Tang's in trouble

[guidofatherof5]

I picked Tang up to check on him and found him doing some kind of full body twitches. Followed by rolls and twists. He seems alert and there still is a lot of tongue flicking. He's not interested in eating. He seems to be hyper sensitive to touch. I tryed a luke warm bath and that sent him twisting. His eye are bright and he seems aware of what's going on. The injury area isn't warm or hot to the touch and there's no discharge or swelling. He appears normal except for the twitching. I'm not sure what's going on. He seem more relaxed in his enclosure so that's where I'll observe him from. I have no idea what's happening. :confused:

[Millinex]

Besides a vet (which imo may stress him too much) it may be best to just sit back and see what happens, it sucks to have to do it but it is sometimes best.

[Quibble]

Oh no :( I dont know what to suggest. I hope he doesnt get worse! Keep an eye on him and let us know!

[mustang]

take his encloser with him to the vet thats what id do

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Ohhh, that's a real shame man... that does not sound good Steve. to me, it sounds like he is dying. Every snake I have ever had that happened to has died. I just put one of my rubrilineatus babies down this morning, she was doing that. Convulsing, twitching uncontrollably, rolling around. Hypersensitivity all the way. I have tried to save them before but I always woke up the next morning to a dead snake :(:(:(

Hoping for a miracle for you!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for your thoughts, Shannon.
I know what you mean but I see too many other signs that don't say death. I'm hoping and praying he'll make it through the night.

I just checked on Tang. He appeared to be resting without any twitching. As I lifted the screen off, the twitching started. I think as he tenses up he's in pain and relaxes only to react to me which causes this thing to start all over again. I put the lid back on and the twitching stopped. I think he's in pain everytime he moves. He's still alert and seems normal in every other way. I'll get a call to his Vet. tomorrow. I'll keep everyone posted.

[DrKate]

** Having read your last post, since it's really well correlated with stimulation, it does seem less likely to be systemic infection or the like. Hopefully your vet will be able to give him some sedatives or pain control that will help him through...

Oh no... I'm trying to think of something positive to say, or a positive spin, but... Your boy Tang had what looked like a localized issue, but these are signs of systemic disease. I can think of a handful of things that could cause twitching & convulsions - systemic infection, inflammation in the brain or spinal cord, kidney or liver failure (that one would be kinda weird). But the bottom line is that it's pretty much never a good thing. :(

Your vet would be able to give him a sedative which would provide temporary relief, and blood tests could help determine what's really going on. It might be treatable with strong antibiotics or anti-inflammatory drugs. Or... Well, it might not be. :(:(

I hope I'm wrong, and this is just some sort of seizure, and he'll snap out of it and be fine. If he's OK by tomorrow morning, then maybe you're in the clear. I do hope the little guy pulls through for you. That's *such* a great dorsal stripe...

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed for the wee man.

[mustang]

Vet asap!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

He made it throught the night. No change. No twitching until he moves. Once again I think this twitch is just him constricting his muscles to move, he feels pain immediately and relaxes. When I held him last he just repeated this multiple times. The twist were thrown in probably because of the severe pain and a attempt to get out of my hands.

11am Vet. appointment.

[drache]

best wishes for Tang

[guidofatherof5]

Just got back from the Vet's Office. On the way over Tang was in a death roll. He came out of it and by the time the Vet. saw him he only had small twitch. Dr. B. said there was probably some scarring taking place. He didn't think treating the pain chemically was the way to go. So, Tang is scheduled for a laser treatment on Tues. morning. Fingers crossed he'll get through this episode in his recovery. He's hanging in there.:)

[DrKate]

Wow! Great news. Hope he pulls through quickly!

[drache]

poor Tang
I hope it gets better soon

[mustang]

owww hope he getsssssssssssssssss beter -robert@checker

[Sha]

I've just found a wild garter snake outside doing just that. It doesn't look wounded, but it is seemingly convulging in pain, twisting in circles around itself, lifting up its head and plopping it to the ground.

So, I googled it, and here's the first (and only thing) that seems to match. I'm hoping there's something I can do help it. Any information would help, although it's sad to think that it's simply reaching the end of its life.

[guidofatherof5]

I just got home from the Vet's office. Tang got his first of 3 days in a row of treatments. They think the nerves are trying to reconnect and are firing randomly causing the twitches/contractions. I'm hoping this gives him some relief. They don't think putting him down should be an option at this point. I'm glad for that.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tang_laser.jpg

[drache]

sounds hopeful

[adamanteus]

I've just found a wild garter snake outside doing just that. It doesn't look wounded, but it is seemingly convulging in pain, twisting in circles around itself, lifting up its head and plopping it to the ground.

So, I googled it, and here's the first (and only thing) that seems to match. I'm hoping there's something I can do help it. Any information would help, although it's sad to think that it's simply reaching the end of its life.


Hi Erin, and welcome to the forum.:)
I hope your post doesn't get lost in the middle of this thread.... perhaps you could start a whole new thread? So people don't miss your post.
How's the snake you found doing?

[guidofatherof5]

I've just found a wild garter snake outside doing just that. It doesn't look wounded, but it is seemingly convulging in pain, twisting in circles around itself, lifting up its head and plopping it to the ground.

So, I googled it, and here's the first (and only thing) that seems to match. I'm hoping there's something I can do help it. Any information would help, although it's sad to think that it's simply reaching the end of its life.

Nice to have you with us, Erin.

Tang's current situation are related to his injury and recovery. My Vet. stated that his twitches and muscle contractions are generated at the injury site and not from the brain like some illnesses they can get. That is why he is alert and aware of what's going on. I wish you the best of luck with your snake and thank you for taking an interest in its life.

[DrKate]

I've just found a wild garter snake outside doing just that. It doesn't look wounded, but it is seemingly convulging in pain, twisting in circles around itself, lifting up its head and plopping it to the ground.
Have you gotten any closer look at it yet? Definitely no visible wounds? It is thrashing all the time, or only when you try to handle it?

If there's a herp vet in your area they could give a sedative for temporary relief and maybe figure out what's going on. But that's a lot to invest in a snake you don't know, that may be on its way out anyway. :( (That said, if they think it's really a dire case then at least they could quickly and humanely euthanize it.) A wildlife rescue/rehab center might also be able to help.

If you have someplace you could keep it (even a rubbermaid box with a secure lid) you could collect it up and keep it somewhere quiet and dim for a while, and see if it gets any better on its own. Left outside in that state it's probably an easy target for a hawk or other predator.

[Sha]

I'm afraid the poor thing passed on earlier today. I contacted a vet who wasn't a snake expert but tried helping me as best as he could, but it was too late, it seems. It may have been injured, but it was twitching all over, so I'm not sure. When I went to check on it later, it had found a nice crevice by my front door and rested...

[guidofatherof5]

Sha,

Sorry to hear about the snakes passing. Thank you for your concern for it and your efforts.

[jamromhem]

I am sorry to hear for your loss :( I hate hearing about the losses.

[mustang]

sorry sha...thanks for tryn robert@checker and guidofatherof5 ...was the injury site the place where ur vet stitched him earlier

[guidofatherof5]

sorry sha...thanks for tryn robert@checker and guidofatherof5 ...was the injury site the place where ur vet stitched him earlier

Yes.
I think the laceration was the least of the injuries. He took hard shot to the side and abdomen. I don't know how much longer he can stand these muscle spasms, considering the contortions his body goes through. I know I'm having a very difficult time with this injury and hopeful recovery.
The only bright spot is that he may have eaten a pinky tonight. I'm not sure as his buddy could have swiped it when I was in feeding some babies. I could kick myself for walking away. I would feel so much better if I knew he was eating.
He's hanging in there, so should I.

[guidofatherof5]

Tang had his last laser treatment, today. He is not doing any better.
Tonight I took him out and held him. It appears the spasms are the worst below the injury and then continue up the body until he is bent over backwards. That puts him in what I call a death roll as he tries to come out of this.
I've decided to immobilize a 2 inch area on either side of the injury. This way the spasm will push against the splint, keeping his body from bending over backward and hopefully making life a little easier on him. I want the splint to absorb the spasm rather than his body. I know that this will not stop the spasms but it will keep him from injuring himself any further by the terrible bends and contortions he goes through. I hope it also keeps his GI track and other organs in a more natural position.

This was a 3 person job. I'm glad I have a lot of kids. I first wrapped the area in gauze. Then I took a 4 inch piece of clear plastic tube and split it making it easier to get on and off. After applying the tube, I wrapped the area in hurt-free flexible wrap. This wrap is the kind that sticks to itself but not skin.
He's had this on for an hour and no contortions or death rolls. I hope I'm doing some good for this little guy.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bandage1.jpg


It looks pretty crude but it will serve its purpose until tomorrow when I can streamline the whole process. Making it easier for him to get around.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bandage.jpg

[DrKate]

I've decided to immobilize a 2 inch area on either side of the injury. This way the spasm will push against the splint, keeping his body from bending over backward and hopefully making life a little easier on him.
What a great idea... very resourceful! Glad to hear it's working - even being partially wrapped in foreign material, it *has* to be more comfortable for him than the full-body contortions.

[jamromhem]

very resourceful, while less than cosmetic I am sure you might be on to something should you be able to make the brace for functional.

[Zephyr]

Simply amazing. I hope he does well. Knowing you Steve, I'm sure he will. :)

[guidofatherof5]

very resourceful, while less than cosmetic I am sure you might be on to something should you be able to make the brace for functional.


This was just a quick fix. Design #2 will be more thought out. It will be lighter, and not involve so many layers. I've got the design in my head but it's time for some sleep. I will update tomorrow.

[guidofatherof5]

Took Tang in for a check-up this morning. Dr. B is impressed with how the wound has healed. Tang shed 2 days ago. That's 2 sheds in a 2 week period. My concerns are still with the spasms.
Tang decided he's had enough and made a bolt for the floor, moving much like an uninjured snake. Dr. B. said that his physical therapy should be moved outside. Tang is to be given as much time as possible outside to help the nerves that were cut relearn what they need to do. He feels the recovery is going great.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tang_healing.jpg

I still hope that he is going to make a good recovery since he is such a good looking young male. That orange dorsal is a knockout.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tang_face.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tang_stripe.jpg

[CelestiHel]

Awesome! I'm so glad he's doing better!

[Didymus20X6]

Glad to hear the little guy is doing okay. I also like the bright green color on his sides.

[guidofatherof5]

Tang went out for some physical therapy this morning. He likes the sun and heat. As long as he keeps moving he seems to be able to work through the spasms. If he's sitting still they seem to overpower him and he goes into those terrible looking rolls.

I think this outside time is very good for him. He's much more active and engaged outside. Less rolling. I like that and I bet he does too.

Sorry, gotta go take my radix for a walk.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/outside_tang.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/outside_tang1.jpg

[gregmonsta]

That dorsal stripe is fantastic :D onward the recovery!!!

[guidofatherof5]

That dorsal stripe is fantastic :D onward the recovery!!!

I know what you're saying, Greg.
This little guy and me are really getting close. He's getting a lot of rehab time but it's worth it. Orange stripe or not. He's a fighter and working hard also.

[guidofatherof5]

Tang just finished a 45 minute physical therapy session. I've learned not to put him in the grass, he immediately buries himself in the cool undergrowth and we get nothing done. I keep him in a open dirt or rocky area. This forces him to move and find cover.
After that it was off to the Hydrotherapy Tub:D(bird bath) Per the Vet's instructions I was to bend and stretch the injury area. He's very stiff in that location but seems to be handling the manipulations. The water started off cool but quickly got warm. I think he liked that warm water.
After this it was into the house for some well deserved rest. Tang layed on the livingroom floor for 30 minutes and not a single spasm. This is the longest I've ever seen him go without one.
For the first time I'm optimistic about his recovery. I do think there's a lot of work ahead for him but feel he is now making progress.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/hydrotherapy.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

*GREAT NEWS*

Tang has started eating again. He took 1 big nightcrawler. I will sleep better tonight. He probably will too.:D

[adamanteus]

Got to be impressed with the amount of work you're putting into this guy, Steve. Kudos.

[guidofatherof5]

This day just keeps getting better. Tang was out cruising!
Still has some spasms but not as many and not as bad.

[count dewclaw]

Woohoo! Glad to hear he seems to be on the mend.

[drache]

you're the guy I'd come to, if I was an injured radix - that's for sure
great job, Steve

[mustang]

happy for you and i thank you

[guidofatherof5]

I started a new phase of Tang's rehab. I call it real-world rehab. I spent an hour out with him as he cruised around the foundation ot the house. He spent sometime over at one of the shelter areas I built. I kept him moving and he did great. I only had to help him a few time as the bend in him couldn't get through a tight spot. I could see he was actively looking for food so I threw a couple of worms in front of him. He eat both of them without hesitation. I will continue this regiment and see how he's doing. I still put his split on him at night to keep him stabilized and his spine in a more natural position. His enclosure time seems to be difficult at times. I wish I had more time to spend with him outside but duty(being Dad) calls.

[charles parenteau]

Steve you are a hero,You definitely deserve an haward for what you doing,In amaze how he 's going.ON the top picture the vertebral strippe is
awesome.HOpe you can reproduce him someday ,look in good shape.
---------------------------------

Tang went out for some physical therapy this morning. He likes the sun and heat. As long as he keeps moving he seems to be able to work through the spasms. If he's sitting still they seem to overpower him and he goes into those terrible looking rolls.

I think this outside time is very good for him. He's much more active and engaged outside. Less rolling. I like that and I bet he does too.

Sorry, gotta go take my radix for a walk.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/outside_tang.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/outside_tang1.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Tang is getting so used to his therapy. No musking or biting. When he's in the warm water I think he falls asleep while I do all the work. I'm beginning to understand this isn't going to be a short road to recovery. Tang seem up for it and I'm not going anywhere. It will be nice when I can get him out for the fun of it.
He's a great radix with a never give up attitude. He's worth all the time, money and effort.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/therapy.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/therapy1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/therapy3.jpg

[Didymus20X6]

He basically had a huge chunk of flesh ripped from his side. I didn't expect he'd be doing marathons anytime soon. But it is good he's doing better now.

[guidofatherof5]

Not a lot to report. Tang is still on a daily schedule of therapy. Today I added something special for him since it was a rainy, cool day here. He got to nap on the livingroom floor on a heating pad. Lucky little radix.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/heat.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/heat1.jpg

[Didymus20X6]

I think he's got the best care money can buy!

I notice he seems to have that bend right above his wound that seems to be there in every pic. Is that from him having trouble moving that area?

[Mommy2many]

Steve,

If Tang were to ever have any offspring, I would sure love to be Mom to one! He is one beautiful snake! Good luck with his rehabilitation. Maybe you could advertise as a "Snaky Massage Therapist":)

[guidofatherof5]

Steve,

If Tang were to ever have any offspring, I would sure love to be Mom to one! He is one beautiful snake! Good luck with his rehabilitation. Maybe you could advertise as a "Snaky Massage Therapist":)

Once again, a skill that won't make me any money.:D How am I ever going to retire.

[Mommy2many]

You will retire very rich. Just not in the financial sort of way. (at least not thru this means:))

[Didymus20X6]

Unfortunately, Wall Street doesn't accept Radixes as legal tender.

Wait, I do have an idea: advertise in the newspapper that you're a "professional snake catcher", and that you will "safely and swiftly remove any snake from anyplace and relocate in a humane fashion." Then charge a small fee for it.

And after you catch a few garters, you can then buy one of those metal snake-catchy thingies like they use on TV, just in case you find a Copperhead or Moccasin.

[Mommy2many]

We are all rich on many different levels. Wall Street, only one and not so much.

[Didymus20X6]

You got that right, Mommy.

[Sssssnakey]

Steve, you're wonderful! I just read all this and it's amazing what you've done for Tang!

[mustang]

Unfortunately, Wall Street doesn't accept Radixes as legal tender.

Wait, I do have an idea: advertise in the newspapper that you're a "professional snake catcher", and that you will "safely and swiftly remove any snake from anyplace and relocate in a humane fashion." Then charge a small fee for it.

And after you catch a few garters, you can then buy one of those metal snake-catchy thingies like they use on TV, just in case you find a Copperhead or Moccasin.
HEY im gonna be 16 in september and i was thinkn of doin that...ROBERTS PESKY SNAKE REMOVAL... snakes arent pesky unless ur normal....do i need permits to do it?...its either that or petco....ill m ake sure the reptiles get what they need!!!

[Didymus20X6]

I would say to check with your local wildlife authority first. Then your department of labor.

[CelestiHel]

Wait, I do have an idea: advertise in the newspapper that you're a "professional snake catcher", and that you will "safely and swiftly remove any snake from anyplace and relocate in a humane fashion." Then charge a small fee for it.

And after you catch a few garters, you can then buy one of those metal snake-catchy thingies like they use on TV, just in case you find a Copperhead or Moccasin.

Seriously, there's a market for this. Before I decided to let the den win, I was in the market for some help scooping snakes from my walls in a humane fashion. And lo, there was no one. I looked everywhere. So now I'm toying with doing it myself...not on my house because I rent, but for others.

[guidofatherof5]

Therapy has been going the same. Not much change. It's been a see-saw battle. Good for a couple of days then the spasms return and we are back to rolling. Its been 4 days since he ate. I have him sitting on the livingroom floor most of the day. He moved over along one of the baby enclosures. I tossed a nightcrawler over to him and he downed it. Then he downed another. I keep hoping the spasms will just stop and he'll be back more to normal. I realistically understand his injury will take more time as the nerves and muscles reconnect and the healing process continues. If I can keep him eating and drinking I feel he still has a chance.

[Didymus20X6]

At least he's got a shot at recovery. On his own, he'd probably have a very hard time making it.

[mikm]

Hey again Steve ... Nerve regeneration will take a LONG time so I expect the day to day observations will become maddening for you ! ... and you are correct in that his body would not be able to sustain the spasms unchecked for very long. His brain would become overwhelmed from the explosive impulses ... akin to a lightening storm in his head, which in turn wears out his body as his brain becomes 'fried' figuratively speaking. You are doing a FANTASTIC job ! Should I ever fall ill or sustain a life threatening injury I could only hope to be in your backyard when it happened : )

best,
marian

[guidofatherof5]

With the amount of radixes I'm caring for, not to mention my injured ones. I think I'm going to install one of those pull-a-tab number machine. Then I can have one of those "now serving #" displays outside the back door. That way I can keep some order. I shouldn't complain even if I don't do that. I've hired some of my wise old girls as security. Nothing gets by them and they work for pinkies. The head of Ranch security is Scar. Now, he gets to see what it like working on the other side.
Scar's working for free. I think he's hoping I'll put him back in the Spring breeding program:eek:
Little does he know, I never took him out.

[k2l3d4]

With the amount of radixes I'm caring for, not to mention my injured ones. I think I'm going to install one of those pull-a-tab number machine. Then I can have one of those "now serving #" displays outside the back door. That way I can keep some order. I shouldn't complain even if I don't do that. I've hired some of my wise old girls as security. Nothing gets by them and they work for pinkies. The head of Ranch security is Scar. Now, he gets to see what it like working on the other side.
Scar's working for free. I think he's hoping I'll put him back in the Spring breeding program:eek:
Little does he know, I never took him out.

Scar is going to love you once he realizes that:p.

[guidofatherof5]

Scar is going to love you once he realizes that:p.

He is one special man. I'm going to get some current photos of him and post them tomorrow.:)

[k2l3d4]

Can't wait to see them!

[guidofatherof5]

He ain't pretty but he's my boy. Photos later.

[mustang]

With the amount of radixes I'm caring for, not to mention my injured ones. I think I'm going to install one of those pull-a-tab number machine. Then I can have one of those "now serving #" displays outside the back door. That way I can keep some order. I shouldn't complain even if I don't do that. I've hired some of my wise old girls as security. Nothing gets by them and they work for pinkies. The head of Ranch security is Scar. Now, he gets to see what it like working on the other side.
Scar's working for free. I think he's hoping I'll put him back in the Spring breeding program:eek:
Little does he know, I never took him out.
scar is gonna mate like theres no tomarro:cool:

[guidofatherof5]

*UPDATE*
I would say things have leveled out for Tang. He has a lot less spasms but the ones he has are severe. He's drinking with help(taking him to the water dish). He's eating about every 5th day. I'm going to keep working with him in the hope that some normality can return to his life. He's a tough little guy.

[gregmonsta]

Good news :) glad he's doing well.

[mustang]

put the splint back on!!

[guidofatherof5]

put the splint back on!!


Why? Give me your thoughts, please.:)

[guidofatherof5]

Tang lost his fight this morning. The injury was just too much. I will miss this little guy. I hoped and prayed he would make a recovery. It wasn't ment to be. He did give it his best. Good try my little friend, I will miss my time with you.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear that, Steve.

[count dewclaw]

So sorry, Steve. You went the extra mile (or two) to try to help Tang recover. Sorry it had to end this way.

[gregmonsta]

Sorry to hear that mate. He couldn't have wished for a better keeper.

[Mommy2many]

My condolences Steve, to you and your family. It really appeared that Tang was giving his all with the treatments.

[Didymus20X6]

Sorry to hear that. But at least he spent the last days of his life under some of the best care available.

[Sssssnakey]

Oh Steve, I'm so sorry to hear that! With all you did for him I thought he'd pull through. You'll be blessed for your efforts.

[mustang]

O COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dangit :( !!!!u tried so hard tang deserved to live...u have the sympothy of checker & me

[Quibble]

Im sorry to hear this Steve, the time you gave Tang was well spent. I'm sure Tang is watching over the Radix Ranch from above, be sure to thank him when something fortunate happens. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Im sorry to hear this Steve, the time you gave Tang was well spent. I'm sure Tang is watching over the Radix Ranch from above, be sure to thank him when something fortunate happens. ;)

Thanks for those words and thank you to everyone.
Tang is gone but not forgotten around here. I finally took the container he was in out of the livingroom today. Tangs out in the backyard keeping an eye on things for me. Directing all those awesome radixes my way.:D I feel kind of lost not having my Spot and Tang. It's been a tough couple of weeks here.
The new babies and all the others still need top care and that keeps my mind off the losses.

[charles parenteau]

Steve Im very sorry for your lost.ITs sad unable to reproduce this snake with a striking strippe...Needless to say that is not your fault you did every thing possible.

[drache]

Steve - I'm so sorry Tang didn't pull through

[JLeezy06]

Just read through the entire thread. The most motivating story of heard of in quite a while. Im so sorry it had to end like this. You did everything you could, that was one lucky snake. :)