Mexican species

[Thamnophis]

On my Dutch Thamnophis-forum I got the question why Mexican species are not known in the hobby.
Is this because they are protected by law or is there another reason?
Who knows?

[Snaky]

Who asked that question?:rolleyes::D

[Sid]

Trying to find an honest answer to your post and located this::confused:

U.S. Denies Protection for Mexican Garter Snake
WASHINGTON, DC, September 28, 2006 (ENS) - The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced Tuesday that the Mexican Garter Snake does not warrant protection as an endangered species under the Endangered Species Act. The agency was responding to a petition and lawsuit by the Center for Biological Diversity, which sought protection for the species.

The Fish and Wildlife Service recognized that the garter snake is extirpated from 85-90 percent of its range in the United States and that the species is declining, and severely threatened by multiple factors in both the U.S. and Mexico. Even so, the agency concluded that the species should not be protected.
The Center for Biological Diversity expressed dismay with the decision, and said it reflects the Bush administration's disdain for protecting imperiled species.
"The Bush administration is perfectly willing to let the Mexican Garter Snake go extinct in the United States," said Noah Greenwald, conservation biologist with the Center for Biological Diversity and primary author of the petition. "This willingness is typical of the administration's disregard for the nation's wildlife."
Mexican garter snakes reach a maximum length of one meter, range in color from olive to olive-brown to olive-gray, and have three yellow stripes that run the length of the body. The species is dependent on the dwindling rivers and streams of the southwest United States and northern Mexico. They feed primarily on native frogs and fish, but also occasionally eat lizards and mice.
Its decline is closely linked to the deteriorating quality of streamside habitats, the disappearance of native frogs and native fishes and the rampant introduction and spread of non-native species, such as bullfrogs, sunfish and bass. The species has vanished from the majority of its range in the United States, but can still be found in a handful of areas in Arizona.
"The decline of the Mexican garter snake is symptomatic of an extremely widespread decline in the aquatic fauna of the Southwest," said Dr. Phil Rosen, herpetologist with the University of Arizona.
Greenwald noted that many species of wildlife have been protected in the United States despite their occurrence in other countries, including the gray wolf, grizzly bear, killer whale and Canada lynx.
Of particular disturbance, Greenwald added, is that the Fish and Wildlife Service recognized that the garter snake is also severely threatened by multiple factors in Mexico - the species is listed as threatened by the Mexican government. "Given the severity of threats to the survival of the Mexican Garter Snake, it should have been listed across its range, including Mexico," Greenwald said. "The Fish and Wildlife Service refused to list the Garter Snake across its range because there haven't been surveys in Mexico, not because it is secure."

[Thamnophis]

This article is only about Thamnophis eques, I think. The subspecies megalops lives partly in the USA.

What I meant was species like

Thamnophis godmani
Thamnophis errans
Thamnophis mendax
Thamnophis exsul
Etcetera.

Would a reason for their absence in the hobby be that they are not easy to find?

[drache]

are there any South Western members here?
I'm wondering whether perhaps people from that region know more about this.

[adamanteus]

Do you think, perhaps, this lack of Mexican species could be caused by a lack of intereset? Obviously not amongst Garter enthusiasts like ourselves, but in the reptile keeping hobby as a whole. Maybe the demand for these species is just so small that no one (dealers) considers it worth while collecting them in the wild.

[GarterGuy]

Actually you don't see any Mexican species.....they pretty much protect them all. It's just easier for them to say nothing goes out then to try and set up permits and such for sustained collection. I've heard other herpers complain that they can't get certain Mexican species and this was the reason given as to why.
Roy

[adamanteus]

So, just blanket protection on all species, Roy?

[GarterGuy]

Yeh, think that's pretty much how it's been working. I know years ago you used to be able to get Mexican species (we've all seen the Mex. Redleg tarantulas for sale)....used to get them in at the petstore I managed, but then all of a sudden, there were none. I talked to my livestock guy and he said they "shut down" Mexico....which I imagine pretty much means nothing gets out now, and I haven't seen any non-captive bred Mexican species since. From an article that I read in Reptiles Mag., they also stated that it's just not profitable enough for the Mexican gov. to set up a permit program to allow for limited collection. Apparently, there aren't any real "marketable" species that would really bring in the bucks.
Roy

[adamanteus]

Shame. Australia used to have a blanket ban on all species, I believe. But of course you see all sorts of Ozzy stuff these days. So you never know, maybe in the future.....

[GarterGuy]

I think the Mexican gov. has to be a bit more stable before that will happen...LOL:eek:

[adamanteus]

We should try for a coup....I can see it in the news now "Thamnophis.com takes over Mexican government. Trade restrictions lifted"! :D

[abcat1993]

Yeah, we just need some bodybuilders like Arnold to help us (sorry if nobody from another country knows who I'm talking about).

[Thamnophis]

I tend to be happy with a total protection for all species. That's better than they let everybody catch all living creatures.
On the other hand it would be nice that there was a possibillity to collect some specimen of the Mexican species for the hobby and for studying them.

Look at Thailand. They export everything that makes money and eat all of the animals that cannot be sold. And now you can hardly find animals overthere. Someone i know went there and they had days that they did not see one animal. Not even birds!

[adamanteus]

I know what you mean, I don't think wildlife should be seen as a "commodity" either.

One thing Thailand has...Cobras, loads of them. I had a "run in" with a large Ophiophagus hannah over there. I ran away!!

[Thamnophis]

Ofcourse are not all animals gone, but ordinary people seem not to see them anymore.
Reptilefreaks like us always will be able to find them.

I can understand hy you ran, James :D

[Sid]

I tend to be happy with a total protection for all species. That's better than they let everybody catch all living creatures.
On the other hand it would be nice that there was a possibillity to collect some specimen of the Mexican species for the hobby and for studying them.

Look at Thailand. They export everything that makes money and eat all of the animals that cannot be sold. And now you can hardly find animals overthere. Someone i know went there and they had days that they did not see one animal. Not even birds!

I agree with you. Much better to over protect than to destroy. Found that Mexico allows no export on any type of reptile, not just Garter Snakes.

Sid

[adamanteus]

I can understand hy you ran, James :D

I had no hooks, grabs or anything. Just toilet paper!!:o :D

[Cazador]

How convenient! I bet that if you weren't using the TP before you had the run-in, you were using it afterward :D.

[Thamnophis]

How convenient! I bet that if you weren't using the TP before you had the run-in, you were using it afterward :D.

You took the words right out of my mouth... :)