouldn't present to much of a problem.
Glad Tikki has such good care.

gregmonsta

04-05-2010, 07:02 AM

I'm sure she'll adapt and will go on to do well for you ;)

Charis

04-10-2010, 02:03 PM

Tikki shed sometime last night & the eye came off in the shed! It's kind of raw there, so I thought I'd put something on there like Neosporin. (sp?) Do you guys know of any reason why that wouldn't be good to put in the eye sockett? I'm going to call the vet, but she won't be in until Monday. I've got her in a separate tub on paper towels so nothing gets stuck to it. Here's some pictures of the eye sockett, they were taken with the old camera & aren't great. I tried to take some of the eye that came off with the shed but they didn't turn out, so I'll try & get some better ones later. It looks like the white flesh in the sockett is hanging way out in the pics, but it actually isn't.

guidofatherof5

04-10-2010, 03:36 PM

I don't see how neosporin could hurt but since the eye is gone. You've taken such good precaution by putting her in a container with paper towels, waiting until Monday may be prudent.
Call your local Walgreen's and ask the Pharmacist about putting neo in an eye. I think they make neosporin eye drops.

gregmonsta

04-10-2010, 04:35 PM

You're taking the right steps. Definately consult your vet about the use of eyedrops/etc. I would just keep her temps up and keep her sanitary (as you have). Snakes with missing eyes are found in the wild so I think waiting for Monday will be a big risk considering the steps you've already taken ;)

prattypus

04-10-2010, 08:54 PM

OUCH! Well, if it wasn't working (her eye)- I guess the best thing is that it was kicked out. Good luck with her.

drache

04-11-2010, 04:54 AM

from what i can see in the photos, it looks like healthy pink flesh underneath, and that should heal nicely
I would think that it'll just scab over anyway, but neosporin can prevent bacterial infection

gregmonsta

04-11-2010, 05:11 AM

You're taking the right steps. Definately consult your vet about the use of eyedrops/etc. I would just keep her temps up and keep her sanitary (as you have). Snakes with missing eyes are found in the wild so I think waiting for Monday will not be a big risk considering the steps you've already taken ;)

Ooops :rolleyes: what a change correcting lazy typing makes.

Charis

04-11-2010, 06:55 AM

Yeah, it looks like healthy flesh right now. Probably will see about some drops to help prevent it getting infected. I had to have a pretty big chunk of skin removed from my foot & was supposed to pack it with Neosporin but used too much of it & the skin around the wound started to die. I forget what that's called, but I don't want something like that to happen with her eye & as small as it is, making sure to use enough but not too much will be difficult. But I'll see what the vet says.

prattypus

04-11-2010, 08:05 AM

is it necro-something?

Charis

04-11-2010, 08:10 PM

Yeah, it had necro something or other in there. It had to do with flesh dying from not getting enough air due to too much moisture.

Charis

06-08-2010, 06:00 PM

Tikki shed for the first time since losing the eye last night! All in one piece & with two eye caps. The socket looks a bit better now, so I'm guessing it will just keep getting better after every shed. I haven't been weighing her as much as I should, but I think she is growing much faster now too. She has caught up to Rikki & I think might even be passing him a bit now.

guidofatherof5

06-08-2010, 06:05 PM

That is great news but I must request a photo, please. Nice job working with Tikki.
Eye problems are usually pretty tough to work with and it sounds like you've done a great job.

ConcinusMan

06-09-2010, 02:07 AM

Awesome news. I'm sure that without your attention and quick action / vet care, that snake would have died. Good job!

Charis

06-09-2010, 07:38 PM

I will try & get some decent shots of Tikki tomorrow.

Charis

06-20-2010, 11:50 PM

I tried to get some pictures of Tikki but she didn't want to cooperate & none of them turned out. The eye does look quite a bit better. I'll have to try again for some pictures in a bit.

Charis

06-21-2010, 11:40 AM

Okay, got a few fairly decent pictures with the new camera today. There are two of the socket & one of her other eye. Then one that shows how much her swollen lip has gone down.

guidofatherof5

06-21-2010, 12:19 PM

Tikki is looking good.
You've done a great job, Doc.

mustang

06-21-2010, 12:29 PM

great job

Mommy2many

06-21-2010, 03:43 PM

Glad to see she's doing well.

Napta

06-22-2010, 02:57 PM

Selkielass

07-02-2010, 05:48 PM

Wow, what a tough little girl!
I'm glad to hear she is doing well- too bad you can't outfit her with a Little pirate hat and eyepatch...

guidofatherof5

07-02-2010, 06:25 PM

Wow, what a tough little girl!
I'm glad to hear she is doing well- too bad you can't outfit her with a Little pirate hat and eyepatch...

Arrrr you crazy:D Sorry, I just had to.:)

Charis

07-15-2010, 03:17 PM

Tikki shed again today. The eye looks a little bit better. Guess it will keep getting slightly better every time she sheds. Also weighed her today totally empty. She is 12 grams. Is that a fairly decent size for a female garter that is almost a year old? Her birth day is the 26th of this month, if I'm remembering correctly. Any gain in weight is good I'm sure, just wondering how far behind she might be.

Charis

09-16-2010, 09:34 PM

Just thought I'd update this. Weighed Tikki empty about two weeks ago & she weighed 21 grams. She's still going strong & seems to be going through a growth spurt.

ConcinusMan

09-17-2010, 07:05 AM

Cool. Glad to hear she's doing well. Thanks for the update.

guidofatherof5

09-17-2010, 07:17 AM

Just thought I'd update this. Weighed Tikki empty about two weeks ago & she weighed 21 grams. She's still going strong & seems to be going through a growth spurt.

We need to see an updated photo of Tikki. Please.

Charis

09-17-2010, 02:38 PM

Here are a few pics I just took. She is fine to stay on your hands & twine through your fingers but set her down anywhere & she's off like a shot. There is one of the missing eye, it can be difficult to see that it isn't there now. For size, I have small hands & wear a size 3 ring on my ring finger, so that might give you a bit of an idea of how big she is.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Pugets/000_0100.jpg
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Pugets/000_0101.jpg
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Pugets/000_0098.jpg

guidofatherof5

09-17-2010, 02:49 PM

Tikki,
you are looking great. Tell your mom she did a good job.
Mom, nice job treating the eye. Way to go.;)

ConcinusMan

09-17-2010, 07:16 PM

If it's anywhere near the head such as nasal cavity, eye socket, mouth, etc...

It's more than just treating an eye. Probably saved the snakes life.

Good job!

Charis

09-17-2010, 07:26 PM

Yeah, the vet had been worried that the infection was so deep in the eye that it would have been a tiny hop to the brain if the Baytril didn't stop it soon enough.
I'm very happy with her progress & the socket looks very good. Awhile ago my brother came in & was looking at her & couldn't tell which one it was, as it's hard to tell that the eye is missing if you don't look really close.

guidofatherof5

09-17-2010, 07:38 PM

One eye or two, she's a beautiful snake.

gregmonsta

09-18-2010, 06:41 AM

One eye or two, she's a beautiful snake.

:D ditto

Odie

09-18-2010, 10:19 AM

One eye or two, she's a beautiful snake.
Tritto :rolleyes:

guidofatherof5

09-18-2010, 10:29 AM

Tritto :rolleyes:

I believe you've created a new word. Nice.;)

Odie

09-18-2010, 10:50 AM

Just kinda flowed out :D

Charis

09-18-2010, 10:50 AM

Quaditto! Agreed. :D

guidofatherof5

09-18-2010, 10:58 AM

Quaditto! Agreed. :D

OK, now you're showing off:D

Charis

09-26-2010, 01:50 PM

Here are two more pics of Tikki just after she got done eating last night. The missing eye looks just like it is in shed rather than missing.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Pugets/000_0136.jpg
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Pugets/000_0135.jpg

guidofatherof5

09-26-2010, 02:49 PM

Doesn't look like Tikki has missed any meals. Looks good.
Nice Job.

gregmonsta

09-26-2010, 03:04 PM

It's hardly noticeable ;) she looks great!!!

Charis

01-16-2011, 09:14 PM

Haven't been on the forums much. Unfortunately this saga doesn't have a happy ending.
Tikki had been doing wonderfully, going through a big growth spurt. Then about a month ago she started refusing food, she ate once or twice only, with me trying all the standby tricks to get a snake to eat. That didn't worry me too much but then about a week ago I noticed she was showing signs of neurological issues, stargazing type movements every now and then. She was thinner than when she started to refuse food but still strong feeling. But she was dead when I checked on her a minute ago, it's not a total surprise but still a bit shocking since I thought she was still fairly healthy. I wonder if the infection hurt something in her brain that took this long to affect her? I had been thinking about taking her to the vet this week if I couldn't get her to eat this next try but guess I waited too long.

kibakiba

01-16-2011, 09:21 PM

I'm so sorry about your loss, Charis.

ConcinusMan

01-16-2011, 10:13 PM

Sorry to hear that.:(

The eye issue definitely opens the door to infection of the brain and central nervous system. That's what I was worried about when you first told us about her. It's not far from the eye socket to the brain. When that happens, it progresses so fast, there's nothing you can do.

You did your best, and all that anyone else could have done.

Rest in peace Tikki.