Shunned at the Show [Archive] - Garter Snake Forum

guidofatherof5

04-19-2009, 04:26 PM

Made a short drive over to the Omaha Reptile Show. 6 months ago our girl Lucky had escaped and we were busy looking for her so we couldn't attend.
Before I went, I showered, put deodorant on and I brushed my teeth. My clothes were clean and presentable.
You're probably wondering why I would be tell you all this. Well, shortly after arriving at the show, I started a conversation with a few of the vendors. I was asking questions about their reptiles and eventually they asked me what kind of reptiles I keep. I was honest and proud to tell them I raise Thamnophis radix. A cold chill swept through the crowd. Those people that were within ear-shot, turned and gave me this look. I swear someone called for security and the crowd parted. There I was with my kids huddled around me. My youngest said "what's wrong daddy". I drew my off-duty weapons and we backed out of the place. We sprinted to our van, by this time the crowd had organized and rushed us. As I drove out off the parking lot they threw rocks at us and yelled obscenities.

Now, this story is slightly exaggerated but that's how I felt. The truth is the few vendors I did speak with changed their attitudes with me once I mentioned the word Garter snake. I felt like a second class citizen. By the way there were no vendors with any Thamnophis represented.
Looks like I'll have to keep my mouth shut when I go to these thing. I DON'T THINK SO!
I think I need to get my own table or two.

k2l3d4

04-19-2009, 04:36 PM

I completely support you on getting your own table for the shows... Show off the beauties that all scorn.. and maybe you will sway a few to join our ranks of "Garter lovers"

Stefan-A

04-19-2009, 04:37 PM

Yeah, that's pretty much how it's like over here.

Zephyr

04-19-2009, 04:49 PM

I know the feeling. :/
You say "garter" and they look at you like you're insane or something.
We'll show'em.
**EDIT- PLUS, the fact that everyone around you is saying "garden" or "gardener" snakes. Ughhhh.

aSnakeLovinBabe

04-19-2009, 06:23 PM

You know, SOME of the vendors at hamburg are like that, but I've got to say, that after speaking with many of them each show, many of the dedicated hobbyists (and not the wholesalers) actually are very interested in what i have to say regarding garters. Wholesalers often instantly assume they know more than I do about garter snakes and try to play really dumb things off on me, like... you can't find these ANYWHERE... or... oh that scale rot is just from brumating he's fine!!! :mad: A few actually do respect garter snakes, and one in particular is doing all he can to acquire more of them. This show I actually am thinking about taking my camera with a card full of photos of my garters to show people what garters are really all about. I know enough of the vendors there well enough that they will take me seriously. Every time I make posts on other forums, I get messages and comments from people about how my photography and love for garter snakes has literally made them have a whole new respect for them. The favorite to newcomers is by far, the blue pugets, as well as the oregon red-spots. I like posting a huge post with photos of my entire collection, so that people can see all at once, just how spectacular they really are. And it is generally well recieved! The only reason we often get rejected, is because people are simply not exposed to what thamnophis love is really all about!

Quibble

04-19-2009, 07:28 PM

i agree 100%

maybe someday in my far away future, i can set up a booth in a show... -dreams on- ;)

ssssnakeluvr

04-19-2009, 08:26 PM

prattypus

04-19-2009, 08:49 PM

gregmonsta

04-20-2009, 03:14 AM

It really seems to depend what shops I go into ... I remember a local reptile shop that was bursting with garters about 15years ago ... now I can barely find any -

1) the local exotics shop just opened in town didn't even know that garters are live bearing and is totally clueless when I rattle through the subspecies in my conversation. (Saying that the owner was also bamboozled as to what colour an everglades ratsnake was). They are interested in babies but want them at wholesale rates. I'll keep at them. I think when they see the first few babies they'll change their minds! I refuse to even entertain the thought of letting any of my litters go at WC prices!!

2) Another exotics shop 25mins away recently bought in WC ribbons (~I got Panama from here) ... advertised as sauritus (even after I corrected him) ... advertised as including insects in their diet (even after I corrected him) ... and as far as I know I'm the only one that's bought one so far. He's not interested in CB because they're 'too small and nobody wants them' (although that didn't seem to apply to the hatchling hognoses he had in stock) - ie they don't make me enough money unless I buy WC at £5 each and sell them for £30.

3) Another shop further north advertises them but never has them in stock .... although they have sold CB checkereds in the past.

The good news -
Serpentus Exotics in Dunfermline is great - only buy CB (preferably Scottish), are very knowledgeable, owner used to keep garters, knows who Alan Francis is, have an excellent reputation and ... make a good cup of coffee .... I think I know where I'll be offering my snakies to!!!

I've faced garter snubbery on many a forum. When I ask on a thread for an expo if there'll be any garters there's never an answer ---- when I suggest garters to someone then someone else will pipe in with comments like 'they smell, get a corn' or ' get a royal'.

I spread the word as much as I can ... my friends are all amazed by how active and personable my garters are.

Thank Boots and all of us for giving us this refuge I say!!!

drache

04-20-2009, 05:38 AM

I get very vocal when I get those looks
it generally happens at this particular vendor's table; they have something like seven tables with just about every animal on the herp market, and they do often have garters; usually I'm standing right next to some giant with a huge boid wrapped around their arm when I'm asking where the garters are (right by the frogs); the boid speaks for itself and I speak for the garters - usually to the people checking out the frogs, but I try to talk loud enough, so that the boid guy who just gave me the look can hear me

ssssnakeluvr

04-20-2009, 08:29 PM

For me, it was the opposite- I got more colorful when I got to Utah (tattoos, that is.) 'member to let me know when you are ready to ship 'em out.
well....yes, as far as colorful people go, lots of them here, tons of tattoo shops here... got a few myself... :rolleyes:

still waiting on my first litter..........any day now

MasSalvaje

04-20-2009, 11:24 PM

I took my garters and showed them at the reptile expo here the last 2 years and got quite an interesting response. everyone was surprised to see that garters come in more colors than gray and green.....I just tell people things get more colorful when you leave Utah :eek: I should be having my own booth this year, depending on how many babies I have.

I am glad to hear you will have your own booth Don! I am looking forward to seeing what you produce this year.

My Expo experience was very similar to everyone elses. A couple of years ago I went to the Wasatch Reptile Expo hoping to find Garters. I had been reading all the books and was really looking forward to seeing some kinds I had been studying. I started to ask some of the tables about Garters and they just chuckled at me, until they realized I was serious then they just gave me a wierd look. I eventually made my way around to Don and finally felt at home. I had a good chat with him, he told me about some of the resources out there (like this site), and told me about some of the projects Scott had going on. I was not in the position then to buy one from him but it definately sparked something in me.

-Thomas

Snake lover 3-25

04-21-2009, 11:14 AM

guess i'm lucky here lol if you say you have a snake people think it's cool no matter what it is.....

drache

04-21-2009, 12:14 PM

hm, I just had this conversation with Sean, who's not that much into garters himself, but knows a few people who are, and his statement was: "There's just some people who are into them (shrug) - it's always been like that"
I don't think it's true though; I think it's changing
he thinks I just see them because I'm into them, but I've always been into them - it's what I looked for at the first expo I went to
two years ago even, one would be lucky to find garters at the expo at all; someone might have a couple or a batch of wc something or other and if my vet (the one who left for PA) was there before me, he could usually tell me where to look. now I regularly see cb marcis, and often other species as well, and the quality of what I get to see is improving as well

prattypus

04-21-2009, 12:57 PM

Does anyone know of any reptile expos in Colorado>

MasSalvaje

04-21-2009, 01:40 PM

Does anyone know of any reptile expos in Colorado>

I know there is the Rocky Mountain Reptile Expo that is in Denver. I believe it is every 6 months. The next one is coming up real soon on May 9th. Here is a link with a little info, I could not find the official site though.

Reptile Show and Event Calendar (http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-events/reptile-events.aspx)

Hope this helps!

-Thomas

sschind

04-28-2009, 11:53 AM

At the local show I set up at I got a quite a few people looking at the Melanistic Easterns I had and everyone liked my young puget sounds. One guy wondered why I was asking $50.00 for snakes he could catch in his back yard (I asked him how long he was visiting from Wasington state and he didn't get it) but for the most part there was a lot of interest. Of course no one was buying but a lot of people were looking and saying how neatthey were. I'm hoping it continues if my female E. blackneck pops. She looks huge and she is getting ready to shed as I type. I think, if I do get babies and they look as good as the adult did when they were small, I won't have a problem getting rid of them.

adamanteus

04-28-2009, 02:48 PM

I think there is a fair amount of interest in Garters 'out there'. I sold all my '08 babies without a problem, and I have orders for more '09 babies than I am likely to produce.

Stefan-A

04-28-2009, 02:51 PM

It's going to be interesting to see how difficult it will be to sell my vagrans kids. Frankly, I don't expect anyone around here to understand the difference between different garter species. Everything's "T. sirtalis" around here, no matter what species it actually is.

adamanteus

04-28-2009, 02:55 PM

That has been the attitude in the UK for as long as I can remember, but I think it's changing.

Serpentine99

04-28-2009, 11:01 PM

Stefan-A

04-29-2009, 12:46 AM

MasSalvaje

04-29-2009, 01:00 AM

I don't get what people see in garters that makes them so low compared to other snakes. Is it the general commoness of them? Is it because T.sirtalis is often a feeder snake and inexpensive? Is it because they're slightly on the smaller side compared to pythons and kings? Which one is it I must know?

I would have to say all of the above.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are in this hobby for what I will call the "sex appeal" factor. They are just trying to look good, or macho, or whatever the reason be, with little interest in the actual behavior and natural tendencies of the animal. Therefore they need something that is very low maintenance and impressive to show off. Garters are, for the most part, neither of the two. They are found in many yards or parks across the country, and they are not going to impress anyone by their size so the benefit of using them to show off is much less then the attention they require. It takes a genuine love and interest for the animal to keep a Garter, unlike other snakes that make it easier to look at as an accessory.

You always hear stories from people on this and other forums talk about how they loved Garters growing up and then they branched off into the "sexy" snakes, but for most they always seem to return in some degree to the Garters because of the necessary relationship involved in keeping and caring for them.

That is my opinion anyway, I am sure there are others that have their own distinct opinion on the matter.

-Thomas

guidofatherof5

04-29-2009, 04:33 AM

IIt takes a genuine love and interest for the animal to keep a Garter, unlike other snakes that make it easier to look at as an accessory.

You always hear stories from people on this and other forums talk about how they loved Garters growing up and then they branched off into the "sexy" snakes, but for most they always seem to return in some degree to the Garters because of the necessary relationship involved in keeping and caring for them.

That is my opinion anyway, I am sure there are others that have their own distinct opinion on the matter.

-Thomas

I think you said it pretty well , Thomas.

It's the connection these snakes make. A personal connection. Something special that goes well beyond just keeping them. Therapeudic perhaps, in my case. I get a lot of good from them and in some way I think they do too and know it-This being my personal opinion.:rolleyes:

drache

04-29-2009, 04:58 AM

hm, yeah
I guess most garters don't stay put well enough to be of much use as a fashion accessory

Stefan-A

04-29-2009, 05:18 AM

It would be interesting to hear how those other people explain it. Anybody feel like asking that question on a forum where that kind of snobbery occurs? We can always speculate, but it'd be interesting to hear it from "outsiders".

Snaky

04-29-2009, 05:38 AM

I asked it once and got an answer like:
"A garter is like a shoelace and not a real snake."

I didn't bother asking this anymore after such a ridiculous answer... He was more a boa/python guy.

drache

04-29-2009, 07:51 AM

the most straight forward answers I've gotten from people whom I've questioned about their disdain, usually indicate that they simply don't find them impressive enough

Quibble

04-30-2009, 11:28 AM

I feel more attracted to garters then any other snake simply because many people don't appreciate them. I've never been the kind of person to go with the popular things, like iPods, fancy cars, expensive cell phones, and other stuff. I guess im one of those people that wish others would open their eyes and do something out of the ordinary, and not want things just because 'their neighbor has it'.

Its not the fact that im poor and cant afford much, (which is true) its the fact that im rebellious and like to be the different one of the crowd. :D

Even if and when garters become more popular, ill still be amazed by them, and ill be able to say 'I loved them before you knew how awesome they are!';)

Seere121

05-01-2009, 03:57 AM

I've always been interested in snakes since I was a kid. I have quite a few snakes, mostly small pythons and rat snakes, but I have a 20g long set aside in my room for my 3 garters. They are the most active snakes of all of them, and seem genuinely interested in their surroundings and they love to socialize.

GarterGeek

05-01-2009, 04:22 PM

aSnakeLovinBabe

05-01-2009, 06:35 PM

Well, I did get some garter snubbery at the past hamburg show, but it wasn't as bad as it can be at times. I had one guy telling me all about this ONE albino checkered garter he was selling with it's "setup" like he was an expert. I mentioned that I specialize highly in garter snakes and he immediately became offended when I said I was not interested at all in this snake. he's like... So you don't want her? I said no, because she's not in top shape and I am not interested in the incredibly inbred albino checkereds. I said what are you feeding her? He said three fuzzies once a week. I said, she's too thin and small for a year old, you need to start feeding her small meals once every 3 or 4 days. "no no, that will give her heart problems". "that's why I said SMALL meals, sir".

Oh, and her "setup" that was included with her, was a dirty medium sized plastic critter keeper, with really nasty looking mulch, and a water dish that would fit in the palm of my hand. Poor girl, she was half the thickness that she should have been at her length. I was not surprised to see that she was still there halfway through the show.

I walked away really annoyed as he was telling me how she would make a great starter pet for some kid. Hopefully that kid is taking better care of her!!!

aSnakeLovinBabe

05-01-2009, 06:46 PM

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are in this hobby for what I will call the "sex appeal" factor. They are just trying to look good, or macho, or whatever the reason be, with little interest in the actual behavior and natural tendencies of the animal.

I will agree with this statement entirely. Unfortunately, when I tell people I am into snakes, they look at me, and I am pretty sure this is what they assume. until they see my snakeroom and learn about the snakes I keep. It does truly take a certain kind of person to love and keep garter snakes, one that is truly in it for the observation and interaction with the snakes. Sadly, many of the girls I see that want to get into snakes, or even many that have snakes, have them for the accessory factor. Many guys just want to look tough. If you have a pet python, lord you must be tough. Don't come near me mister tough guy, you have a ball python! You are wayy out of my league.

Now, I am not saying that I don't ever take photos with my snakes, or anything like that, because obviously I do, but it is merely a by-product of my love and pure passion for them and everything about them. I would rather a picture of me be with a snake, than without one. I am not just another bimbo posing with a burmese python (actually i have been offered photo shoots with large pythons and turned them down) I pour my heart and soul into my snakes, and even people that don't know me personally can still see it in the fact that I am always decked out in snake jewelry which is basically the only jewelry I will wear, often wearing shirts from reptile shows or with snake slogans, and carry a purse with two photos of my own garter snakes on it. The car I am working on buying will have a custom plate titled "SNKEBABE" and I will have every snake slogan on the back of that thing you can think of. I proudly express my love for the world's most hated creatures and am not afraid to stand up to the criticizing questions and remarks I get!

Quibble

05-01-2009, 07:21 PM

You're all my heros.

I couldn't agree more.

k2l3d4

05-01-2009, 10:47 PM

I have also felt garter-snobbery. It is really sad that people can't appreciate these terrific little creatures. Sure, other snakes may be more glamorous but they're not as friendly, cute or curious.
I totally agree that many snake owners do it for the sake of their image rather than the actual snake.

I, actually, gave a speech on garter snakes in highschool once. I even brought my snakes in. I receive and A+ and the class loved it :rolleyes::D.
It felt great to educate people on something that matters to me and to see the class so enthusiastic about learning for once.

I did something similar to this.. my albino checkered is very docile.. so I took him in.. .of course in my sweatshirt sleeve, so he could have my warmth and be close to me.. .to my son's preschool and had a small presentation with him.. I was so cool, because these three, four, and five year old children have not been brain washed yet to be afraid of snakes... even the shyest kid there that had not spoken to me yet was practically in my lap wanting to see Little Dude.... I loved the animaiton in the kids's eyes when they saw this real live snake in their class.... unfortunately, now one of the kid's mothers will not even say hi to me and had to have the teacher confirm that I had shown her son a live snake......:D

GarterGeek

05-02-2009, 04:49 PM

I did something similar to this.. my albino checkered is very docile.. so I took him in.. .of course in my sweatshirt sleeve, so he could have my warmth and be close to me.. .to my son's preschool and had a small presentation with him.. I was so cool, because these three, four, and five year old children have not been brain washed yet to be afraid of snakes... even the shyest kid there that had not spoken to me yet was practically in my lap wanting to see Little Dude.... I loved the animaiton in the kids's eyes when they saw this real live snake in their class.... unfortunately, now one of the kid's mothers will not even say hi to me and had to have the teacher confirm that I had shown her son a live snake......:D

That's terrific! Hopefully, you've made a strong impression that will last for a long time. :)

Adults are always so much more biased than children - I was talking to this man a while ago who said: " I'd rather fight a tiger than meet a one-foot snake". No kidding - Those were his exact words. (He also thought that they were slimy)
Where do people get these ideas!? How is it that they can be so full of fear of something that's harmless? What are people afraid of? Seriously, what do they think is going to happen? - It'll mistake you for a worm?

k2l3d4

05-02-2009, 06:29 PM

That's terrific! Hopefully, you've made a strong impression that will last for a long time. :)

Adults are always so much more biased than children - I was talking to this man a while ago who said: " I'd rather fight a tiger than meet a one-foot snake". No kidding - Those were his exact words. (He also thought that they were slimy)
Where do people get these ideas!? How is it that they can be so full of fear of something that's harmless? What are people afraid of? Seriously, what do they think is going to happen? - It'll mistake you for a worm?

I think that I did..... One of the teachers really had to leave the room when I presented Little Dude from my sweatshirt.... (she thought I was crazy for not have him in a locked cage).... The other teachers did a pretty good job of not showing their discomfort. The children loved it!!!! and of course my son got to have the pride of mom bringing in "his" (my) snake into class.

Kady

guidofatherof5

05-04-2009, 05:36 PM

k2l3d4

05-04-2009, 10:05 PM

I take my radixes into my classrooms once a semester.
One of my teachers can't even handle hearing the word "Snake". She won't allow a snake in her room. She has one of her students check the hallway before she'll even go out, if it's my snake day. I've even avoided that wing of the building to keep her from vapor locking.

Lol... :D That is too funny. That is so awesome that you have something worked our so you can take them in once a month.. you should have seem the hassle I had to go through to get my son's preschool to let me take Little Dude (my albino checkered) into the school. I hope to do it at least one more time before he moves on to kindergarten though.

slipknot711

01-12-2015, 06:16 AM

i know we r talking about garters at reptile shows in general, and i know vendors can get busy and sometimes cant go into better detail of the care (if at all on purpose or not). IF i were a vendor id hand out basic care sheets, yes these ppl should do there own research before buying but impulse at the shows are crazy haha i know first hand. i just think half of animals that would otherwise not have the proper set up could benefit from care sheets. just a thought, i started to ramble sorry lol

BLUESIRTALIS

01-12-2015, 07:18 AM

As some of you already know i've vended a few shows with garters and have got positive and negative feedback. My garters got lots of attention at the show and most people showed alot of interest in them and thought is was cool that i had something different. Like others already stated most people couldn't even believe that garters came in so many colors. People were blown away by the adults, but were usually turned away by the babies especially when they asked about how to care for them and i told them there feeding requirements. They said the babies were too small and too much of a hastle to tend to. I think some people are just lazy and would prefer to have a baby that they can just throw a pink in once a week and they're done. That's ok though like others have stated garters are some of the best kept secrets! I did have a pretty good turn out at the last show as i sold over 40+ babies and even sparked some new interest in a few people and everyone of my customers went home with a link to thamnophis.com for the care sheet and all my contact info for questions. So i'm looking forward to this years show to see how it turns out!

Zdravko092368

01-12-2015, 11:15 AM

That's awesome Blue Sirtalis and the type of response I would expect. If you just tell people about garters they will look at you all funny eyed and probably think less of you but when you SHOW them how awesome garters can be they will change their mind.

The problem is, 90% of people who have seen a garter, saw your typical striped, ugly, probably dirty/scarred wild garter and it's usually smallish males since they are more common and more active than large females. And if they caught it they probably musked them and were overall nasty animals.

What they don't know is garters come in every colour of the rainbow, tame incredibly well in captivity(no musk, no biting, hand feeders), can get over four feet in some species and can live in groups.

Those things you have to show people cause they'll never believe it if you just tell them. I remember someone telling me garter snakes are like worms why would I want one then I showed him my three foot female and he was shocked that was a garter snake, imagine if I had an adult scotti or chapala to show him. Let's not all forget the people who never owned a garter that say garters are skittish nasty lil' muskers that make poor pets. Yeah because a wild garter is the same as a captive one obviously.

At least now I have this video I can show those people; https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152949567235568&pnref=story

I'm hoping to vend in two years or so since the small shows where I live tables are very cheap and I'm sure it will go well(i'm not looking to make a profit regardless). People are sick of seeing the same thing at expos all the time and the prejudice towards garters is 100% based on lack of knowledge, once people see them they become believers rather quickly. Besides the super tough guys who just want a snake wristband/necklace to walk around with and show off to their friends, but I don't care about those people anyways since they won't stay interested in reptiles for long based on personal experience.

@Ashley, I believe handing out a care sheet with every garter you sell at an expo is a good idea, for any reptiles, but especially lesser appreciated ones like garters. A lot of bad information out there and most people will think they know what's best for something as simple as a garter and not bother doing research unless you literally give them all the information yourself.

snakegirl909

01-12-2015, 11:26 AM

The problem is, 90% of people who have seen a garter, saw your typical striped, ugly, probably dirty/scarred wild garter and it's usually smallish males since they are more common and more active than large females. And if they caught it they probably musked them and were overall nasty animals.

I have to disagree.. I don't think wild garters are ugly at all! I love "typical striped" garters. They are my favorite looking ones of them all. Imho, there is no such thing as an "ugly" garter.

d_virginiana

01-12-2015, 11:31 AM

I've known several people who get turned off by the size of the babies not just for feeding purposes, but because they're scared to handle something that small and they want a snake they can pick up.

Wild garters are ugly at all! I love "typical striped" garters. They are my favorite looking ones of them all. Imho, there is no such thing as an "ugly" garter.

I like several of the wild types; especially the erythristics we have near the coast here in NC

Zdravko092368

01-12-2015, 11:33 AM

Wild garters are ugly at all! I love "typical striped" garters. They are my favorite looking ones of them all. Imho, there is no such thing as an "ugly" garter.

Not to you or me but the hobbyists looking for something with colour and flare certainly think they are ugly and think all garters look like those wild ones they think are ugly.

snakegirl909

01-12-2015, 11:40 AM

Ah ok. Many garter morphs are naturally occurring which is pretty interesting aswell

slipknot711

01-12-2015, 01:46 PM

the naturally occuring morphs are what make me go on garter alone herping trips... i just need to find some new spots... or just visit Mel cuz i swear when her and i were herping her area i saw a "smallish" black snake (like a garter) but got away... and i need to find him again lol

ObsidianDragon

01-12-2015, 02:31 PM

My garter IS a skittish little musking bugger still, so sometimes it's hard to argue against that. Haha. I had to get some stuck tail shed off him earlier in the week and that was complicated by his perpetually trying to flee!

I'd love to breed some and take them to the local shows though--I'd possibly be the only one with something other than balls or carpets. My husband is against me breeding though, convinced that I'd want to keep them all.

Noooooo, I wouldn't...much. :p