Newbies need help with new snake who seems sick

[Shazam]

Hi all,

So my 8-year old daughter got our beloved Myrtle, a 14-inch garter snake, from her science teacher after a 2-month reptile course, where she lived with 2 other little snakes (are they teen snakes maybe?) Myrtle got very used to being handled by 8-year olds and when she got home to us she adjusted well. We have her in a 5-gallon tank with everything done right - temperature, little heating pad on the side, little rock to hide inside, big stick, etc. The first week she climbed the stick, swam around, was out all the time - in a word - happy. We fed her 5 little minnows, on her first day here and 5 minnows 4 days later. We took her out, all seemed fine.

BUT... she always acted very hungry after she ate, searching around almost frantically after the feeding was done. She seemed a little desperate for more. So we asked the pet store (bad idea!) if we could feed her more, and they said, yes, as long as it's the same day. So instead of giving her 5 fish on saturday, then 5 fish on Wednesday, just give her 10 fish on Saturday.

So we did that. We let Myrtle eat 10 minnows, and sure enough she gobbled them right up without stopping. On Saturday.

We went away on Saturday afternoon - Sunday evening. And suddenly, since we came back everything is different. There is poop all over the tank (we just cleaned it Saturday morning before the Big Feed.) On top of the rock, all over the place. And she has not left the rock. She is curled up back there and will not come out. I shine the mini flashlight to see if she's alive and it seems she's barely breathing. She came out once for water but then right back in and curled up in a little ball.

We have not handled her (not wanting to traumatize her further.)

So... did we overfeed her? If so, how long does digestion take? When will she be "better"? My daughter is beside herself, so so upset. Myrtle really seems as if she's dying.

Please tell us what we might have done and what we can do to help!

Thank you,

A mom and her kid and their new snake.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard. :)

While listening to pet stores can sometimes be risky, that does seem like fairly normal behavior to me after an exceptionally big meal. There are different opinions on the subject of large meals versus several small meals, but I haven't seen anything convincing arguments either way. Probably nothing to worry about. She should be getting back to her old self once the whole meal is digested and expelled, which could take almost a week, depending on how much she ate.

One thing that I would like to point out, is that minnows probably aren't a good fish to use long-term. Like goldfish, they contain an enzyme called thiaminase, which breaks down vitamin B1 (thiamine), which can lead to neurological problems. Commonly used safer alternatives are salmon and trout, with added calcium to compensate for the missing bones.

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
It could be that you over fed her and she's sick. The good news is that it doesn't sound like the typical problems caused by feeding them minnows. Minnows/goldfish for the most part are bad for Garter snakes if that is their only food source.. When you have time check out the forum homepage. Look in the care sheet link at the top left of the page. Find the article Thiamin, Thiaminase & goldfish.

I would agree with Stefan in the fact she probably needs some time to digest such a large meal. They will over eat if given the chance. I think it comes from not being able to eat like that in the wild.
A photo whoud be great so that we can identify what you have.
Once again welcome to you and your daughter.

[Snake lover 3-25]

welcome to the forum! it sounds like normal behavior, she should be ok, but i'd switch the diet as soon as possible.

[Shazam]

Thank you everyone. It's so nice to hear from folks with some experience here!

I think it would be easier to relax if she was getting a little more active every day. But she is just staying put. Seems less and less mobile every day.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks,

Suzanne

[Quibble]

Maybe she's hiding a lot because she's still getting used to the new surroundings, give her time she'll come out of her shell. Other than that, I agree with everything said above.

Good luck!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

It actually sounds like your snake is perfectly normal. The first week, when she was all over the tank, she was probably checking out her new surroundings, looking for a way out, and probably stressed from being moved. Now that she's settled in she's not so rambunctious. Some of the shyer ones tend to hide a lot. Hiding a lot is not a bad thing, especially if the snake is eating. It's their instinct to hide. They rest while digesting their food. They don't breath like mammals do, they take breaths much less often. Sometimes they breath faster - especially when excited, or angry/stressed, and when at rest they often will go 10 seconds without so much as one breath of air! If you want to see more of your snake, put a light on top of her tank during the day. Since you have such a small tank and are already providing heat, use a bulb that does not give off any heat (a fluorescent coil bulb). They really like light and become very active with it. She should come out and sit under the light for a while. The poop all over the tank is also normal. They digest fish at an incredibly fast rate. When they eat fish, boy do they POOP, several times a day at that. And stefan is right about the minnows, they are not good as a long term food source!:eek: It's good to see you are so concerned about your new snake, but don't worry, she sounds like the majority of my garters after they've just eaten a big meal. Hiding, pooping, and sitting still!

[jitami]

Welcome :) As I was reading I was thinking the same thing, "sounds normal." She'll hide more when she's getting ready to shed, too, which may or may not be the case right now.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Shazam :)

[Seere121]

Hello and welcome to the forum! I hope your garter gets better soon. Sounds like (s)he just ate too much. I would suggest getting Myrtle switched to pinkies, tilapia, trout or salmon as soon as possible because of the thiamine (vitamin b1) deficiency caused by minnows and goldfish. With garters its usually easy to do, just take the new food item and rub it all over the minnow or goldfish so it smells like it and offer it to the snake, after a few feedings, try it without "scenting" and they usually go right for the new food.

Good luck with your Garter!

[drache]

welcome to the forum Shazam

[Shazam]

Guess what! Myrtle shed her skin yesterday, and now she is back to her awesome rambunctious self. Lying on top of the rock, hanging around on the stick, cruising around her tank. All is well! And she gobbled up another 5 fishies this morning. We will try mice when she runs out of minnows this week. Thank you all! It was a nervous-making week over here!

[Stefan-A]

That's great news. :) Didn't occur to me that the snake might also be in shed. :D