Can someone help me find....

[GehyraVorax]

I realize that these aren't exactly garter snakes, but I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me or at least direct me to somewhere that can.

I'm looking into getting two species of snake. I've called around to my local reptile stores and they're looking into getting them for me. The problem is that I'm having a hard time finding information on how to keep them other than just general care sheets. If anyone knows where to find either the information or the snakes themselves, I'd appreciate it.

The first snake is a rough green snake (Opheodrys aestivus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus)). I don't care about which subspecies it is so long as I can get a pair of the same.

The second snake is an Idonesian garter snake or striped keelback (xenochrophis vittatus).

If anyone has any information that could help me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[gregmonsta]

Petco has been selling striped keelbacks labelled as 'Canadian garters', amongst other titles. Although you need to be aware of the potential parasite load, vet bills and feeding issues that may come your way. These will be wild caught and not best cared for by the company.

[count dewclaw]

There is an ad on Kingsnake for a rough green snake pair. The price may be a bit high, not sure. They are offered from time to time on Kingsnake from several different vendors. I haven't dealt with any of the vendors, so I can't tell you if they are good or bad....

[GehyraVorax]

I am aware of the potential problems with these guys, but I'm not really sure what my other options are, in terms of a snake that will suit my needs. I don't particularly like dealing with wild caughts for more than one reason, so I've been calling around to try to find some captive breds. As for Petco, they're not the brightest. I asked if they could special order one for me (after giving several of the common names), but the manager insisted that all garters and related snakes are illegal in my state. I was pretty sure this wasn't true, but I double checked with my local fish and game office. Turns out they are definitely not illegal, nor are any species of Colubridae except the one that is federally prohibited.

As for the kingsnake ad, they're asking a bit too much. The one place that I found that says they can definitely order the green snakes priced them out at something like $9, sexed. But I do appreciate the info. Like I said before, though, I'm mostly trying to find more advanced care sheets than what I've already seen, which weren't really much at all...

[Justinviper]

I don't believe you will find any of those two snakes captive bred. I could be wrong though.

[GehyraVorax]

Pity. I was hoping to find some. Ah well. I guess maybe I won't be getting a snake after all. =o(

[Justinviper]

I'm sorry, why only the rough green or striped keelback? if you don't mind me asking.

[GehyraVorax]

I'm actually afraid of snakes... I like them, don't get me wrong, but I am afraid of them. I'm finally in a place where I can expand my collection (I keep geckos of varous species), and I thought I would try my hands on one. But it'd have to be small, easy-ish to handle, not horribly expensive, and (most importantly) it has to eat something other than rodents. The green snakes are insectavors. I prefer to rough to the smooth. The striped keelback can live healthily off of fish, provided you are careful about which kind to feed and you suppliment properly. As least, everything I've read about them says that. Hence trying to find a bit more information... Of course, if anyone has other suggestions, I'd be happy to listen.

[Stefan-A]

We've had a few discussions here about both green snakes and especially striped keelbacks. They're anything but hardy or user friendly, especially the wildcaught ones that they sell in pet stores.

[Justinviper]

You're really limiting yourself with those requirements. I guess you could go out and try and catch a couple of ringnecks or rough earth snakes.

[count dewclaw]

Garters don't have to eat rodents. They can live on a diet of fish, earthworms, and/or amphibians. Just make sure you choose the right kind of fish (thiaminase-free) and add some reptile vitamin/mineral powder to the worms. You can even use fish fillet (again the safe kind) instead of live fish (vitamin/mineral needed every few feedings). Garters are about the same size as the snakes you're looking at and some are very easy to handle. If you get normal colored garters, you can find relatively inexpensive captive bred snakes. Of course, I may be biased toward garters......:D

[Justinviper]

We have a winner :)

[Stefan-A]

Like LeAnn said, garters don't have to eat rodents.

I'd like to point out that rodent-eating snakes are perhaps easier to keep, in that feeding them wrong is a bit more difficult to do and they are because of that a bit more suitable as a first snake. But if rodents are an absolute no-no, then generalists like garter snakes are the second best thing.

[GehyraVorax]

It's illegal to catch anything wild here or bring in anything that is native. I've got a permit for some illegals I keep, but I wouldn't be able to add on for anything native. I know it's limiting, but there's not really much I can do about it. As for whether they're hardy or anything like that, I'm not really worried about it. I'm not trying to be egotistical or anything, but I've had a lot more experience with various species than your average herp keeper. I've got info on how to keep them, and provided it's accurate, I'm fairly certain I can keep them well.

[count dewclaw]

Depending on where you live, there are probably some non-native garter species you could keep. :D

[GehyraVorax]

Erk, I somehow missed that there was an entire other page when I made my last post. Sorry about that, I wasn't trying to ignore what everyone was saying.

I was wondering about garters, but the things that I had read about them basically said that they weren't as healthy if you didn't feed them rodents. I thought it might've just been an issue about the type of fish, but I wasn't sure. Since this seems to be the case, can someone recommend a fairly inexpensive one and more specific info for caring for it? ^.^

[Serpentine99]

You could get a Ribbon Snake. Basically a garter and my main diet for it is Rosy Reds and supplements. They are very entertaining as they are constantly zooming around their cages, they never bite, and if bought early enough can become accustomed to handling. Oh yeah and very inexpensive plus you can find captive breeders for them pretty easily.

[count dewclaw]

I was wondering about garters, but the things that I had read about them basically said that they weren't as healthy if you didn't feed them rodents. I thought it might've just been an issue about the type of fish, but I wasn't sure. Since this seems to be the case, can someone recommend a fairly inexpensive one and more specific info for caring for it? ^.^

What part of the country do you live in? That will determine what species you could purchase. If you haven't already looked at the care sheet on this site that is a good place to start http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet

There is also a thread about a fish-gelatin mixture you can make. My snakes really like the mix (except my ribbon snake). http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/4881-fish-gelatin-total-success.html

Hope those help.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

You could get a Ribbon Snake. Basically a garter and my main diet for it is Rosy Reds and supplements. .


No offense, but that's not a good idea at all. Rosy reds contain thiaminase, just like goldfish. Since thiaminase blocks the absorption of thiamine, you can supplement all you want, but the snake can't absorb it anyway because of the thiaminase. Stick to guppies and trout/tilapia/salmon.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

And as previously stated, rough green snakes and keelbacks are going to come to you WC and in pretty shabby shape. I did see CB rough greens available once not too long ago but they went fast. Whether or not you have expierience with different species of herps is not the issue. The issue is that if you purchase a WC, unhealthy snake, such as these, 95% of the time, the snake will be dead within a few months, even with the most impeccable, immaculate, obsessive care. I personally have a TON of expierience with these typs of snakes in particular, and even for me, someone who can get even the pickiest snakes to eat and turn around into happy healthy snakes, have had to watch my keelbacks die without seemingly anything wrong outwardly with them. It really sucks to and is very discouraging when you are trying so hard to establish healthy individuals and produce quality CB specimens, and your adults which are doing SO well suddenly drop dead on you. It happens all too commonly. I say, go with a garter for a first snake, at least with that you stand a GREAT chance of having a happy healthy long term pet snake, instead of a slim to none chance. There are many many different species and subspecies of garter snakes. Depending on where you live some will be okay for you to keep, some won't. What state are you from?

[Justinviper]

I would love to see quality CB stripped keelbacks, they are real sweethearts and very nice looking imo. I had one a while back but it died. Shannon, out of curiosity, how much were they asking for the CB rough greens? I think rough greens are stunning looking snakes but to me dealing with crickets is a pain. Back on topic though, I agree, go with the garter snake:)