is it is or is it ain't?

[stonyloam]

Everyone is so nice on this forum, and I don’t have anything better to do this afternoon, I thought I would stir up a little trouble. I have been trying to ID the snakes that have been visiting my sunroom, so I thought I would let you all. have a got at it. Is the little guy below:

A) T. s sirtalis eastern garter
B) T.s.pallidulus maritime garter

I am absolutely certain that it kinda, might, maybe be B. But what do I know? All opinions will be welcome, and I will go with the majority.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/garter.jpg

[Serpentine99]

My guess is Maritime, it just doesn't look like an Eastern.

[snakeman]

There is so little difference between these two subs.I have seen easterns that look like maritimes in pa.I am sure in every state there are some.They are so variable.At first glance I would say eastern.But ,There is no definite way to tell.

[rwgsnakes]

whats up with that???
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garter-2.jpg

[stonyloam]

No clue! It is a wild snake. There is another photo of it in my gallery. Anybody got a guess?

[KITKAT]

Stonyloam's pic looks almost identical to easterns that live in my yard. In fact, I suggested to Scott Felzer that I had a chocolate morph in my area...

I had one a few years back that was gravid, and birthed 20 offspring while in my care.

Here are pics... the first is a female, the second is a male...

BTW, is that a cloacalith in the photo posted in stonyloam's message below???

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/ruby2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/sam2a.jpg

[GarterGuy]

Well I'm sticking with T.s.pallidulus....it does look a lot like you're T.s.sirtalis KitKat, but from what I've read, it's the really light mid-dorsal stripe that seperates them. Yours has a very distinct mid-dorsal stripe while the other one is barely visible. Also, since it's from an area where T.s.pallidulus are from, puts me more on the Maritime side of things.
Roy

[stonyloam]

RWGsnakes was curious as to what the bump on the back end of the snake was. He (I think he) was out catching a few rays this afternoon so I picked him up and took a close look. It appears to be a healed over wound about 1 inch behind his vent. He had a couple of other scars on his belly, guess life can be kind of rough for a snake. Otherwise he looks healthy. He was a pretty cool little guy, didn't like being handled at first, but after a few minutes he calmed right down. When I released him he just stretched out and didn't try to escape. At first he appears to be plane brown snake, but up close in the sunlight he has really nice colors. I can see why you like them so much.

[KITKAT]

It appears to be a healed over wound about 1 inch behind his vent. He had a couple of other scars on his belly, guess life can be kind of rough for a snake.

My really huge Florida Blue female had scars, and was missing the tip of her tail. She was originally captured in someone's closet by a local herper, who sold her to me for $5. Not sure if the wounds were due to the resident owner of the closet, or lawn mower scars, but I did successfully treat them with neopolycin and had her for several years.

[GarterGuy]

Yeh, being small snakes, garters have a lot of predators and I know most of the ones I find in the wild have some sort of healed wounds on them. A lot of them have "short" tails from something taking a bite on them too.
Roy