HR669 - Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act

[Stefan-A]

I thought you in the US might find it interesting. I bet this is being discussed on other forums as well, but maybe there's somebody here who hasn't heard about it. It mainly concerns our members in the United States, but I don't doubt that it will have consequences elsewhere as well.

Here's a video explaining the details:
YouTube - Pets in Peril (politicians gone wild) HR669 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FPfL212CB8)

[snakeman]

Them banning pets is the least of our worries the way things are going now.

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah.... i've been following this closely....:(

[Sid]

First I have heard of this. Hopefully it will not have a chance of passing. Thanks for the heads up, Stefan.

[MasSalvaje]

My Rep. is on the commity that is over this bill. I have sent him an email and am working on a letter and a phone call. From my experience with him I do not think he is very excited about it so I hope that is a good sign for how others will take it as well.

-Thomas

[Quibble]

I just came accross this bill earlier today, is there anything someone like me can do to help? (being a very inexperienced but extremely willing to learn and take action kind of vertically-challenged-gal!!) =D

[k2l3d4]

that is nuts! I had no idea but I am willing ot take action against HR669 Already sent an email petitioning agianst 669.

[adamanteus]

That's rubbish! It mustn't pass, the repercussions would be world wide.

[drache]

it seems unlikely that it will pass - it's just a bit too crazy
makes me wonder who is actually behind this

[reptile_jones]

Here is a great web site for info on how to help stop this bill,

NO HR 669 (http://www.nohr669.com/index.htm)


Thanks,
Dusty Jones

[dashnu]

It will never fly... IMHO it been blown out of proportion. People have been talking about it for a while now. They will not pass a bill right now that will worsen our economy. This bill clearly will.

[Stefan-A]

It will never fly... IMHO it been blown out of proportion. People have been talking about it for a while now. They will not pass a bill right now that will worsen our economy. This bill clearly will.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

[dashnu]

yea true we have done worse.

[drache]

ha, i've got it
this bill was thought up by bureaucrats who just want to put a stop once and for all to their kid pestering them about the stupid hamster they want

[Stefan-A]

Whoever came up with it, I can't believe they actually think it would have the desired effect. Where do they think the banned nonnative animals will end up? Where do they think the native animals that will replace them will come from?

[drache]

yup - it'd end up being one of those un-enforceable laws, just because law-enforcement has bigger issues to deal with than routing out contraband pets
it's already like that with our restrictive laws in NYC - that cop walking through your living room to see whether the guy they're looking for is hiding out on your fire escape, is going to completely ignore the nile monitor, a) because they don't know what they're looking at, and b) if they admitted that they did know what they were seeing, they'd have to fill out a crap-load of paperwork and wait until animal control shows up, and . . . and they're on a different track at the moment, and animal control really doesn't want to hear from them - particularly not if the animal seems well-cared for, because now - because of the law, they have to come up with some place for the animal or euthanize it
I don't think this law is going to be met with cheers from the law enforcement community either
frankly I'm still trying to figure out who would greet this with cheers, other than said bureaucrat with the pain-in-the-butt kid wanting a pet

[Stefan-A]

frankly I'm still trying to figure out who would greet this with cheers, other than said bureaucrat with the pain-in-the-butt kid wanting a pet
Organizations like Peta, who aim at banning all pets eventually and the average exotic pet-hater, who openly admits that he/she can't (and does not want to) understand why anyone would like to keep them anyway. And then there's the misguided uneducated environmentalist types, who refuse to take the consequences into account.

And various others, who don't expect there to be any unintended consequences, or who choose to conveniently ignore them.

[drache]

oh - I forgot about most of those, and I suppose I may not be taking them seriously enough, but it is true that some of them make rather more noise than their numbers warrant

[bkhuff1s]

No on HR669 - Morelia Viridis Forum - chondro - Morelia Viridis - Message Board - Yuku (http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/topic/11054/t/No-on-HR669.html)

They are trying to ban non native reptiles

Bryan

[Stefan-A]

I merged the threads, hope you don't mind, Bryan. :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

really tho... what are they gonna do? search EVERY home in america looking to steel a little girls hamster??

[Stefan-A]

really tho... what are they gonna do? search EVERY home in america looking to steel a little girls hamster??
Tell me about it. It would be utterly impossible to enforce that law.

[Snake lover 3-25]

yup just like a whole bunch of the other ones that many people don't even know about....

[sschind]

They wouldn't be searching homes because the law provides for those already in captivity to remain so. you just can't breed them or sell them or move them across state lines. The law is not unenforceable, rather it is unlikely to be enforced. Nitpicking perhaps but there is a difference. If the law is on the books it is enforceable if the appropriate agencies choose to do so.

I happen to agree with those whose sentiments are that it will not pass. It is too broad and has far too much economic impact to be a viable option right now. That doesn't mean we should sit around and wait. By all means we should all contact our representatives and let them know how much of a bad idea this is.

The bad part is that once these bills get going they don't stop. This one fails and they change it a bit and introduce another one. Eventually someone lets their guard down or the bill seems too watered down for most people to care and boom, they have their law and they have their foot in the door.

[Stefan-A]

They wouldn't be searching homes because the law provides for those already in captivity to remain so. you just can't breed them or sell them or move them across state lines. The law is not unenforceable, rather it is unlikely to be enforced. Nitpicking perhaps but there is a difference. If the law is on the books it is enforceable if the appropriate agencies choose to do so.
Nitpicking isn't necessarily bad. :)

Considering that there's no way of knowing who owns what species at the time the law is passed, that few can even identify them, that nobody can keep track of whose animals reproduce as well as the presumed reluctance to waste resources enforcing the law, it would be a law that couldn't be enforced to any meaningful extent. In individual cases, it can certainly be enforced.

[bkhuff1s]

On a positive note, if this passes the "worth" of our garters would sky rocket.... ok so that doesn't make it any better...

[Stefan-A]

On a positive note, if this passes the "worth" of our garters would sky rocket.... ok so that doesn't make it any better...
I doubt that garters would become much more popular, not as long as there are corn snakes.

[sschind]

Nitpicking isn't necessarily bad. :)

Considering that there's no way of knowing who owns what species at the time the law is passed, that few can even identify them, that nobody can keep track of whose animals reproduce as well as the presumed reluctance to waste resources enforcing the law, it would be a law that couldn't be enforced to any meaningful extent. In individual cases, it can certainly be enforced.

Right, it's like the 4" turtle law. It is selectively enforced and only when there looks like a chance of a big payoff (fines etc). Yeah, local law enforcement may send someone around to the tourist traps selling the babies if they get a complaint but so few people even know its illegal that the chance for the complaint is slim. I would guess this would be the same way. You could probably keep breeding your geckos and ball pythons and selling them to your neighbors and the chances anything would ever be done about it would be slim. The problem is that the potential for getting into trouble is there and whether or not you think its a good law you would still be breaking the law. One thing is for sure, swap meets and the like would be finished.

As far as garters becoming more popular, it could happen. A lot of people who are into the exotics might switch to something else. There is a lot of competition in corns right now and the garter field is pretty much wide open. No offense to anyone here in the states producing garter morphs but Scott Felzer is pretty much the only one I know of.

[adamanteus]

I really hope that breeders don't take Garters down the same road as Corn Snakes..... I really dislike all the man-made fancy 'morphs', I find them completely unattractive. 'Wild colour' and true to species/sub-species is the only choice for me.

[sschind]

I really hope that breeders don't take Garters down the same road as Corn Snakes..... I really dislike all the man-made fancy 'morphs', I find them completely unattractive. 'Wild colour' and true to species/sub-species is the only choice for me.

I'm with you. I like the natural colors. I think that is what really got me interested in garters in the first place, all the natural variations. In fact, I thought all T.s. pickeringii were blue but DIRK just posted a picture of a normal one. It looked really cool from what little I could see (that's a hint DIRK to post a full body shot)

You know there will always be some who will try to come up with the weird stuff and that's fine but it will never be for me.

[k2l3d4]

and see i am the sucker for the morphs... I really fancy the albinos, and somewhere in here I keep seeing these beautiful blue garters (i got to get one!)

[sschind]

The thing about the blue ones (I think you are referring to T.s. pickeringii) is that they are a naturally occurring morph. No human manipulation. Some people argue that the albinos are also a natural occurring morph and they are right. Its just that its a mutation that does not sustain itself in the wild as a distinct population (like the melanistic Eastern garter) and so I am not interested in them. I have yet to see a morph of any reptile that I think is prettier than a really nice normal.

[bkhuff1s]

I don't mind the merge at all stefan, I still think that if this over turns the reptile industry, there will be a huge spike in native prices.

[dashnu]

There is so much more to this bill people are not looking at and should in my opinion. Fish and Wildlife all over the states are busy enough tracking and managing the already banned animals. From what I understand there is a HUGE HUGE illegal ring of animal sales that brings in TONS of cash to the people that do it. A 6 billion dollar a year industry! Like they need to add to it. Like they can afford to add to it. No more local breeders means more take and illegal trade from the wild, more damaging for the wild species. Wild animals numbers are even being threatened this will only add to that problem.

[MasSalvaje]

I would just like to remind everyone to contact their Representative and let them know your educated opinion on HR 669. Be honest and classy, nothing can hurt our cause more then ourselves and how we react to this so please maintain your composure!

This is a response that I recieved from my Representative, Jason Chaffetz.


http://chaffetz.house.gov/emails/components/ChaffetzHeader.jpg (http://chaffetz.house.gov/)







May 5, 2009



Dear Mr. Wilder,

Thank you for taking the time to contact my office regarding HR 669, the Non-Native Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act. This very important issue has far-reaching effects and has received a great deal of attention here in Washington DC .

As you may know, the House Natural Resource Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans, and Wildlife held a legislative hearing regarding HR 699 on April 23. I have engaged in discussions with other Members and with my personal staff regarding this bill. We have also received a plethora of phone calls, emails, and faxes from various constituency groups. Arguments for both sides of the issue have been made, and I very much appreciate all thoughts and opinions as I continue to evaluate the issue.

As this bill works its way through the full committee and on to the House floor, I will certainly keep your views in mind. Again, thank you for contacting my office, please do not hesitate to do so again in the future with any other questions or concerns.
.



Sincerely,

Jason Chaffetz
Member of Congress

I encourage everyone to get involved if you have not already.

-Thomas