In the field

[adamanteus]

I would be interested to hear stories (and see pictures) from our American and Canadian friends relating their adventures/experiences collecting Garters in the field. I'm sure other people would also want to read these.

Here in the UK we only have three native snake species:mad: , one of which is so rare (Coronella austriaca) that you have more chance of winning the lottery than seeing it in the wild! I have collected our other two species in the past (Natrix natrix helvetica and Vipera berus) but I'm sure that can't compare with the experiences of you people with such a diverse herpetofauna on your doorstep.

So, let's hear your tales!! You tell me yours and I promise I'll collect and photograph the two afore-mentioned species this year for your entertainment!:)

James.

[Sid]

James,

When I was much younger Eastern Garters T. sirtalis sirtalis were the most common snake I found. Sadly not true today. The following is a list of all South Carolina's snakes. I've added status of what I found field herping in 2006.

Species in SC Observation Status1. Black Rat Snake Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/brat.htm)Yes1. Yellow Rat Snake Elaphe obsoleta quadrivittata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/yrat.htm)Yes1. Corn Snake Elaphe guttata guttata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/corn.htm)Yes1. Black Racer Coluber constrictor (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/racer.htm)Yes1. Eastern Coachwhip Snake Masticophis flagellum flagellum (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/cwhip.htm)1. Eastern King Snake Lampropeltis getula getula (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/chain.htm)Yes1. Mole King Snake Lampropeltis calligaster rhombomaculata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/molesnk.htm)Yes1. Scarlet King Snake Lampropeltis triangulum elapsoides (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/scarkng.htm)1. Pine Snake Pituophis melanoleucus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/pinesnk.htm)1. Southern Hognose Snake Heterondon simus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/shognos.htm)1. Eastern Hognose Snake Heterondon platirhinos (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/ehognos.htm)Yes1. Eastern Garter Snake Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/garter.htm)Yes1. Eastern Ribbon Snake Thamnophis sauritus sauritus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/ribbon.htm)Yes1. Peninsula Ribbon Snake Thamnophis sauritus sackenii (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/pribbon.htm)1. Eastern Milk Snake Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/milksnk.htm)1. Rough Green Snake Opheodrys aestivus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/greensn.htm)Yes1. Scarlet Snake Cemophora coccinea copei (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/scarlet.htm)1. Northern Ringneck Snake Diadophis punctatus edwardsiiYes1. Ringneck Snakes Diadophis punctatus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/ringnkd.htm)punctatusYes1. Eastern Worm Snake Carphophis amoenus amoenus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/wormsnk.htm)Yes1. Brown Snakes Storeria dekayi (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/dekay.htm)Yes1. Redbelly Snakes Storeria occipitomaculata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/redb.htm)YesRough Earth Snake Virginia striatula Eastern Smooth Earth Snake Virginia valeriae valeriae1. Pine Woods Snake Rhadinaea flavilata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/pwodsnk.htm)1. Southeastern Crowned Snake Tantilla coronata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/crowned.htm)1. Northern Water Snake Nerodia sipedon sipedon (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/nortwtr.htm)Yes1. Midland Water Snake Nerodia sipedon pleuralis (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/midlwtr.htm)1. Brown Water Snake Nerodia taxispilota (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/brwnwtr.htm)1. Redbelly Water Snake Nerodia erythrogaster erythrogaster (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/redbwtr.htm)Yes1. Banded Water Snake Nerodia fasciata fasciata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/bandwtr.htm)1. Florida Green Water Snake Nerodia floridana (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/fgrnwtr.htm)1. Queen Snake Regina septemvittata (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/queensn.htm)1. Glossy Crayfish Snake Regina rigida rigida (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/glossys.htm)1. Carolina Swamp Snake Seminatrix pygaea paludis (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/swampsn.htm)1. Rainbow Snake Farancia erytrogramma erytrogramma (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/rainbow.htm)1. Eastern Mud Snake Farancia abacura abacura (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/mud.htm)1. Copperhead Snake Agkistrodon contortrix (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/copperh.htm)Yes1. Cottonmouth Snake Agkistrodon piscivorus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/cotton.htm)1. Timber Rattlesnake Crotalus horridus horridus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/timber.htm)1. Eastern Diamondback Crotalus adamanteus (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/ediabks.htm)1. Carolina Pigmy Rattlesnake Sistrurus miliarius miliarius (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/cpigmys.htm)1. Dusky Pigmy Rattlesnake Sistrurus miliarius barbouri (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/dpigmys.htm)1. Eastern Coral Snake Micrurus fulvius fulvius (http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/coral.htm)

Each speciman has a hyperlink to South Carolinas web site with photos.

Sid

[adamanteus]

Jeez! Sid, you just posted my wish list! There are one or two species on there I've had dealings with Storeria dekayi I've had (and bred), nice snake, and most of the Elaphe. I'm guessing the Copperhead would be A.c.mokasen? I love the Agkistrodon snakes. And of course the Eastern Diamondback...I kept a pair for years and years, my favourite snake...hence my user name!! You must have tales to tell about your adventures hunting these species down?

James.

[GarterGuy]

Ok here's one.....The one pic of the Eastern Garter (T.s.sirtalis) from my T.s.sirtalis gallery...the one from Grubb Lake that's a large close up. Me and my wife were just hiking around the lake for the first time, just a relaxing stroll. There's a 1mile walking/running path around it. Of course I've got the digital with me, never go outside with out it during the warmer months..LOL.:D As we're walking around, I keep hearing grass rustling just off to the sides of the path. As we keep going along, I see it's garters that are basking on the path and then rushing into the weeds as we approach. I wasn't able to catch, either with hand or lense, any of them 'til we came up to this area where there was a bit of a hill. This one garter took off, but couldn't climb up the hill....so I reach out and grab it. It procedes to shoot backwards over it's self and tries to bite me. I drop it and then quickly grab it again and plop it out on the path. All the while my wife is shrieking...she doesn't mind snakes in cages....but in the wild is different. After being put in the path, the garter just coils up and sits there, waiting for a fight. I clicked off some great pics....and then stepped back and it went on it's way. It was really funny how such a little snake stood it's ground once it was "exposed".....garters really have attitude, just something more to love about them.
Roy

[adamanteus]

Roy,
Nice story, it was good that you were able to get a photo too. This year I'm definately going to collect Natrix natrix helvetica again, hopefully I'll get a couple of pictures of that.

Sid,
Good link, there are some great photos on there! Have you seen the one for Crotalus adamanteus (adult head shot)? Yummy!!:D

[Gyre]

This summer while I was camping upstate, I came upon a baby melenistic T. stirtalis shedding! Unfortunatly, I didn't grab it, bacause I wasn't positive of the species at the time. I still have the skin, and I only figured the species out thanks to adamanteus's scale count thread. :) Thanks again.

A few years ago, I also found a huge (at least, 36 inches) female T.stirtalis eating a nest of robin eggs. Nothing fancy, just fun to watch. :)

[adamanteus]

Wow. I once had a young Dasypeltis scabra for a very short time.. I thought feeding it would be a problem but I was able to locate a finch breeder who supplied me with eggs for a couple of months.

[Sid]

James,
My absolute best find last spring and my first find for the year was a 2005 male sirtalis sirtalis. My oldest son had joined me and we had flipped rocks, logs, etc. for a couple of hours and I had totally run out of breath. Ready to give up and head back to the house, we were about to past a large fallen tree in a pasture and decided, one more try!! I cleared the leaf litter from the shady side of the tree to insure we wouldn't be rolling the log onto anything living, then after some effort (a 30 foot long log) we managed to roll it over and there lay "Wiggles":D . There's a photo of him in my photo gallery.

Sid

[adamanteus]

So, I guess Wiggles is a good eater!:D Judging by the photo. Have you never been tempted to collect venomous species when you come across them, Sid?

[Sid]

James,

I raised five sons and now have seven grandchildren, one of which lives with us. Top that off with the fact my wife is terrified of ANY snake and the answer is no, not really. Have caught some, but don't bring them home to Mama.

My son Jason and I have some trips planned this year for the mountains north of us and the South Carolina and North Carolina coast and I'm sure we will see our share on those trips. Hope to get some good photos of them and will share if we do.

Sid

[adamanteus]

I'll look forward to seeing those pics Sid! And if you need someone to carry your bags.......!

[adamanteus]

Sid,
Have you ever come across Crotalus adamanteus in the wild? As I mentioned I kept them for years, but they were long term captive bred. It must be quite different in the field, and something I mean to experience if I ever get "Stateside"!

[Sid]

Several years ago, in the mountains, north of me. I'll be back there some this spring.

Sid

[adamanteus]

Sid, That just isn't enough information...! Tell the tale!

[Sid]

Sorry about the brief reply. Fact is , I was a Boy Scout Troop Master and took my troop up for the week-end along with some other local scout masters. Several Timber Rattlers were found by the boys. You should have seen the kids "proudly" displaying them. They were marching around with them crawling around on dead tree limb that they were using as make shift reptile hooks. We locked them in cages until our stay was over. The camp master release them in a more remote area after we left. Had it not been for the fear of the kids getting bitten, it would have been a little funny, just wasn't at the time.

Sid

[adamanteus]

I never dealt with a Timber Rattler, but I've always wanted to. What's the specific name for the "Canebrake" variety (Crotalus horridus.....?) I can't remember without consulting books! I've always thought they were particularly attractive.

[KITKAT]

When I was young and foolhardy, I came across a black snake that was hidden in some orchard grass. I could see the midsection but not the head or tail.

Well, thinking a black snake would be a Racer, I foolishly took hold of the middle of the snake and withdrew it from the grass.

When I saw the rattle... I tossed it very fast!

Melanistic Massasauga.:eek:

But I'm glad to say it is on my life list!:cool:

[Cazador]

Even better, I'm glad is wasn't the last one on your life list ;).

[adamanteus]

Not quite "in the field" but close......

One Saturday night, a few years ago, just as I was getting ready to go out and "hit the town":cool: I had a call from the police to say that a guy had found a 2 foot snake in his luggage on returning from holiday in South Africa, and would I please go get it.

I turned up at his house armed with a snake-hook and a large bucket with a snap on lid. He directed me upstairs and said the offending ophidian was hiding in a cardboard box full of computer parts. When I opened the box I couldn't see a snake at first, there was a printer and a jumble of cables, wires and scart leads. I had to lift the printer out, which was awkward because of the wires, and there underneath it, all coiled and ready to strike was a juvenile Cape Cobra (Naja nivea)!:eek: To my horror the printer had stuck as I lifted it, so I was lifting the box too. Also, the wires were plugged into the printer and the snake was entwined in the wires. I couldn't drop the printer without crushing the snake, nor could I lift it out quickly and cleanly.

I stood totally still, not even daring to breath and after a few seconds the snake relaxed a little, so I was able to pull the machine clear leaving the wires trailing into the box.

I then had to disentangle the animal from the cables using the hook. Deadly spaghetti!!:D As I lifted it out the snake was going wild, striking out in every direction, Cobras are so fast and supple it was like trying to pick up water on the hook. It might have been easier if the animal had been a bit bigger, but then again he would have had a longer reach.

I was able to persuade him to wrap the front of his body around the hook and then with my free hand I took his tail and, pulling slightly to encourage him to pull against me, I managed to drop him into the bucket.

I took him home and put him in an empty viv. Then I got the shakes!!:o At that time he was the only Cape Cobra in the UK, so I knew there was no antivenom in the country.

He was a fascinating snake. I kept him for about 18 months. During that time he settled really quite well and stopped going "hoody" (except when I lifted him out to clean up). He was really inquizitive and never stopped searching his vivarium for a way out, checking every tiny hole in the air vents and the edges of the glass doors. Pretty unnerving really, even though I had complete faith in the integrity of the viv.

[drache]

scary
I once came upon a rattler when taking a moonlight walk along a small airstrip in the Mojave near Joshua tree.
I was walking past something that looked like a small rounded rock, maybe a foot in diameter and half that high. Suddenly the rock rattled. It felt like it was rattling my spine, actually. I just kept walking . . .
When I was a little kid - six or so - I was with my dad and we came upon a vipera berusin a pile of leaf litter under the filbert trees. I remember it being pretty and my dad telling me to leave it alone. I only saw it that one time.
Last summer I saw a large garter in a loose rock wall, at a friends house about an hour north from here. She just moved there last spring and said that there's lots of snakes there in spring and early summer. I'm hoping to check that out this year

[adamanteus]

Don't forget to take your camera to your friends' house! How long have you been in the US Rhea?

[drache]

- need to get some film - not yet digital
- since '76

[abcat1993]

I have a story. So, I went hunting for deer in southwestern IL, and it was getting late and we hadn't seen any, so we were walking around and we finally sat down on the side of a hill. I got up and moved a little bit over, and saw that I was sitting on a little foot long snake with brown bands over grey. After playing with it for a while I finally put it on the side of the cliff and went away. After going home and looking up what it was, I figured out it was a timber rattlesnake.
If that made no sense it's because I'm a crappy storyteller and it runs in the family.

[adamanteus]

Remember my story (on page 2 of this thread) about the Cape Cobra? Well I found a couple of pictures of him. They're crap photos, but I thought I'd share them anyway!!:p

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//541/medium/Cape_1.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//541/medium/Cape_2.jpg

[adamanteus]

I've found another crap picture! This time of "McGregor" one of my Eastern Diamondback Rattlers. I can't believe I have no decent pictures of this guy, I had him for years!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//541/medium/McGregor.jpg

Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake. (Crotalus adamanteus).

[abcat1993]

Wow, I wish I had the guts to have a poisonous snake. I wouldn't even want to open the cage.

[adamanteus]

Wow, I wish I had the guts to have a poisonous snake. I wouldn't even want to open the cage.

They're not so exciting really Matt, they just lay around all day! Garters are far more entertaining.;)

[abcat1993]

Yeah, but they look, I don't know, exotic? Cool maybe? That would be great to scare people you hate with (as long as there aren't any laws about them)

[adamanteus]

For people who live outside the States, Garters are exotic. And they're certainly cool!

[Cazador]

Holy cow, James! How long is that cobra?

[adamanteus]

I think he was about 3' by the time that pic was taken. I had him 18 months and never took a decent one. It's weird, I've had so many reptiles come and go over the years that I took it for granted, I struggle to find pictures of anything now. Wish I had the time again!

[GarterGuy]

Very nice looking cobra, looks like it came through it's ordeal pretty good off. Love cobras, just the venom stuff gets in the way of keeping them for me. Think that's why I like garters, they're nice and active and alert like cobras, but with out the nasty nuerotoxins.:cool:
Roy

[adamanteus]

He was a fantastic animal, I was quite sorry when I had to let him go. But as you say, the danger is just too great to justify keeping such a snake for longer than necessary. I had him for 18 months, long enough to get some experience of dealing with a fast, intelligent, venomous species.

[Stefan-A]

Think that's why I like garters, they're nice and active and alert like cobras, but with out the nasty nuerotoxins.:cool:
Roy
It's not nasty, but it does seem to be neurotoxic. At least according to what little info I have been able to collect on the subject. :D

Besides, cytotoxins are nastier. ;) No, I don't have anything to back it up with, but purely as an exercise in imagination, getting killed with neurotoxins or hemotoxins seems nicer.


James,
Any suggestions for a first venomous snake? Any suitable Vipera (not berus)? I have no intentions of getting bit.

[adamanteus]

If I had to choose, I'd go with neurotoxins. But to be honest I'd rather not get bitten at all!

[adamanteus]

James,
Any suggestions for a first venomous snake? Any suitable Vipera (not berus)? I have no intentions of getting bit.

Definitely Copperheads (Agkistrodon contortrix), Stefan! Really pretty, settle well to captivity, breed readily, available in Europe and if things go terribly wrong the venom isn't very potent (comparitively speaking). I love them to bits!

Some of the other European Vipera species would be interesting too, V. aspis etc. But watch out for the venom there, some are more potent than they're given credit for.

[drache]

Why not V. berus? Are they cranky?
Their venom isn't that strong either.
The one I met in the wild did not seem aggressive, but I also didn't try to pick it up.
Rhea

[adamanteus]

Personally, I've always found V. berus really difficult. They just don't like captivity. Or maybe it's me, missing something vital?

[Stefan-A]

Copperheads are among the candidates. I actually expected them to be more venomous.

What about V. ursinii? I saw some for sale a few months back and I've seen CB ammodytes, wagneri and latastei for sale, too.

I've heard V. berus being called difficult by people with decades of experience, so I'm not going to even consider that one.

[adamanteus]

All of those would be on my list! Especially ursinii and latastei. I didn't know you could buy them! I think ammodytes has a pretty potent venom.

[Stefan-A]

For some reason they seem a lot easier to come by, than garter snakes. :D I've seen all of them for sale on a local forum during the last 12 months.

The Viperas, not copperheads.

[adamanteus]

In the UK you hardly ever see venomous species of any kind for sale. The licencing laws are pretty stringent here. Guess I need to go shopping in mainland Europe! Do you have a dangerous wild animals licencing system in Finland?

[Stefan-A]

No, not to my knowledge.

[adamanteus]

Wow! I have to move to Helsinki!! Right now!

[Stefan-A]

Just visited that forum again, this is what somebody had for sale a week ago:

Vipera (Pelias) lotievi
Vipera kaznakovi
Vipera albizona
Vipera raddei raddei
Vipera wagneri

All Cb and with known localities. And he lives pretty close to where I live during the weekends. :eek: He had a Coronella austriaca as well. Can't believe I missed that one.

[adamanteus]

V. raddei would be good for me. Never seen that one in the flesh. Can you post a link to that forum, Stefan?

[Stefan-A]

I'll send you a PM.

[rwgsnakes]

i have had to many experiences with garters in the feild to even scratch the surface, but there was one day that really stands out....

It was last summer, after one of those hurricanes and we had like constant rain for like 3 days straight, the fourth day was about 75 degrees and sunny. Friend and i went to the state park, the creek was like 15 feet higher than normal.http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/waterfall.jpg --that water fall is normally a dry rock ledge.

Well there was a bridge that had collapsed a while ago and just the sides of it are still there, well when we turned the corner to look at the broken bridge side, there were 2 groups of 2 nerodia spiedon's (northern water snake) sitting on top of each other. That day my friend and i caught over 25 garters, 8 waters, and say a brown, ribbon, and not 100% sure but we think there was an eastern milk---not sure if it was that or a water that (bad angle)

here are a FEW!!! pics from that day.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/holdingwatersnake2.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garteronbrigde.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garterattack.jpg

[rwgsnakes]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/Garteronstick.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garterheadshot.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garter.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/garterinhand.jpg

[drache]

some nice snakes there

[adamanteus]

Good story and good pics. Did you photograph the Eastern Milk Snake?

[rwgsnakes]

no, unfortunatly we did not catch it. i have heard that there are a lot of them on the ap. trail, which is where i am going to be focusing most of my herping this coming summer

Thanks

[adamanteus]

One day I hope to walk the Ap Trail, end to end. Big ambition of mine.

[rwgsnakes]

this is a small garter i caught, brought home, fed, and released

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/lilgarter.jpg