Hello Everyone!

[PitGirl89]

Hey!
My name is Renay, I'm 20 years old and have just bought my first home with my boyfriend. We live in a small town where I work at my mothers store (a temporary fix, I have a degree in accounting), and my boyfriend works as a mechanic. We share our home with 2 dogs, Dolly a rescued American Pit Bull Terrier mix and Maggie a miniature poodle x maltese. 3 cats Cuda, Duster and Polara (yes we like cars... Yes we like Mopar lol!), 1 bearded dragon Turbo, 3 rats Elsie and Peeka are two rescued gray hooded sisters, and Lily is a hairless rat. I also have hermit crabs, finches, and fish. Its a lot of work taking care of my zoo, but I do it with pride, my animals are my life and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I don't currently have any Garter snakes, but I would absolutely love to get one. Most important though, is doing my research first, which is why I've decided to join this forum! The reason why I would like to have a Garter snake is because I could never bare to feed a snake any rodents, dead or alive. I understand that snakes have to eat, but I'd rather not be the one doing the feeding. Feeding fish and insects seems easier. We have Garter snakes in the wild here, as I'm sure most people do, but I never knew they were kept as pets. Once I've begun researching them and have come to the conclusion of whether or not I would be a good home for a Garter, I'll be looking for reputable breeders. In the meantime, its research, research, research!

I look forward to meeting everyone here and having the oppurtunity to discuss these amazing creatures!

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard, Renay. :)

You have probably already checked out our care sheet:
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet

You mentioned insects. Well, they're not a part of garter's diets, so the most important thing for you is to find some safe species of fish.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Welcome!

First off garters do not eat insects. And, I would strongly reconsider your opposition to rodents. They are a very sustaining food item and feeding just straight fish could give you a LOT of problems down the road, if you are not super careful about which species you use because of thiaminase, the cleanliness of your source because of parasites, and the fact that you will need a LOT of fish to sustain your garter, as opposed to rotating fish and rodents. You are especially going to have trouble finding a safe source if you plan on feeding live fish. I try to get my garters off live fish as fast as humanly possible. Feeding just fish, he will need to eat just about every day, a small meal. You can buy rodents frozen, already dead, whom have been put to sleep with CO2. All you have to do is thaw and feed. Trust me, it's NOT that bad!!! And it's better for the health of your snake! If you want to get a snake, it's bet to put his health and happiness before your own personal wants. If feeding a dead pinky to your snake would be a problem, or in fact if actually being involved in feeding the snake anything is going to skeeve you out, maybe, a snake is not the right choice for you. If you can't feed a mouse to a snake, what's the difference between that and feeding it a fish? It's still killing a living creature, whether it's warm blooded or cold blooded, should not make a difference. Hope this helps!

[PitGirl89]

When I said insects I meant the earthworms (which I know aren't insects, but I'm not entirely sure what they are lol). Rodents are always an *option* but they're not an option that I feel too sure about, however the frozen alternative does seem somewhat more humane and easier to deal with. My only issue with the frozen mice would be where to acquire them. I'm not sure whether or not my local pet store carries frozen rodents.

I do keep a bearded dragon, and I know that he will not eat anything that doesn't move. I'm assuming some snakes are similar?

Fish are easier because I have absolutely no connection with them, I've kept mice and rats for as long as I can remember, so it in essence would be like feeding a cat to a dog for me, but like I mentioned the frozen option is slowly appealing to me.

I did get to read the care sheet, and what an excellent source for information! Now I know that goldfish, frogs and tadpoles are out of the question. I do have a few questions though, regarding the fish. Which species are okay to feed? I would ideally like to get a tank that is spacious enough to be able to have a small water feature where the snake could fish for his own fish, even if I do decide to feed pinkies, it would be a nice treat and change of pace. I did notice to, that frozen fish are an option and a safer one at that due to parasites.

So, in all, I definately have a lot to learn, but I feel as if I've made leaps and bounds in the right direction just by finding this forum, there is so much great information here!

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Renay :)

[Stefan-A]

When I said insects I meant the earthworms (which I know aren't insects, but I'm not entirely sure what they are lol).
Oligochaetes. ;)

[Millinex]

Hi pitgirl, most of us buy frozen rodents in bulk online, this allows us to order enough food for several garters for several months and be able to have food always on hand, never having to worry about running to the store to get any. I pay 40 cents per pinkie from rodentpro and spend 60-70$ a time, however if I bought all my frozen mice from petco I'd be spending 2$ for each pinkie, so it works out in the end.

I know about the attachment to the rats/mice and whatnot, it is best to just put it in the back of your mind and know it is the circle of life, puts me at east knowing its natural, and it is what is healthy and good for my snake. I'm actually getting into breeding my own mice now, which will be an adventure..

[ssssnakeluvr]

salmon and trout are good fish to use....buy filets at the store, cut into small servings and freeze separately....then thaw what you need for a feeding. nearly all garters will take fish like this. oh, and welcome to the forum!! :D

[drache]

welcome to the forum, Renay
your little zoo sounds a lot like ours, except we have more reptiles
we also have a couple of rats, and I must tell you that I have no problem separating those in my mind from the ones the come frozen on a little styrofoam tray, just like chicken thighs and beef chuck from the supermarket
unless you're a total vegetarian you really shouldn't have a problem with that
I figure those rodents probably have a more species appropriate life and diet, and maybe an easier death, than the average heifer from the feed lot - possibly better than farm raised fish as well
and all of my garters have switched to dead food, most of them without much fuss
hope you find a nice one for yourself

[gregmonsta]

:D greetings ... lots of great advice already ... a varied diet is best ;)

[PitGirl89]

Okay, so pinkies are the way to go, easy enough, sort of lol. If I'm not mistaken I only have to feed one per week? We'll see how it pans out, I was looking for a snake that didn't eat rodents which sparked my interest in Garters, but, I'm sure once the first one is gone it just becomes routine. If they're not alive, and if I don't have to see them alive, I shouldn't have a problem with it. :)

[jitami]

Welcome :) There are people who don't include rodents at all, but it's trickier to get all of their nutritional requirements met.

Check this post for a complete 'non-rodent' recipe: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/3208-trout-mixture.html#post97262

That said, I find that in time most people get used to the idea of feeding frozen/thawed mice. Good luck in your research!

[count dewclaw]

Welcome, welcome! :D

Glad to hear you are doing your research first. Sounds like you are on the right track. I can't really add anything more to the advice you have already been given. If (when) you do get a garter, you will for sure enjoy having it, they are so much fun to watch.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. Sounds like the forum is giving some very good advice. I would only add that if you buy frozen fish, make sure it is not a "Product of China" I don't think the standards over there are as good as they should be. The salmon I buy from Sam's Club is a "Product of Chile" and has worked great. I had a terrible experience with some fish from China and lost a snake.:mad:
I'm really glad you joined and I'm impressed you're gathering knowledge before you get a Garter.:)

[Millinex]

Okay, so pinkies are the way to go, easy enough, sort of lol. If I'm not mistaken I only have to feed one per week? We'll see how it pans out, I was looking for a snake that didn't eat rodents which sparked my interest in Garters, but, I'm sure once the first one is gone it just becomes routine. If they're not alive, and if I don't have to see them alive, I shouldn't have a problem with it. :)

One pinkie a week is ok for smaller snakes, however my large 34 inch female downed 5 fuzzies and a pinkie yesterday and will want about that in another 5-7 days. In general the larger snakes I've kept have taken down between 10-12 pinkies a week, I am however a heavier feeder for my snakes.

As your snake gets big, like mine, it may become more economical to take her off pinkies and onto other types of mice, if you keep a male you could probably get away with a few pinkies a week through his life.

[Snake lover 3-25]

welcome to the forum!

[drache]

my grown females eat rat pups

[adamanteus]

Hi Renay, and welcome to the forum.:)

[Snaky]

Welcome to the forum and enjoy it here :)

[PitGirl89]

Thanks for all of the warm welcomes!!!
Jitami I really appreciate the link to the non rodent diet, I'll be checking that out as soon as I'm done with this message. I'm learning a lot in just the few days I've been researching. This is quickly becomming an obsession. I have located a breeder, and have been designing a decent habitat, I have an old 50 gallon aquarium which I could section off while the snake is small, and once it reaches adulthood should make a comfy planted habitat. We'll see though, because I still have a lot of research and planning to do. Time will tell :)

[drache]

sounds like you're coming along quite rapidly
just curious - who's the breeder?

[PitGirl89]

Actually, it was someone who worked at a local pet store who knew of someone that bred Garters and was supposed to get me more information, but the more I think about it... The more I'm skeptical, the snake would be shipped to the store where I would then pick it up, I'd rather see where the animal comes from or atleast be in direct contact with the breeder.