cross breeding?

[jamromhem]

I have noticed several garters with similar patterns (or I just want to see em all checkered in appearance)

I was wondering if there was commonalities with garters being able to cross breed with different subs of garters.

Just a thought.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm sure where their ranges cross there is some cross breeding amongst the different groups. I think I read something about that but don't recall the book. I'll try to find it when I have some free time.:D

[mustang]

I have noticed several garters with similar patterns (or I just want to see em all checkered in appearance)

I was wondering if there was commonalities with garters being able to cross breed with different subs of garters.

Just a thought.
doubt it...mine i thought was a cross between checkerd and blackneck but it isnt checkers can have blotches on neck too

[Brewster320]

Hybrids are definately possible if thats what your asking. It may not have ever been proven but I'd think I'd be pretty safe to say all snakes in the genus Thamnophis(Garter and Ribbion Snakes) can interbreed. I'd also be willing to bet snakes in the genus Thamnophis can hybridnize with snakes in the genus Nerodia(Water Snakes), athough actaully getting two of these snakes to breed would be a lot more difficult.

[jamromhem]

I might have to try some experimentation along the way :P I think a red checkered would be absolutely gorgeous.

What do you think? :P

[Brewster320]

The problem with breeding snakes from the same genus is the fact that a lot of them look similar to begin with. If you crossed them the babies could be mistaken for either species. Unless your crossing animals that don't look anything a like (color, pattern, shape, or size wise) go for it, I'm all for hybrids.

[Stefan-A]

In my personal opinion, creating hybrids is the most pointless thing anyone could do with their snakes.

[Stefan-A]

I'd also be willing to bet snakes in the genus Thamnophis can hybridnize with snakes in the genus Nerodia(Water Snakes), athough actaully getting two of these snakes to breed would be a lot more difficult.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/592-garter-water-snakes-hybrid-possiblities.html

[gregmonsta]

In my personal opinion, creating hybrids is the most pointless thing anyone could do with their snakes.

Agreed, :rolleyes: don't want to end up polluting the CB bloodlines. There's just no need with garters. There are already so many species/subspecies/colour forms to choose from. The last thing I want to see is a morph overload in 'fashion' garters (equivalent to the madness in royal/corn morphs which has become extremely boring and simply ridiculous as far as money is concearned).

[gregmonsta]

I might have to try some experimentation along the way :P I think a red checkered would be absolutely gorgeous.

What do you think? :P

No .... no ..... and no! ... Not interested, never will be and you'll be hard pressed to find any serious garter keepers that would want one :p

P.s. - Just get a 'high-red' parietalis! - ie Red with a checker pattern ... or a red-phase radix - ie Red with a checker pattern .... or a red terrestris - ie Red with a checker pattern .... or an erythristic eastern - ie Red with a checker pattern .... etc ...

P.p.s. - couldn't ignore infernalis ...

[jamromhem]

yeah I was just noticing that there were already garters with the look that I wan tin them :P

So much for making my own cool hybrid :P nature stole my idea

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Yea, the carteret county erythristic eastern looks exactly like a red checkered actually... she's red... and perfectly checkered! I am not against hybrids completely because I must say, I have seen some incredibly cool hybrid snakes, but only really the ones that are like, really wacky unique crosses, like burmese python x ball pythons, bateaters, ball python x woma pythons, etc. Those are very very interesting, beautiful animals in their own way. I don't and never did see the point in crossing corn snakes with emoryi rat snakes because they look almost exactly the same and did nothing but confuse a lot of people and muddle genetics because they get passed for pure corns. The far out there hybrids... people can look at them and say oh, that is a hybrid. The ones that are closely related and leave you guessing... I am NOT a fan of. Kind of like the grayband x thayeri crosses or most of the other king/milk crosses. I would have no idea what I was looking at if people didn't tell me. I don't really see a point in hybridizing thamnophis though only because in my opinion there is no way you could make them any cooler looking and more distinct than they already are. When it comes to my garters I am a purist and I prefer selective breeding projects within species/subspecies. But I don't bring down those who choose to produce hybrids of any snake simply because I believe once a snake or any animal is born it's life is to be respected no matter if it's pure, a hybrid, even an accidental hybrid. Some people would cull animals like this but I personally don't agree with that. Sure, hybrids are not generally a natural thing, but neither is keeping snakes in captivity period, so if some people enjoy crossing species to make crazy cracked out looking snakes, and they can do so while honestly representing what they are, and the snakes are thriving, I can't judge them for that! But, I highly doubt that anything cool could come of thamnophis hybrids. They are just all too closely related and they already come in every color of the rainbow! They will just end up being sub par looking garters that some people have no idea what the heck they are looking at, accidentally label it one species or the other, and then genetics everywhere could become unintentionally tainted.

[jamromhem]

yeah I see the point. No real purpose with garters.

(I wonder if you can cross an egg snake with a garter?) just kidding. though a baby garter/eggsnake able to eat a fuzzy at birth would be interesting :P

I see the point of not hybridizing them though and saw the look that I was wanting in another thamnophis. might want to hold off on it though :P it might become my favorite :P.. don't want my checkered (who spends all of her time playing hide and seek under her substrate so I don't get to enjoy her without harassing her) to feel less loved.

[Brewster320]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/592-garter-water-snakes-hybrid-possiblities.html

Genera doesn't matter my bets are it could happen considering how cloesely related the two genera are. Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible. It has also been proven that different genus of pythons and boas can interbreed with each other (Not boas X pythons of course but with different genus of there own families). The ball python has even been crossed with the woma python which is amazing considering they are in different genus, one lives in Africa, othe other in Aussie, and the Woma doesn't even have heat pits which is a huge differnce! So to say a water x garter is impossible can't be proven until its tried.

As for garter hybrids. To be truthfully honest, if you don't include colors all garter look basicly the same body shape, size, structure, and pattern wise. there may be some small differences but once you cross two garters that difference is gone. then once you add morphs into the mix It'd be close to impossible to identify the hybrids. With any other group of snakes I'd give you the go ahead because I love hybrids but with garters, not a great idea with other garters atleast.

[Stefan-A]

Genera doesn't matter my bets are it could happen considering how cloesely related the two genera are. Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible. It has also been proven that different genus of pythons and boas can interbreed with each other (Not boas X pythons of course but with different genus of there own families). The ball python has even been crossed with the woma python which is amazing considering they are in different genus, one lives in Africa, othe other in Aussie, and the Woma doesn't even have heat pits which is a huge differnce! So to say a water x garter is impossible can't be proven until its tried.
Actually, I was just pointing out that it's not the first time the issue has been discussed.

[Brewster320]

Actually, I was just pointing out that it's not the first time the issue has been discussed.

I know. I was just putting my imput on the infomation in that thread because it seems that the final conculsion of that was that the cross would be impossible.

[gregmonsta]

(I wonder if you can cross an egg snake with a garter?) just kidding. though a baby garter/eggsnake able to eat a fuzzy at birth would be interesting :P


;) There actually was a report of a south American population of garters that have made the move towards raiding the eggs from birds nest in one of my issues of 'The Garter Snake' (EGSA newsletter). Thamnophis dasypeltissima is restricted to a network of islands and was first reported in 2007 on the Tauranga Atol and there have only been few biological observations of this species so far.

[Mike Spencer]

Although not 'hybrids' there are a lot of subspecies that will have an intergrade zone where two subspecies will successfully breed. In California, there is the Thamnophis atratus atratus X zaxanthus X hydrophilus intergrades and the Thamnophis elegans elegans X vagrans intergrades, both of which I find every year. Also, in Washington state, there is the Thamnophis sirtalis concinnus X pickeringi intergrades. I know there are others but I would have to check my notes. I'll get back on them.

[Stefan-A]

The Rossman et al. book has maps showing several intergrade zones.

[mustang]

in texas the checkered &blackneck overlap around helotes & san antonio

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

there's only one thing that bothers me. If you find a snake that is supposedly a hybrid and/or intergrade in the wild, that's all fine and dandy that you can come to that conclusion. But I see so many people looking at a WC hybrid and labeling it This x That... but the truth is you can't put a label on a snake like that for sure! Unless you are there to witness the lineage of that snake in the making, you absolutely cannot determine it to be a hybrid of two particular species or subspecies. Sure, you can speculate, given the location the snake is found, and the species that regularly inhabit the area, as well as the actual phenotype of the snake, but you still don't ever really know! And labeling that snake anything but "thamnophis hybrid/intergrade" is assuming things and not necessarily at all correct! Sorry... just a little something that has been bothering me for quite some time :o

[Brewster320]

there's only one thing that bothers me. If you find a snake that is supposedly a hybrid and/or intergrade in the wild, that's all fine and dandy that you can come to that conclusion. But I see so many people looking at a WC hybrid and labeling it This x That... but the truth is you can't put a label on a snake like that for sure! Unless you are there to witness the lineage of that snake in the making, you absolutely cannot determine it to be a hybrid of two particular species or subspecies. Sure, you can speculate, given the location the snake is found, and the species that regularly inhabit the area, as well as the actual phenotype of the snake, but you still don't ever really know! And labeling that snake anything but "thamnophis hybrid/intergrade" is assuming things and not necessarily at all correct! Sorry... just a little something that has been bothering me for quite some time :o

Never thought of it like that. I know there are some intergrades that are totally obvious but there others, especially thamnophis considering most have just about the same base patterns and/or colors with some variation between subspecies and species, that like you said are impossible to guess just by looking at them. Heres an example of a wild hybrid that I think would be hard to just say "Oh its this x this". I'm putting up it's picture just to see how many people can actually guess it correctly. Theres been DNA test done on a few of these animals so science know what it is, without that though it'd very hard to guess I think other than maybe one of it's parents. Hint: several of these animals have been found in California.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/Brewster320/pineking-1.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Lampropeltis getula californiae and Pituophis catenifer something.

[mustang]

looks like a gopher snake

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Beautiful picture of the Gopher-King! I have seen pics of this occasional wild hybrid before. Fascinating, since Pituophis will usually end up in the belly of a king.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

there's only one thing that bothers me. If you find a snake that is supposedly a hybrid and/or intergrade in the wild, that's all fine and dandy that you can come to that conclusion. But I see so many people looking at a WC hybrid and labeling it This x That... but the truth is you can't put a label on a snake like that for sure! Unless you are there to witness the lineage of that snake in the making, you absolutely cannot determine it to be a hybrid of two particular species or subspecies. Sure, you can speculate, given the location the snake is found, and the species that regularly inhabit the area, as well as the actual phenotype of the snake, but you still don't ever really know! And labeling that snake anything but "thamnophis hybrid/intergrade" is assuming things and not necessarily at all correct! Sorry... just a little something that has been bothering me for quite some time :o

I agree that we shouldn't make so many assumptions. In the case of garters, I, personally, often am challenged by trying to identify just the local species, ssp., strains, phases, etc. While I do have a gut feeling about the possibility of hybridization at various localities in my region, the jury is still out to whether or not Mother Nature is just messing with my head. There is still so much we don't know about garters: their migration patterns, those that may vary from the norm (adapting to new environments, alternative prey), especially in light of man continuing to change their world; their frustrating genetics; etc.

Nature abhors a vacuum and evolution spits out new mutations behind our back, when we are not looking. For example, here in Humboldt, we have a new morph of infernalis. In one small secluded area, life-long residents in the area have discovered a blue variant, the likes of which you usually only see further south (i.e. Sonoma County). New genetics mutation? Introduced blue CB? Inbreeding? Change in diet? That last one is something I believe may be a neglected topic, but you are what you eat, right? The bottom line, as mentioned in the qoute, is - you just can't assume.

I am positive a few of the sightings on my website are anomalous; so, what do you name 'em?

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Many of the different generas between other North American Colubrids (Pantherophis, Lampropeltis, and Pituophis). Some of these have even been bred with some of the Asian Rat Snakes in the genus Elaphe which many would actually consider impossible.

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...

[ConcinusMan]

People in the snake trade are "gobbling up" hets for the weirdest traits in corns, kings, milks, pythons, etc.,

Meanwhile we have people (even garter enthusiasts) completely ignoring pairs for sale (het for, or even showing various traits including anery and amelanistic, melanistic) even though they are not cross bred. Sounds like people who buy garters pretty much want normal, beautiful representations of their garter species or ssp. Am I wrong? seems to be the trend.

[Brewster320]

I would love a link to any research or proof of North American / Asian crosses.
It appears that the cladistic tree is being rewritten here in NA; it almost sounds like you could call the whole NA group "North American Rat Snakes", although that wouldn't appear applicable to their behaviors, diets, etc. Think convergent evolution when comparing New and Old World snakes!

Last I read in the journals, the one snake that ties kings, milks, gophers, corns, and rats together is the Long-nosed Snake, which, based on cytochrome B analysis, shows it to be the colubrid most closely related to what was the common ancestor of them all!

Still, i have not heard of an NA/Asian hybrid and am curious...
I have infact seen pictures of a beauty snake x greenish rat and a japanse rat x corn snake. I think I have them saved some where, I'd have to find them. Japanese Rats x Corns seen the most common OW x NW hybrids, I've seen several pictures of these and people who own them, I've even seen the offspring of one of these snake that was bred back to a corn so it was 1/4 japanese and 3/4 corn. So they are atleast fertile if being bred back to a corn. I'll look for the pictures though.

[Brewster320]

Ok found them, This is the Twainese Beauty x Greenish Rat(Yellow x Black Rat intergrade). I don't know much about this snake, or if its even still alive. If it is it should be around breeding age now.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/Brewster320/beautyhybrid.jpg

And this is of the Japnese Rat x Corn. Its a fully mature adult male.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/Brewster320/japcorn1.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/Brewster320/japcorn.jpg
Please note I don't own either of these snakes and don't take any credit for their ownership.

[ConcinusMan]

Bottom line is, people are going to do it whether we agree with it or not! Let's just hope that the majority of them are responsible enough to keep these hybrids out of the wild. I have actually found a few gopher snakes myself that were questionable. I had never even considered that they might be hybrids, or decended from hybrids. Interesting.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Please note I don't own either of these snakes and don't take any credit for their ownership.

I don't want to doubt the crosses (the taiwan/green looks like a total cross), but was this just a verbal account with pictures? The picture of the japanese/corn looks ambiguous (almost like black rat features).

I am not really interested in hybrids in regards to herpetoculture. I am more interested in cladistic trees, and I am always enthralled when I hear of new possibilities that stretch the definitions of ssp., species, family, etc... What dormant genes still have the get-go to cross with a long lost cousin species and create viable reproducing offspring?

I am curious how many of the various hybrids out there are actually fully fertile. Often is the case (a lot of jungle corns for example) where male hybrids end up sterile, thus the female only has the option of reaffirming one species line or the other...

[Brewster320]

I don't want to doubt the crosses (the taiwan/green looks like a total cross), but was this just a verbal account with pictures? The picture of the japanese/corn looks ambiguous (almost like black rat features).

I am not really interested in hybrids in regards to herpetoculture. I am more interested in cladistic trees, and I am always enthralled when I hear of new possibilities that stretch the definitions of ssp., species, family, etc... What dormant genes still have the get-go to cross with a long lost cousin species and create viable reproducing offspring?

I am curious how many of the various hybrids out there are actually fully fertile. Often is the case (a lot of jungle corns for example) where male hybrids end up sterile, thus the female only has the option of reaffirming one species line or the other...
I actually got the pictures of the jap/corn from its onwer. She is a repected member on the rat snake foundation site.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Cool! So, that's a total slap in the face to the definitions of what we call species, genera, and even sub-families!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I have seen, in person, held in my hand, a black rat snake x beauty snake cross. I held it for almost ten minutes trying to figure out what the heck it was before a guy told me. And it made sense, it had features of both animals! I would see it as being similar to the ball python x woma python. Rare, but not impossible!

[Brewster320]

I have seen, in person, held in my hand, a black rat snake x beauty snake cross. I held it for almost ten minutes trying to figure out what the heck it was before a guy told me. And it made sense, it had features of both animals! I would see it as being similar to the ball python x woma python. Rare, but not impossible!
Wow that is awesome. You are so lucky, I would love to see that animal in person! That would be amazing.

[Stefan-A]

Cool! So, that's a total slap in the face to the definitions of what we call species, genera, and even sub-families!
Not really new in any way. If you've read The Origin Of Species, Darwin discusses hybrids and among other things their highly variable fertility and the distinction between species and varieties, at length. It's been known for a very long time, probably a lot longer than linnean taxonomy has been used, that the traditional definition of a species is not without exceptions.

Of course, the definition of a species as a group of individuals capable of interbreeding and capable of producing fertile offspring, IS the most concise definition.

[MasSalvaje]

Of course, the definition of a species as a group of individuals capable of interbreeding and capable of producing fertile offspring, IS the most concise definition.

I just wanted to add to your comment Stefan that it also has to do with geographic isolation.

Not that you were saying it but I have heard the argument that two seperate species should be combined into one just because they produce fertile offspring in someones basement somewhere, even though there is zero chance of them running into each other in the wild with out serious human intervention.

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

I just wanted to add to your comment Stefan that it also has to do with geographic isolation.

Not that you were saying it but I have heard the argument that two seperate species should be combined into one just because they produce fertile offspring in someones basement somewhere, even though there is zero chance of them running into each other in the wild with out serious human intervention.

-Thomas
Indeed. And I definitely wouldn't support that line of reasoning, either.

Often "can reproduce" is also replaced with "will under natural conditions reproduce". Many species will mate and produce hybrids in captivity, even if they generally won't or can't do it in the wild.

[MasSalvaje]

Indeed. And I definitely wouldn't support that line of reasoning, either.

Often "can reproduce" is also replaced with "will under natural conditions reproduce". Many species will mate and produce hybrids in captivity, even if they generally won't or can't do it in the wild.

Well said.

-Thomas

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Not really new in any way. If you've read The Origin Of Species, Darwin discusses hybrids and among other things their highly variable fertility and the distinction between species and varieties, at length. It's been known for a very long time, probably a lot longer than linnean taxonomy has been used, that the traditional definition of a species is not without exceptions.

Of course, the definition of a species as a group of individuals capable of interbreeding and capable of producing fertile offspring, IS the most concise definition.

I completely agree with you. My statement was actually referring to my locality and some of the attitudes I confront. It is quite likely that many Thamnophis populations maintain a "truer" lineage, so that they do indeed fit the classical definition of a species. In the Coastal Klamath area, however, I suspect the "rules" are being broken. In essence, we may have a geographical area here which harbors genes that challenges our breakdown of what we currently describe as 4 species. No one I talk to at the Redwoods Sciences Lab is willing to support the idea of a local "super race" - one that may absorb various known species into its cladistic heritage. Not surprisingly, many of the PhDs at the lab and HSU have done studies on these snakes way back when, so I suspect vanity and/or politics (i.e. fish and game protections) may be interferring with many of the projects trying to address the issue. I have too often witnessed self-righteousness and politics in the scientific community. It's just like these taxonomical battles between the lumpers and the splitters. Everyone wants to be right! Scientific truth is based on facts (which nature often rewrites). My biggest frustration is really the human arrogance which interfers with maintaining an open mind. The slap in the face goes to those not willing to at least acknowledge the possibility. This frustration isn't pointed at everyone; there are a plethora of similar studies being done all over the place, including here in California. In my remote section of NW CA though, there are still a lot of old-school academics with sticks up their arses. Forget priorities in unearthing new scienctific discoveries if they've got previously funded projects to maintain! They gotta keep those paychecks coming, even if the projects they've got going are a joke! I see some of the most fruitless projects (and timelines for those projects) in the national and state park systems, U.S. Fish and Wildlife, CA DFG, etc.

I understand genetics, geography, pheromones, ***** shapes, etc all play a big part in the continuing integrety of a species' lineage. I see most hybrids are human-aided crossings (NOT natural). There are exceptions. Gopher Kings (Pituophis X Lampropeltis) are rarely found in the wild, but they do occur in the wild for whatever reason (I would like to know). Considering the often orgiastic behavior of mating garters, I might surmise the possibilty of hybridization (even though under the classical definition it wouldn't really be hybridization anymore, right?). Perhaps some pheromonal mix-up, or perhaps just a really horny snake (They exist!) could be at play... We just don't know yet. We'll be chatting about this topic for threads to come. :)

Steve

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I understand genetics, geography, pheromones, ***** shapes, etc all play a big part in the continuing integrety of a species' lineage.

Wow! That applicably biological word was actually edited?

[ConcinusMan]

Ya know, I keep hearing people say that gopher-kings have been found in the wild. Guess where I'm hearing it? Forums. Only forums. Can't find a single reliable source, and only one picture, purported to be a wild hybrid. The same picture, over and over. So far, it's nothing but a rumor to me.

[Stefan-A]

Wow! That applicably biological word was actually edited?
I'm afraid these things happen. Even some scientific names seem to get censored.

[drache]

still trying to figure out what word it was that got edited - it's early; can someone please give me a few letters?
given the fact that my vagrans male got twitchy all over my concinnus male, I don't think hybridization is so unusual
some males have more drive (hormones - whatever) than others
when I was in college we used to joke about this human male we knew being interested in "everything but porcupines and barbed wire" - so why shouldn't there be snakes with that extra load of drive?

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

still trying to figure out what word it was that got edited

...the shapes of their phallus? Will that work?

[drache]

yeah - that helps
I suppose if they don't let you use the antiquated word for illegitimate child, this one would definitely be on their ****list - and yes, that word they would have actually let me use - I was a good girl and did my own stars

[ConcinusMan]

I'm afraid these things happen. Even some scientific names seem to get censored.

Certain forums will edit the word "Torrent" automatically too. I was referring to rain, not file sharing. Unfortunately, the auto-editing doesn't take words into context. Still the word we're talking about isn't censored anywhere in real life that I know of. It's not a dirty word. Heck, it's even used in elementary school classes as an acceptable way to refer to that male part. Another editing tactic is to make a sentence say "Ship list" instead of the alternative. Works for me. Maybe this forum could change it to say *enis. I dunno. Besides that, snakes have hemipenes. That doesn't get edited.

Staying on topic though, I always belived that the shape of the phallus prevented cross breeding in snakes. I'm learning otherwise. I know I'm quite a bit behind on breeding news. Crossbreeding was unheard of when I started in this hobby and even when it was accomplished it was considered taboo. Now it's all the buzz in breeding culture for creating "designer" snakes.

[MasSalvaje]

Now it's all the buzz in breeding culture for creating "designer" snakes.

I wouldn't say it is all the buzz, I would still lable it as taboo. Yes it is out there more but I think that has more to do with the advances in communication technology as oposed to a paradigm shift.

They always have the same Hybrid adds on the classifieds from all of the same breeders. I was next to a guy at a show that had a lot of hybrid stuff. At the end of the day he he had only sold one of the hybrids and it was to a 10 year old kid looking for a cheap "Cool" snake. I think the real hobbiest still prefer the "pure stuff."

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

I agree. I don't think I would buy a hybrid snake, no matter how "cool" it is.

Just to lighten things up a bit, and provide a tad bit of crude humor, check out this Family Guy clip. You have to watch it up to near the end. 50 seconds in, to be exact. When I saw it, I thought of the discussions about crossbreeding on this forum.

Here's the URL Hulu - Family Guy: Brian Makes A Point (http://www.hulu.com/watch/53755/family-guy-brian-makes-a-point)

[Stefan-A]

I agree. I don't think I would buy a hybrid snake, no matter how "cool" it is.

Just to lighten things up a bit, and provide a tad bit of crude humor, check out this Family Guy clip. You have to watch it up to near the end. 50 seconds in, to be exact. When I saw it, I thought of the discussions about crossbreeding on this forum.

Here's the URL Hulu - Family Guy: Brian Makes A Point (http://www.hulu.com/watch/53755/family-guy-brian-makes-a-point)
Only works within the US.

[ConcinusMan]

Ooops. I failed to consider that many of you are not in the U.S.A. I would really like for you to see that clip. Is it that the hulu website doesn't work at all, or just the clip? Darnit, you would have liked it. I'll try to explain.

Noah, in his ark, walks up to an elephant that has a penguin standing next to him. From behind comes a penguin with an elephants head. Noah says "what the hell is this?" The elephant replies "well, you didn't really give us an specific guidlines for breeding" Noah replies, "did you name him?" The elephant says "yes, his name is Paul"

Noah says, "well guess what? you're going to have a hell of time, because that f***er (referring to the hybrid) is going overboard!