Thamnophis in Europe?

[GarterGeek]

I was recently trying to glean some perspective on the different species and subspecies of Thamnophis. I've learned that there are 13 different species and 40 subspecies native to North America. However; I haven't been able to find anything about Thamnophis native to Europe.
Does anybody have any basic information? The names of a couple garters would be really nice. :)

By the way, are garters found in any of the other continents: Africa, Australia...Asia? I've tried to google it but have always come up empty.

Any and all information is appreciated. Thank you. :D

[drache]

thamnophis are american species

[Snake lover 3-25]

yup only in north america:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Thamnophis are native only to north america!! :D:D

[GarterGeek]

Thank you! - That really helped. :)

I feel really sorry for all the other people, who can't experience these cute, little snakes. I can't imagine another species serving as an adequate substitute. :( It's such a tragedy!!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

yes but they can have san fran garters which SOOOO makes up for it lol:p

[Stefan-A]

Thamnophis are native only to north america!! :D:D
And Central America.

[Snaky]

In Europe we have Natrix, which is also very fun to observe. They are also fish/amphibian eaters and you can keep them in the same way as Thamnophis :)

[adamanteus]

Indeed. Natrix are similar in many ways to Thamnophis and Nerodia, sort of the European equivalent! Nice snakes.:)
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/green/misc/subscribed.gif Grass Snakes. (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/707-grass-snakes.html?highlight=Grass+Snakes)

[guidofatherof5]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but how and when did Thamnophis get across to Europe? Can they still be exported to Eurpoe with special permits or are you all working from groups that where established there before. Did it spring out of international zoo cooperation, smuggling or what. I'm just curious as to how it happened and do you have access to a fresh gene pool. Other than Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia how do you replace what you have and still introduce different genes to the mix.

[Stefan-A]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but how and when did Thamnophis get across to Europe? Can they still be exported to Eurpoe with special permits or are you all working from groups that where established there before. Did it spring out of international zoo cooperation, smuggling or what. I'm just curious as to how it happened and do you have access to a fresh gene pool. Other than Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia how do you replace what you have and still introduce different genes to the mix.
Linnaeus described some garter species and subspecies in the 1700's, although I don't know if he worked with live specimens or just dead ones. Some may come from zoos and universites, but my guess is that most were brought over from the 1950s onwards.

Importing them shouldn't be much of a problem these days, I'm pretty sure the worst part is getting them out of the Americas. Some species are CITES listed and are more difficult than others. I think one of the parents of my vagrans females, was actually one of Felzer's snakes, but I could be wrong. So there is a certain flow of genes from North America to Europe. edit: "The mother is a wildcaught snake and the father is a baby from Scott Felzer stock." (So spake the breeder I bought them from)

[gregmonsta]

Currently there are still semi-regular imports (Panama is an excellent example :D) of WC Thamnophis. I think there are a few breeders too that still get access to fresh bloodlines from America too (be it private import or at reptile shows).
I think originally garters came here to be studied - then Zoos - then private collections. Not sure on the date tho lol :rolleyes: I'm sure it dates back to somewhere in between 1800-1900s ... but don't quote me on that ... :rolleyes: I can barely visualise reading something to that extent.

[zooplan]

Some species are CITES listed and are more difficult than others.
Sorry, but I don´t know any Thamnohpis that is CITES listed, and you don´t need any papers at all for keeping and breeding any Garter Snake in most European states.
Professional importers still get them in big numbers and sell them to lokal pet shops. Private breeders ( mainly members of the EGSA) can buy them from SF or other breeders too.
We have a lot of species and morphs here.
You may have a look at the stock list of Informationsseiten der Reptilien-Züchtergemeinschaft-Norddeutschland! (http://www.thamnophis-zucht.de) for example.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry, but I don´t know any Thamnohpis that is CITES listed,
You're right. CITES.org has T. hammondii in their database, but there are no Thamnophis species in the appendices. I was under the impression that T. gigas and T. hammondii were CITES species, but obviously I was wrong.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

And Central America.
okay, you got me :p