Force Feeding

[drache]

Discussion thread for Force Feeding (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Force Feeding). If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button

[adamanteus]

Good topic. I have mixed views on the subject. Should force-feeding be a standard tool in every snake keepers arsenal of techniques? Perhaps not. Okay, it has it's place, but surely only as an absolute last resort.

My feeling is that if an animal is refusing food we should be looking at the reasons why, rather than just ramming pinkies down it's throat. It is every animals' instinct to eat and to survive, presuming you have an otherwise healthy animal refusal of food is indicitive of underlying problems. 99% of the time this will be faults in the husbandry techniques we are inflicting on our animals. I'm sure healthy animals don't refuse food in the wild.

Evey aspect of your snakes' behaviour gives you signals as to how well or how badly you are catering to its' needs. If your snake is refusing food for longer periods than you would consider "normal" (presuming the snake is healthy and free of parasites), you should be checking temperatures, photo-period, humidity, provision of hides, spacial requirements, types of food being offered etc.

Certain species are notoriously "difficult feeders", but in my experience the problem is always incorrect husbandry. I have kept European Adders (Vipera berus) in the past, and they steadfastly refused all food items offered until I gave them an enclosure with a floor space of 6' X 6' furnished with live, growing grasses and copious bracken. I rarely saw them again but they immediately started to accept live Common Lizards (Lacerta vivipara) and then soon progressed to taking dead mice. Once they had settled to this diet I tried to move them back into more conventional vivaria, they stopped feeding straight away. An extreme example, I know, but I think it illustrates my point.

There is also the problem of stress. The act of force-feeding is obviously extremely stressful for the snake. They don't know you're trying to help! I've heard of snakes dying in their keepers' hands during force-feeding.

So, to sum it up....If the snake is healthy but not feeding, we're doing something wrong. (Obviously, I'm not including times when a snake is preparing to slough, or in breeding condition). So we should be looking to improve our husbandry, rather than forcing. My thoughts on that!

[Gyre]

I've rehabilitated a lot of birds, (not even close to a snake, =P ) and I tend to have to force feed the first day. This generally increases strength, energy and appitite. By the time most small birds come in, they're on the edge of starvation.. being birds and all.

Would force feeding a snake be a safe option if it was obviously malnourished and sluggish?

[drache]

the thought of having to force-feed scares the wits out of me
so far I've never had to do it
just the anxiety I go through when I switch my garters to pinkies is quite enough for me
I guess I'm curious to hear from people who have done it
what led to it
what the outcome was
and what it felt like

[Cazador]

I think James is right on target with his reservations, but there are times when it can be a very useful and necessary technique... particularily for babies that have gone a week without having their first meal. It can also be useful if a newly acquired snake hasn't eaten for a few weeks after being shipped. Another situation might include when a snake is taking medication on a fixed schedule, but it refuses to take its medicine concealed within food.

If a snake's enclosure isn't clean, isn't the right size or temperature, and doesn't provide a sense of security, if the snake isn't otherwise healthy, force-feeding won't do a thing to solve the problem. I think the precautions mentioned above are so important that I'd like to start the force feeding article by copying them into it, if there are no objections.

[adamanteus]

there are times when it can be a very useful and necessary technique...

I absolutely agree, Rick. There are times when nothing else will work. My intention was not to say "never force-feed", merely to suggest caution and not to view forcing as standard practice. In fact, in experienced hands, force-feeding can be a speedy and relatively stress free event. As long as it is used as a last resort, it certainly has it's place.

[adamanteus]

Just thought I'd dig this old thread up again in order to ask a related question.....
Anybody here ever used a "pinky-pump"?

[CrazyHedgehog]

A what????:confused:

[Snaky]

You can do pinkies in it, put the pump through the mouth and squeeze the pinkie through the pump in the snake (of course pinkies should not be alive...:) ) :
http://www.reptilesupply.com/images/prestige_pp.jpg

I have it at home, but think it's not really suited for newborns. It's a bit to big in my opinion. As I've not had any problems with adult snake's before, I can't say if it's handy or not.

[CrazyHedgehog]

eeeeeeewwwww :eek:

squished pinkies....

[CrazyHedgehog]

eeeeeeewwwww :eek:
we need a vomiting smily....

[mikm]

I have done it, but not a big fan. Not sure if I would again. It was more comfortable with Corns for obvious size reasons. Only did one young E.BlackNeck two times afterwhich I came to the conclusion that it was just too much. After a month of not feeding he just began feeding on his own. I gave that one away as part of a group purchase as a 'problem feeder'. Late last year I inquired about them & all are still doing great.

my .2 ...
marian

[drache]

do the pinkies get squished in that thing?

[KITKAT]

pinkie mush.:eek:

The tip you are forcing the pinkie through is MUCH smaller than the pinkie.

[adamanteus]

Yes, there is a stainless steel plate inside, pierced with holes. The pinks are forced through these holes and so become a mess of masserated mouse. I have used these pumps in the past, but personally don't think they're very good.

[drache]

I guess my vet doesn't use one
he used a large regular syringe with a small rubber tube instead of the needle - and he used dogfood
seemed a lot less gory than that description of the pinkie pump process

[adamanteus]

I don't know if I like the idea of using processed meat as a snake food, but I guess in an emergency something is better than nothing.

One reason I don't like the pinky pump is that when you press the plunger there is initial resistance and then a sudden "shot" of food, which I find difficult to control and which must be a shock for the recipient! Also it is an awkward and messy process, far simpler, in my view, to use whole pinkies or pinky parts of appropriate size.

[drache]

that's what I though the pump did - just stuff the whole pinkie down the snake's gullet

[Thamnophis]

We have to forcefeed a lot of captive bred Candoia carinata paulsoni.
Most of the newborns do not eat the first year or so. Doesn´t matter what you try.
We start with mousetail-parts. Than whole mousetails, tham mouselegs or so. And later with pinkies.

Sometimes it is neccesary to forcefeed. Forcefeeding is normally meant to give them a quickstart or to save a life. After one or two forcefeedings the snake must start eating himself.
But we also have to accept that some snakes just do not want to eat.

[sschind]

I am reading Marlin Perkins' autobiography and he states that at the St. Louis zoo (I think thats where it was) they had a 19 or 20 foot python (species escapes me at the moment but I think it was an African rock) that they force fed for 20 some years. It never took a meal on it's own. A slightly larger snake of the same species that they kept in the same enclosure ate regualrly and with a passion. They even had a picture. A dozen men sitting on a stretched out snake while two guys used a giant pinkie pump to stuff chicken down its throat.

If I remember I'll grab the book from home and get the details.

[drache]

now why does that bring the term bulimia to my mind?
I think having stuffed something down one's throat seems about as pleasant as upchucking it
something about the chicken . . .

[sschind]

I reread the chapter and it was a 19 foot reticulated python. They forced fed it for 20 years and it was a mixture of ground rabbit and horsemeat (although I'm sure a chicken or two proabaly made it into the mix as well) about 13 pounds at a feeding. he didn't say how often the fed it. They had crowds of up to 3000 people watching the feedings at times. After one such feeding Marlin recalled a conversation between zoo patrons looking at the snake in its enclosure "Man, thats one big snake right there" the first one said. "that's not a real snake" the second one said "I just saw them blowing it up a little while ago"

[CrazyHedgehog]

he he he now that did make me laugh!:D

[garterman07]

i personally feel if the snake is not eating food then the owner should look into as why and only use force feeding to prolong your research time.

[adamanteus]

I think, if you read back through this thread, you will find that is the general consensus of us all.

[nicolelove]

i have a question about this i just got a baby garter snake a week ago and since i got him he hasn't eaten at all! i bought 160 worth of things for him everything he would need (hiding places, water bowl, sticks, vitamins, heat lamp, etc) and i bout worms and crickets to feed him since he is so small. i live him in his feeding box (a small plastic container with a heating pad) and leave them in there and he wont eat them still. i cut the worms up small enough for him to eat but he just dosent show interest. im getting scared its been 8 days now and he seems fine basks all the time drinks his water but just wont eat!! i dont want him to die so is anyone aware of this and can help me out and tell me wht im doing or not doing right??? ill be buying pinkie parts very soon! i hear there better for them.

[kibakiba]

He does not need to be force fed. Leave him alone for a week and let him get used to you. They can last a long time without food and he's a baby. Babies often will not eat until 2-3 weeks after they are born and if you stress them out enough they wont eat for longer. Ditch the crickets, garter snakes never, ever eat crickets.

[mb90078]

Agreed, lose the crickets, and give fish a try, but most importantly, be patient.

[ConcinusMan]

In case you were thinking about force feeding, forget it. Your little northwestern wouldn't be able to handle that. He's way too small. The trauma and possible injury in such an effort would be more harmful than not eating. Personally, I feel that by the time a situation warrants force-feeding, it's time to think about euthanasia. I don't do force feeding except under certain rare circumstances.

There's still time nicole, try to be patient. your little one looks OK, body-mass wise. He's not too starved just yet. Snakes can go a long time without food.