Best way to sex baby Gartersnakes.

[Chad M. Lane]

My female Puget Sound Gartersnake had 12 babys.
They are all eating well, and look good.

Can you prob them just like other snake species this young? What's the best method of sexing them this young?




Thanks,
Chad

[mustang]

dunno i need to know too

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

They are far too tiny to probe, you would probably severely damage them. Baby garters are very, very easy to sex by popping. In fact, I am at the point now where even before I pop them, I can visually tell the males from the females by looking at the tails. The males have very prominent "parts" and they pop very readily and with little pressure. This is of course, assuming that you know how to pop them and you are able to do it safely!

[Chad M. Lane]

Yes I know how to pop (even though I'm not really good at it), even if you know how, and do it 'safely' you can still injure them. Esp in males, so I'd rather not pop them.

I've never bred anything this small before, and had to sex the baby's.

The 'for sure males' have much longer tails then the 'most likely female' guess That's how I'll have to go about it.

Cheers,
Chad

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Well, good luck! if you get good enough at it you can sex them pretty accurately just by looking and no popping. In fact I sexed my red striped babies first by looking and then afterwards popping to be sure and it turned out I was right just by visual sexing! But there's always that one "male" that's actually just a female with a thick tail... and vice versa! what I like about popping my babies is it requires very, very little pressure to do, and I absolutely hate not being sure about sexes!!! (perfectionist...) I own probes, but I would never probe a thamnophis... as adults there is simply no need to as they are easily sexied visually, and as babies they are just far too tiny and tender! :eek:

[ssssnakeluvr]

nearly all adults can be sexed visually....I get a questionable once ina while I need to probe. don't probe baby garters if you aren't experienced....VERY easy to damage baby garters because they are so small and fragile. popping is the best method

[mustang]

Thanks i hope i get it right(visually)

[DrKate]

What features let you visually identify the sex of a baby? What views would be most diagnostic in a photo? I ask because I had no idea that visually sexing juvenile garters was as reliable as folks here suggest. My babies were probed at a month old or so (by someone experienced at probing, with a very tiny probe) and both seemed to be males (there were females in the clutch so we did have a comparison). I've never popped any baby snake so I'm not going to try that. But if visual sexing is actually feasible, I'd certainly make a stab at taking some photos and submit them here for a second opinion...

[guidofatherof5]

What features let you visually identify the sex of a baby? What views would be most diagnostic in a photo? I ask because I had no idea that visually sexing juvenile garters was as reliable as folks here suggest. My babies were probed at a month old or so (by someone experienced at probing, with a very tiny probe) and both seemed to be males (there were females in the clutch so we did have a comparison). I've never popped any baby snake so I'm not going to try that. But if visual sexing is actually feasible, I'd certainly make a stab at taking some photos and submit them here for a second opinion...
Here's a link http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html Hope it helps.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Visual sexing only gets easy once you have seen enough garters. I have seen hundreds and hundreds between captivity and the wild, and I have sorted many a newborn litter, and it gets easier every time! After a while, it's just an automatic thing! At least, for me it is!

[DrKate]

OK, but what I meant was, what pictures should I take so that you experienced folk can give me a second opinion on the sex of my babies? It looks like a ventral view from the vent scale down is the critical one. Is a side view helpful too? I've noticed people talking about head morphology, but is that only for adults?

Mind you, I have no confidence that my boys (uh, "boys") will cooperate for the photo shoot, but I'll give it a try...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Head shape and size will really only help you for adults. Looking at the tail is easiest in person on newborns, because unless you photograph every angle of the tail, and VERY clearly at that, you might still get the wrong answer. I know that if I was looking at pictures of my neonates it would be a lot harder. In person you can examine them from all angles at once and you can often clearly see the presence/lack of hemipenes. If you did want to take photos, ideally you would have clear, crisp shots of the vent and tail from both the side and the bottom. That would be your best shot at getting an accurate sex!

[mustang]

hey ill get mine too...checker is a unisex name so i dont give a male snake a female name and vise versa

[drache]

I agree with Shannon
I still cannot reliably id gender in photos, but in person I generally can

[TheArtist]

I've been noticing that on males, the location around the vent continues at the same thickness as the rest of the body, later tapering off to the tail,
while females seem to taper noticeably around the vent.

Thats just what I've been noticing while reading through the sexing threads on here ^^;

[Philminator]

I am unable to send anyone private messages I was wondering if I could email someone that could help me sex some of my babies and my 2 adults. If so let me know please.

[Mike Spencer]

I can usually visualize mine too, but I've been popping them for years just to make sure. I've had people sell snakes for me and mess up the sexes so I make sure to get them all sexed correctly asap. I've popped hundreds of baby garters now and have never injured one. You just have to be tender. It takes barely any pressure at all.

[mustang]

is it safe to "pop" a garter thats a foot long tail and all? and after popping if male will the hemipenes (male parts i belive) go back in on their own? I havent done anything to checker (my snake) yet.

[Mike Spencer]

is it safe to "pop" a garter thats a foot long tail and all? and after popping if male will the hemipenes (male parts i belive) go back in on their own? I havent done anything to checker (my snake) yet.

Yes. I sometimes pop my babies within a week of them hatching. If you do try and have a hard time deciding sex still, don't force them. I've gotten to where I can pop then with barely any pressure at all, and I've never had hemipenes not be able to go back in on their own.

[mustang]

Yes. I sometimes pop my babies within a week of them hatching. If you do try and have a hard time deciding sex still, don't force them. I've gotten to where I can pop then with barely any pressure at all, and I've never had hemipenes not be able to go back in on their own. ok how hard do i push/rub

[charles parenteau]

I pop my babies snakes at 2 or 3 shed old they are big enough .I think this method is for advanced person,you can easily hurt the snake.At certain size I can sex them just by the look.

LAst week we sex 20 babies in less than 5 minutes.I have 10 thumbs so Im not very good with probe on small snake Im not use to probe.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Honestly, I don't think they make a probe small enough for baby garters anyway. It would have to be needle thin, which would be very sharp, and would surely injure the snake!!! I would never do it! Anyone who is considering popping, go to an expo and have people who know what they are doing teach you and show you how it's done, and don't dare try it until you are extremely confident about handling the snakes in this manner. Don't just try it on your own, it's not worth injuring a snake!

[Mike Spencer]

Honestly, I don't think they make a probe small enough for baby garters anyway. It would have to be needle thin, which would be very sharp, and would surely injure the snake!!! I would never do it! Anyone who is considering popping, go to an expo and have people who know what they are doing teach you and show you how it's done, and don't dare try it until you are extremely confident about handling the snakes in this manner. Don't just try it on your own, it's not worth injuring a snake!


I agree. I learned how to pop and probe from a seasoned breeder years ago. You can usually go to a herp store near you if there are no shows, and they'll either show you how to pop or probe, or they'll help you out and do it for you.

[mustang]

ok i tried...either hes a she or i didnt push hard enough