releasing my snake :(

[snakems]

*sniff sniff* :(

... so spring is fast approaching & soon it will be time for me to let snakems go back into the wild where she came from.
though possibly irrational, Ive been worrying about things lately when i think of doing this.
For those of you who know more than I, I'd like to ask some questions that may not even necessarily be "answerable" lol
However I'd appreciate opinions if that is in fact the case.

I know she was originally wild and I know she will know what to do and her instincts will take right over when i let her go, but Ive been wondering if she will be more susceptible to injury/being someone's lunch, or starving because she's gotten so used to me providing her with food, and protection.
I mean Im not a COMPLETE ****** so i know shes not gonna be completely clueless when she gets out there but as far as movements & sounds go and the way she's come to really enjoy being handled I feel like thats going to screw up her judgement out there. Like here she's so used to noise and me sticking my hand in the cage to get her (she comes out of wherever she is when she hears the lid open, and climbs right up my hand/arm like she's been expecting me) that I feel like predators are going to be able to do the same kind of thing and she wont react defensively or try to escape as quickly as she normally would before I took her in. This really just worries me and I was wondering what you guys think about the whole transition into the wild again. Its not like she's a store bought snake or anything but it seems she's gotten so "domesticated" so quickly.
Am I worrying over nothing or is this a legitimate concern?

[snakems]

:eek: sorry! I said something offensive out of a shameful habit I have to curse or say rude words :(
no ill intent!:o

[gregmonsta]

The points you raised are valid ... but I'm pretty shure her natural instincts will kick in as soon as she gets out there. As it stands she's had the winter of her life :). Any behaviours associated to her time in captivity should in theory revert to some degree. It's natural that you care but it's your choice. Either option (keeping/releasing) seem perfectly valid.

[Snake lover 3-25]

or.... you could just keep her especially if she has adjusted well to captivity.... and it seems like it would save you a lot of worry :)

[snakems]

The points you raised are valid ... but I'm pretty shure her natural instincts will kick in as soon as she gets out there. As it stands she's had the winter of her life :). Any behaviours associated to her time in captivity should in theory revert to some degree. It's natural that you care but it's your choice. Either option (keeping/releasing) seem perfectly valid.

thanks that is helpful. any of your ideas/knowledge/opinions are appreciated!

[adamanteus]

Sayra. I think you should keep her. I honestly do.

[Snake lover 3-25]

me too :)

[snakems]

or.... you could just keep her especially if she has adjusted well to captivity.... and it seems like it would save you a lot of worry :)

yeah....
unfortunately my cat is HELLBENT on getting to the tank and im close to slow as far as being attentive. I really shouldnt have any type of animal that needs me any more than an outside cat lol
I love her but aside from the fact that I know she'd be happier in the wild, I just dont trust myself with snakes since she was attacked by the cat. I've had nightmares about it every night since lol
NO JOKE.

[Snake lover 3-25]

could you reinforce the cage so that the cat can't get her?

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol i vote yes and i'm the # 5 top poster so i get 200 votes lol:p

[snakems]

Sayra. I think you should keep her. I honestly do.

thats what EVERYONE is telling me lol
maybe its the fact that IM HORRIBLY obsessive due to my severe OCD but Im terrified she's just going to drop dead on me and its going to be because of something I did wrong or DIDNT do for that matter.
lol i'd throw myself off a bridge!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol if you feel that way then how would you feel if one day you hit her with your lawn mower?? or ran her over with the car? or used pesticides on your lawn and she ate a worm that had eaten it and then she died???

[snakems]

lol if you feel that way then how would you feel if one day you hit her with your lawn mower?? or ran her over with the car? or used pesticides on your lawn and she ate a worm that had eaten it and then she died???

I didnt catch her at my house so I will prob never see her again lol
where she came from none of those things would be an issue as I found her at my dads house on his property across the street from the house in a leave pile lol
no one mowes and i dont imagine she'd have need to ever go toward the street.... theres a stone wall and spring close by in the opposite direction of the road

[Snake lover 3-25]

ugh just keep her already!!!!!!!

[snakems]

hahaaa... time will tell i suppose.
ive been thinking of releasing her later spring now because the weather here is so erratic. To ensure it's warm enough. Either way i mean if she were in the wild she'd be finding a place to keep warm on the cold days of spring out of brumation so its kind of silly but its what Im leaning toward.

[Snake lover 3-25]

ha ha lol fist signs!!! you push the date back!!! you already named her!!! how will you ever do it!!! don't worry we (or at least me) will bug you till you keep her lol:p

[adamanteus]

I think you should keep her. I think you must. At the very least, she has leaned not to fear humans. That alone will prove fatal if you release her.

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah what if some one goes down to the place you release her and she goes up to them, they get scared and smash her with a shovel? and it was all because you tamed her too much!:p i could do this all day! how do you think i convinced myself to keep meadow? lol:p

[MasSalvaje]

Not to sound like the "incompassionate one" but you should keep her for the simple fact that it is illegal to release any animal that has spent time in captivity in most places.
*Note if it is legal in your area, disregard the above message.

-Thomas

[snakems]

well in my defense, its not as thought the time she spent in captivity, she would have spent doing anything other than brumating considering the only reason I kept her is because I thought it was strange she was out so late in the season...
I thought she might freeze (whether that was silly or not) if I DIDNT bring her in for the winter (the only time I have had her in my possession.)

[wolfpacksved]

yeah, we call it the 17 day rule in my neck of the woods. after seventeen days in captivity, it is illegal to return an animal back into the wild. why the number seventeen, i don't know, but that's the law. i can see both sides of the coin, but generally lean toward not releasing animals back into the wild due to the potential for introducing pathogens into wild populations. but who knows? There is so much man-made waste out there that reeks havoc on wildlife :mad: ....well, whatever you decide, hope it works out :)

[olive oil]

I say keep her.
Or find someone else to give her to:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would recommend keeping her....in some states it's illegal to release reptiles once they have been taken into captivity. she's doing well with you....so why not keep her! :cool:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

either keep her, or find her a good home. at this point, James made a good point, she has learned not to fear humans like she would have months ago. She has become rather complacent and with her fear of large moving creatures reduced, she can fall easy prey to predators. If not that, it could very well end up in a shovel to the neck, or someone else scooping her up and taking her captive, and there's only a small chance that they will actually know how to care for her. My garter snakes would not make it a day. They see me and they move forward! It's pretty much just plain common sense not to release a prolonged-captive snake back into the wild.

[ssssnakeluvr]

there's a number of us on here that would give her a good home. losing the fear of humans is the worst thing that could happen....could very likely end up her demise in the long run.

[adamanteus]

Sayra. Keep her!

[snakems]

yeah, we call it the 17 day rule in my neck of the woods. after seventeen days in captivity, it is illegal to return an animal back into the wild. why the number seventeen, i don't know, but that's the law. i can see both sides of the coin, but generally lean toward not releasing animals back into the wild due to the potential for introducing pathogens into wild populations. but who knows? There is so much man-made waste out there that reeks havoc on wildlife :mad: ....well, whatever you decide, hope it works out :)

THANK YOU, for being so understanding :) .... others do not have quite as much tact for stating opinions/insults lol

[snakems]

there's a number of us on here that would give her a good home. losing the fear of humans is the worst thing that could happen....could very likely end up her demise in the long run.

yeah... this was my fear pretty much :(

[snakems]

yeah, we call it the 17 day rule in my neck of the woods. after seventeen days in captivity, it is illegal to return an animal back into the wild. why the number seventeen, i don't know, but that's the law. i can see both sides of the coin, but generally lean toward not releasing animals back into the wild due to the potential for introducing pathogens into wild populations. but who knows? There is so much man-made waste out there that reeks havoc on wildlife :mad: ....well, whatever you decide, hope it works out :)

lol i like your signature

[MasSalvaje]

THANK YOU, for being so understanding :) .... others do not have quite as much tact for stating opinions/insults lol

I am sorry if you took my statement as an insult, I did not mean it as such. I was just stating a point that no one had mentioned yet. I have no problem with you taking the snake to begin with and I am not against you keeping it or letting it go, that is all up to you and ultimately you are the one that knows best.

-Thomas

[Pinky]

This is getting real in-depth!:) I say if you want to keep her, keep her.If not let her go...sounds like a great snake though and her chances of survival are much better in captivity, with proper care.Hhmmm It is a tough dissision, but it's yours to make.Good luck:)

[mtolypetsupply]

yeah, we call it the 17 day rule in my neck of the woods. after seventeen days in captivity, it is illegal to return an animal back into the wild. why the number seventeen, i don't know, but that's the law. i can see both sides of the coin, but generally lean toward not releasing animals back into the wild due to the potential for introducing pathogens into wild populations. but who knows? There is so much man-made waste out there that reeks havoc on wildlife :mad: ....well, whatever you decide, hope it works out :)


What pathogens would a snake pick up from being in captivity? I have heard this numerous times, and don't understand, as no one has explained exactly what diseases/parasites occur that are not present in wild populations. From where would they get it? Are there pathogens that humans carry that are zoonotic (cross-species transferrable)? What about other animals, dogs, cats, etc.? If your other snakes are vetted clean, no parasites, what aren't the vets testing for that can be transmitted?

Any links to veterinary journals/resources pertaining to those diseases/parasites and any scholarly journal/resource articles pertaining to the infection of native populations would be appreciated. I don't have a college library close enough to access those things.

[Odie]

I say keep her.
Or find someone else to give her to:)

Heck, I will if no dose :eek:

[Snake lover 3-25]

What pathogens would a snake pick up from being in captivity? I have heard this numerous times, and don't understand, as no one has explained exactly what diseases/parasites occur that are not present in wild populations. From where would they get it? Are there pathogens that humans carry that are zoonotic (cross-species transferrable)? What about other animals, dogs, cats, etc.? If your other snakes are vetted clean, no parasites, what aren't the vets testing for that can be transmitted?

Any links to veterinary journals/resources pertaining to those diseases/parasites and any scholarly journal/resource articles pertaining to the infection of native populations would be appreciated. I don't have a college library close enough to access those things.

yeah... this confuses me too..... :confused:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

THANK YOU, for being so understanding :) .... others do not have quite as much tact for stating opinions/insults lol

haha, certainly not an insult, but you are right when you say, I don't really have a nice way of putting some things... it's just the way I am! :o

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

What pathogens would a snake pick up from being in captivity? I have heard this numerous times, and don't understand, as no one has explained exactly what diseases/parasites occur that are not present in wild populations. From where would they get it? Are there pathogens that humans carry that are zoonotic (cross-species transferrable)? What about other animals, dogs, cats, etc.? If your other snakes are vetted clean, no parasites, what aren't the vets testing for that can be transmitted?

Any links to veterinary journals/resources pertaining to those diseases/parasites and any scholarly journal/resource articles pertaining to the infection of native populations would be appreciated. I don't have a college library close enough to access those things.


I don't have any links for you but somebody else may. all pathogens occur or originated someplace in the wild, and can be anywhere at any time. But all pathogens are not all over the place, some are in this area, others are in another. the problem, is that a snake who is exposed to one thing and tolerates it, carries it to a region where that pathogen is foreign and can potentially wreak havoc. Happened to some guy trying to "repopulate" spotted turtles... now if I can just find where I read that. I'll look around, it was on some forum somewhere!!! Exposure can be as simple as you going to your friend's house, sitting outside on the grass in their yard, coming home and checking on your snake.

[stonyloam]

OK Snakems here is my story: Couple of years ago I caught a big eastern female out next to the pool. Kept her for a few months till she had her babies. She was a very “friendly” snake and quickly got used to me. She would come to me and crawl into my hand whenever I opened the cage. After she had her babies she was released where I found her. A couple of days later she was out sunning next to the pool and I thought Cool, I’ll see if she remembers me. Took ½ step toward her and she was GONE, like she had never been in captivity at all. Saw her the next summer so she adapter back to the wild very well. So I would not feel bad about releasing a snake back where it was found. On the other hand I would be OK with keeping her. Snakes are pretty low on the food chain, so a life in captivity is not so bad. Example is Rhea’s Chloe, She was pretty beat up when found, and obviously from the scars had led a pretty harrowing life. She is FAR better off than she would have been in the wild (probably dead by now). So, what is the point? In my humble opinion either way, keep or release is OK it's up to you (but what do I know?).:D

[mtolypetsupply]

Exposure can be as simple as you going to your friend's house, sitting outside on the grass in their yard, coming home and checking on your snake.

So if that's the case, and pathogens come from human environments, what are we bringing in when we "field herp"??????

What precautions should we take before going into a herping area?

What precautions should we take before coming home to our own collections?

Rubber boots and clorox before going in and coming home? Deet or pyrethrin on our clothes?

[Stefan-A]

If you're asking for a list of cases where released or escaped animals have introduced diseases into the environment, there is no such list. When it comes to diseases that affect amphibians, Chytridiomycosis would be one such case and it's one with global consequences. When it comes to reptiles, it could be cryptosporidiosis, various intestinal parasites, respiratory diseases, trichomoniasis, mites (can also spread other diseases), IBD in boids, infectious septicemia or any of a large number of infectious diseases known to infect reptiles or amphibians. Even stomatitis (mouth rot) is highly contagious.

These are just examples of such diseases and there's no way for any of us to know what you could unwittingly spread to the wild population. We're not clairvoyant. It could be a virus, a bacteria, a fungus, a prion disease, a protozoa, a parasite etc. How big the risk is may vary, but it doesn't ever go away and there are countless strands and even strands of normally harmless bacteria that may be deadly to other individuals of the same species or other species. One problem is that it's usually identified only after it's spread into a population where there's no resistance to it and when it is already wreaking havoc. So what are the consequences of not taking the risk?

Obviously this problem has already been identified independently a number of times, the question is how many times do we need to learn the same damn lesson?

[infernalis]

My opinion: Either keep her and reinforce the cover, keep the cat outside.

Or give her away, Several have already said they will give Snakems a good home.

Releasing her is ultimately up to you, but as already said multiple times, a very bad idea.

[Odie]

Releasing her is ultimately up to you, but as already said multiple times, a very bad idea. or good :o

[snakems]

I am sorry if you took my statement as an insult, I did not mean it as such. I was just stating a point that no one had mentioned yet. I have no problem with you taking the snake to begin with and I am not against you keeping it or letting it go, that is all up to you and ultimately you are the one that knows best.

-Thomas

no no lol I didnt take what you said as an insult :)
no worries. thanks for your opinion.

[snakems]

OK Snakems here is my story: Couple of years ago I caught a big eastern female out next to the pool. Kept her for a few months till she had her babies. She was a very “friendly” snake and quickly got used to me. She would come to me and crawl into my hand whenever I opened the cage. After she had her babies she was released where I found her. A couple of days later she was out sunning next to the pool and I thought Cool, I’ll see if she remembers me. Took ½ step toward her and she was GONE, like she had never been in captivity at all. Saw her the next summer so she adapter back to the wild very well. So I would not feel bad about releasing a snake back where it was found. On the other hand I would be OK with keeping her. Snakes are pretty low on the food chain, so a life in captivity is not so bad. Example is Rhea’s Chloe, She was pretty beat up when found, and obviously from the scars had led a pretty harrowing life. She is FAR better off than she would have been in the wild (probably dead by now). So, what is the point? In my humble opinion either way, keep or release is OK it's up to you (but what do I know?).:D

thanks very much! good to get other's opinion! so eloquently put as well ;) kudos! :)

[snakems]

This is getting real in-depth!:) I say if you want to keep her, keep her.If not let her go...sounds like a great snake though and her chances of survival are much better in captivity, with proper care.Hhmmm It is a tough dissision, but it's yours to make.Good luck:)


Its true that I DO agree with her chances of survival being much higher in captivity with someone who knows how to care for her for sure. This I do not deny... like someone else said, I see both sides. I guess I simply just havent decided for sure yet.
Not to RULE IT OUT of course, but where I found her I dont see the risk of her coming into contact with humans being too great. This would not be my deciding factor but Im just saying. She has acres of amazing habitat to roam where no one would be unless we sell some house lots which we do not plan to do. other predators, I suppose would be another story. One upside would be that its VERY bushy and grown over (not to say that she's not capable of moving to more open feild but its not too close by) so predator birds wouldnt be a really BIG worry either. It just seems like SUch an AMAZING place to live to me for a snake or really any kind of small animal. She would have anything her little heart desires there and though I havent been in a year or so, theres a little stream in the back of the more grown woods with the BIG trees. Newts/worms and salamanders aplenty! also amphibians. ... its just tougher than you'd think to decide. I just dont know. :confused: :) *sigh*

[snakems]

So if that's the case, and pathogens come from human environments, what are we bringing in when we "field herp"??????

What precautions should we take before going into a herping area?

What precautions should we take before coming home to our own collections?

Rubber boots and clorox before going in and coming home? Deet or pyrethrin on our clothes?

VERY VALID questions!! my interest is piqued!

[adamanteus]

Whatever you finally decide, Sayra, no one can say you haven't thought it through!:D
Good luck to both of you, whatever you decide.

[snakems]

Whatever you finally decide, Sayra, no one can say you haven't thought it through!:D
Good luck to both of you, whatever you decide.

thank you very much!
I do understand that risks really are best left not taken at all especially when they can lead to serious consequences...
but really.... the circumstances under which this snake has been living have been optimal as far as sanitization goes. At least as far as what I could provide her with. One thing I HAVE ALWAYS done and literally NEVER not done since Ive had her is, scrub my hands THOROUGHLY with dial before AND after she is held. As frequently as I change the water and make sure the tank is clean this leads for SERIOUSLY dry hands from the amount of washing Im always doing. Even before Im touching something that's going to come in contacts with her
Though not impossible of course the chances of her transporting dangerous pathogens back into the wild are not much more likely than they were when I first caught her and brought her into the house for a better look (it was misting), so the whole "17 day rule" thing (To me PERSONALLY anyway) seems so silly. I get that you have to draw the line somewhere but i dunno.....
lol

[snakems]

My opinion: Either keep her and reinforce the cover, keep the cat outside.

Or give her away, Several have already said they will give Snakems a good home.

Releasing her is ultimately up to you, but as already said multiple times, a very bad idea.
I think I may have missed those posts.:o

lol i could list a million reasons why keeping the cat outside would be inhumane pretty much due to this specific cat lol but I dont expect others to know every detail about my situation here.
thanks for your opinion.

[keelerskiddiecare]

My personal opinion is also keep her if you feel you can keep her safe and care for her and if not give her to one of the people who have stated they would love to have her. I as well have helped wild animals temporarily and then tried to re-release back into their environment with negative consequences. Although never with a snake.

[Stefan-A]

I built my enclosures strong enough to keep small children out, so a cat-proof one is definitely possible to make. The one you have now may be a bit difficult to improve, if it's a simple glass tank, but it should still be possible.

[gregmonsta]

Something like this is cheap and easy to make ... even on a smaller scale lol ... might give you some ideas http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/4597-task-commences.html you'll find lots of good ideas in the enclosures section.