Feeder guppy worm epidemic??

[DrKate]

I keep finding more and more stores in my area that sell feeder guppies, and I was really happy about that until this week...

I've been to four different aquarium or pet stores this week (some with very good reputations, some not so much) and every single one of them had a tank full of guppies with large beige/pink growths on them. And I mean really pretty large - over 1mm diameter and sticking out 1mm from the side of a guppy that's only 3mm across the shoulders. The growths can be anywhere - head, gills, body, tail. Not on the fins, though. And usually just 1 per fish, sometimes 2. If they're in a pigmented area they can be pigmented, too. At first I thought it wasn't affecting the Endler's livebearers that are invariably mixed in with the guppies, but today I found an affected Endler's. I suspect all of these shops use the same distributor, but I didn't ask any of them yet. Last week the one store I visited did *not* have cysts on their fish, so it seems to be a problem specifically with this week's delivery.

Long story short (or not, I guess), it's some kind of encysted worm. I tried to pull off one of the growths from a fish I'd frozen, and it unraveled into a 4mm long yellowish worm with kind of a small clear sac at one end. They seem to be fully embedded in the skin, not stuck to the outside like an anchor worm. Freezing killed it so I couldn't see how it moved.

So I wanted to caution anyone who buys feeder guppies, especially in CA I guess, to be on the lookout. It's really hard to miss, especially if you're looking at the whole tank of fish. They may be safe to feed after freezing (freezing killed the worms, but I don't know about any other life stages that would be in there), but that obviously defeats the purpose of buying live prey.

Also, I was hoping to take advantage of our wide geographic distribution. Any of you who buy feeder guppies, have you noticed this problem at your local store? If you're comfortable asking, I'd love to know your store's distributor (whether your guppies have the cysts or not) to see how pervasive this problem is - I think I read elsewhere that most of the feeder guppies sold in the US are from one large farm, but I've got no idea if that's true.

[prattypus]

Yikes- Thanks for the heads up. It's been so long since I've bought feeders though. Maybe I'll look in the tank tomorrow when I am getting dog treats.

[justme]

Hi. I'm new on here (live in the South Bay area of California). Several days ago while I was feeding my new Puget Sound babies I noticed a feeder guppy with numerous, scary looking growths all over its body (similar to what Dr.Kate had described). I immediately pulled the infected guppy out of the feeder batch and truly hope my garters will not get sick as they did chow down on the remaining fish that did not show any visible signs of growths, etc... I am planning on finding other food for my tiny pugets even if this means pulling guppies from my own personal tank.
Yes, this "feeder guppy worm epidemic" is most likely true! Everyone, please be careful.

[drache]

welcome to our forum, justme from the South Bay

I'm not currently feeding live fish, so I haven't noticed the guppies here in the east
thanks for the warning though

[guidofatherof5]

I've never noticed anything wrong with the guppies I buy. They have always appeared healthy. Not sure where our local pet shop gets its supply from. I'm in Iowa.
Thanks for the warning. I will pay extra attention to this issue.:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

those are those flatworm things!!!! I find them on the feeders at our store but only very rarely. We get them in every thursday and every once in a great while, a couple (like 10) of the fish in the batch will have these worms... I have seen these worms come out as long a half an inch! And they pulsate and boy are they gross!!! The question is, are they at their end stage-life cycle when encysted in the fish, or are they waiting for the fish to be eaten to parasitize whatever eats it? If they were at end stage then they would not affect the snakes, but if they are there soley for the purpose of using the fish as a carrier, then they are a seriousl problem!!!

[sschind]

This is precisely the reason I don't sell feeders in my store. I get some strange looks and a few people even get huffy an make comments like "what kind of fish store doesn't sell feeders" I explain to them that NOTHING I sell requires the use of live feeders as food and that as often as not live feeders are carriers of parasites and disease and I don't care to sell them parasites or disease.

Right now however I need to feed my baby Eastern Blacknecks and my stock of Endlers is getting pretty low so I might have to beg borrow or steal a bunch from a buddy of mine who also breeds them. Maybe he will trade for crickets.

Although I doubt the worms would cause problems in the fish I wouldn't want to take any chances. I'm glad I read this before I went out and bought a bunch of feeder guppies. I'd hate to have to medicate a tankful for a couple of weeks to be sure they were safe.

[mustang]

i havent noticed problems with mine and he eats guppies.... but i am looking for b1 capsuls which arent easy to find.

[k2l3d4]

DRKate.... I am up here in the bay area, CA and seem to find that in the fall/winter months is when Petco just about always has their feeders under quarentine.... they will not even sell them because they are coming in sick. Have not checked lately though and will definatly have to keep a close eye on them.

[TheArtist]

I think i found it :) I asked around my fish forums and I was directed to a website that listed this:


Symptoms

Cause

Treatment and Links
A). With a magnifying glass, you can see red dots on the fish, or you can see transparent disc shaped crustaceans Your fish are affected with fish lice Treat with De-Los.

B). Elongated oval objects measuring up to 10mm, stick up out of the skin This involves the egg pouches of copepods, e.g. Lernaea. The anterior portion of the parasite is burrowed deeper into the skin Treat with De-Los.

Kinda sounds like B. So I looked up Lernaea which is latin for anchor worms, and found this picture,

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fVFIhtcUiIw/SGuv4Jm3I5I/AAAAAAAAAoQ/2E-pV3M3CSI/s320/AncorWorm.jpg

Does that look like what you're seeing on your feeders?

[DrKate]

Does that look like what you're seeing on your feeders?
Unfortunately, no - at least not the original problem I described. Anchor worms attach to the surface of the fish and stick out into the water - they're not parasites of the fish so much as they just use the fish as a place to live, and filter-feed from the water. (They do cause damage to the fish's skin, though, especially in large numbers.)

(Warning! Gross comparison coming up!) Getting the worm out of the cysts I found was very much like popping a zit - the worm was most definitely all balled up under the skin, and only unraveled after I popped the cyst.

It sounds like justme is finding the same thing - not surprising given our proximity. Sounds like Shannon's seen the same thing too, though the tanks I saw this past week were much more heavily infested than in her past experience.

As for the danger to the snakes, Shannon is dead on there. It totally depends what life stage this is, and whether it (or any other life stage the fish may be carrying) can live in the GI tract of the snake - or even escape to encyst within the snake's body. :eek: I'm going to see if any of my parasitology or fish medicine acquaintances are willing to help ID these creepy crawlies, which might help determine if they pose any threat to the snakes.

Justme - I would definitely STOP feeding our local feeder guppies for now! A lot of the same stores that sell feeders will also sell frozen silversides (you'll need to cut them up for your babies). I also found that my Puget babies were VERY eager to take cut-up pinky mouse pieces, didn't need to scent them or anything, so you could try that too.

[TheArtist]

Wow you're comparison made my memory click! I remember we were having a problem like this on Ultimatebetta. One of our members was talking about how her fish appeared to have a 'zit' looking pump on it's chin. She took photos and noted that the next day it looked like a whitehead (eeew...) and then she saw the white thing come out, like a parasite. We found a solution but my mind draws a blank after that. Do you want me to dig the thread up and find out what she ended up doing to save the fish? The memory tells e that the worm was behaving in the way that you're describing, instead of feeding off the fish itself it seemed to just be using it as a host to live in...

[DrKate]

Do you want me to dig the thread up and find out what she ended up doing to save the fish?
Really I think the biggest concern (for me, anyway) is not whether you could cure the fish, because then you'd have to decide how long after treatment you'd need to keep the fish to make sure that their bodies have excreted all the medication and they are safe for the snake to eat. Plus, even if the big worm dies we wouldn't REALLY know if we'd killed all other life stages present, so there would always be some lurking risk there. Mostly I think we care about whether the worm poses any danger in terms of being passed on to the snakes when ingested. If not, then the parasite is just another food source for the snake. If so, then it's probably way easier and way safer to just feed something else. Of course finding that answer requires knowing what this parasite actually is.

So if you think the thread included an identification of the parasite, that would be really awesome. But if they just tried treating it as a generic worm infestation, then I don't think that would help me so much - but if somebody else feels really dependent on feeder guppies and would like to be able to treat this problem speak up!

[TheArtist]

Unfortunately, it was never identified... It started off as a white head looking pimple.. the worm would be seen every now and then hanging out of it. over time it turned into a 'hard' pointy thing that can only be compared to a fang. White like bone sticking out of the spot the worm and pimple had been. And a few days later it broke off and the fish was left a bit bloody and the tissue finally scared over.

I do not know if it ever re-occurred, or if that was the end of the worms lifecycle.. But I wonder if it didn't lay eggs or something within the fish...

I think, directing this towards feeding infected guppies to a snake.. I would act and assume that, even if the worm was harmless, the wound the worm would have made just to attach or get inside the fish would be just asking for the fish to contract a different type of infection. Even if it's not obvious, things like columinaris, which strain is always present within a tank, would take advantage of any opening within a fish... These side infections I would think, may harm the snake, or make the meal completely worthless.

I think the best plan of action would be to act as if the fish is no longer a suitable thing to feed the snake and should be avoided until the 'epidemic' within the feeder fish is no longer present...

But thats just me!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

all of this is why i feed f/t silversides as a staple and only use live feeders to start new babies and convince picky eaters!