Worms verses Mice

[guidofatherof5]

Just wondering if anyone else has seen a difference in attitudes when feeding mice verses worms.
My radixes love eating worms but when it comes to mice(pinkies-fuzzies) it a whole different thing.
Yes, they are aggressive eaters with worms and salmon.

Show them a pinky or fuzzy and you better be prepared for major aggression. They attack it with much more speed and voracity. The size of the food doesn't matter. Young and older alike. The reaction is the same.
Any ideas on the different behavior? They also seem to want mice more often than worms.

[gregmonsta]

It's probably evolved through the need to subdue rodent prey quickly ... a rodent can do serious damage so it needs to be neutralised more rapidly than a squiggly worm or a gummy fish :D

[guidofatherof5]

It's probably evolved through the need to subdue rodent prey quickly ... a rodent can do serious damage so it needs to be neutralised more rapidly than a squiggly worm or a gummy fish :D

Makes sense.
I just don't think many people would consider a Gater snake as a mouse eater. Not their main food items. I can just imagine a large Garter coming across a nest of baby mice and having a field day. Mine would eat mice everytime if I let them.
In my area large radixes are common. They probably have a great impact on the rodent populations in the area. Just another reason to protect them from harm.

[gregmonsta]

I can just imagine a large Garter coming across a nest of baby mice and having a field day.

:rolleyes: if it moves and smells tasty it must be eaten!!!

[misskris]

I don't know. Simone seems more agressive with the worms than the pinks. I think because the worms are thrashing and wiggling. She eats her pinks like a perfect lady, while she'll fly across the cage and attack the worms.

[adamanteus]

I think if I have seen a difference in feeding behaviour between different food items, then I would have to say that worms and frogs seem to illicit the most aggressive response.... especially the later.
Many of my Garters are quite gentle at meal times and can be offered pinkies from my fingers... I wouldn't dare do this with a frog.... they'd have my arm off!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol yeah meadow loves frogs:)

[guidofatherof5]

I think if I have seen a difference in feeding behaviour between different food items, then I would have to say that worms and frogs seem to illicit the most aggressive response.... especially the later.
Many of my Garters are quite gentle at meal times and can be offered pinkies from my fingers... I wouldn't dare do this with a frog.... they'd have my arm off!

Wow, I thought for sure I would have a lot of people with the same situation as me. I wonder if there's something wrong with my radixes:D
I've never tried frogs but am going to get some tadpoles this spring when the family goes herping just north(18 miles) of our home.
Thanks to everyone for their input, so far.

[mtolypetsupply]

I think that Shannon just raises polite snakes. ;)

Both sets of mine slowly approach, flick the tongue, and begin their meal. I don't have aggressive feeders, just shameless gluttons. :)

I will say they get agitated/excited *before* getting into the feeding tub, I guess when they smell dinner, but once they get in there, they have rather nice manners.

[guidofatherof5]

I think that Shannon just raises polite snakes. ;)

Both sets of mine slowly approach, flick the tongue, and begin their meal. I don't have aggressive feeders, just shameless gluttons. :)

I will say they get agitated/excited *before* getting into the feeding tub, I guess when they smell dinner, but once they get in there, they have rather nice manners.

I guess I'm just raising a bunch of ruffians, manorless little hoodlums, anti-social deviants, law breaking miscreants, the dredge of radix society. I've failed them. And all this from a law enforcement officer. I hang my head in shame.:(

I'm sorry I have to go now. The pinkies are thawed and my lovely radixes want fed. :D

[Sid]

My experience is that any live prey get more quicker notice and attention than frozen/ thawed. This is with true in both my Garter collection and any other species.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I would say frogs and small wood salamanders elicit a downright scary feeding response from all of my garters... like, they are out for blood once they smell amphibian! I also noticed that if i cut up a pink, the scent of blood seems to drive them nuts as well...

[wolfpacksved]

my radix gobbles up mice and crawlers like there is no tomorrow. mice bulks em' up too. i back off from feeding mice occasionally because she gains weight pretty quick after a few fat mice.

[bigj2484]

3/4 of my garters will fly out of the cage for a mouse but when I try fish or anything else they have to investigate the food item before it is eaten and I have been bitten many times by garters because my fingers smelled like a rodent

[guidofatherof5]

3/4 of my garters will fly out of the cage for a mouse but when I try fish or anything else they have to investigate the food item before it is eaten and I have been bitten many times by garters because my fingers smelled like a rodent

It's wild to see their enthusiasm. Some of them really get into it.

[jitami]

I was all ready to chime in that my guys definitely prefer mice, but today I fed my younger two worms out of my yard. I left the dirt/mulch in a shallow container with dozens of worms and these two really went after them with enthusiasm! It was fun to watch. They'd poke their head into the "dirt", root around, then you'd see their body tense up and they'd emerge with a flailing worm hanging out of their mouth. When I used to cut pieces of night crawler and serve them with pinky pieces they'd usually go for the pinky pieces first. I don't think it could have been the movement of the fresh earth worms, because they had to hunt most of them sight unseen. Pretty cool, tho :) May just change my mind about feeding worms.... at least for a day or so until I have to clean the nasty poo out of the tank :D

[guidofatherof5]

:) May just change my mind about feeding worms.... at least for a day or so until I have to clean the nasty poo out of the tank :D

Please explain to me, when is it not nasty!:D
Mine, have to be laughing at me every morning. I reach in and pick it out. Since I use corn cob bedding it's not a big deal. They probably say to each other "We've got him trained"

[jitami]

Please explain to me, when is it not nasty!:D

I don't find "mice poop" anywhere near as gross as the slimy brown stuff. I usually just pick the crusty poo & urates out with my fingers when I change their water...it's mostly soaked into the carefresh and dried, so really no big deal... but not the brown slimy "worm poop." That requires tissue :o

[guidofatherof5]

I don't find "mice poop" anywhere near as gross as the slimy brown stuff. I usually just pick the crusty poo & urates out with my fingers when I change their water...it's mostly soaked into the carefresh and dried, so really no big deal... but not the brown slimy "worm poop." That requires tissue :o

Since they like pooping in the water so much, I wish they could be trained to use one water dish. Kinda like a snake port-a-potty.:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Since they like pooping in the water so much, I wish they could be trained to use one water dish. Kinda like a snake port-a-potty.:D

anything to keep them from rubbing their butts on the SIDES of the enclosures!! man do I hate that!

[guidofatherof5]

anything to keep them from rubbing their butts on the SIDES of the enclosures!! man do I hate that!

That's why they do it. The other night I did glass cleaning. In the morning it looked terrible.
They can't get their butts up that high. They must be boosting each other up.
They all had this silly little grin on their faces when I turned the light on. JERKS:mad:

[drache]

I think that must be some kind of marking behaviour

[keelerskiddiecare]

Steve,
Wiggles, was always more aggressive with the worms than the mice. It actually took months of trying for me to get wiggles to eat mice. Now he eats them quite vivaciously. As for frogs, look out you could loose a finger feeding him one of those!! :eek:

[drache]

just found this article of interest regarding worms - something to consider, depending on where you live
Worms absorb human pollutants | csmonitor.com (http://features.csmonitor.com/innovation/2008/02/28/worms-absorb-human-pollutants/)
somehow I've not been able to find the paper this is based on

[Quibble]

My Gimpie is like a tiger with worms, she stalks them then pounces on them with no mercy. She loves it when I give her a bowl of worms and wet dirt too. when I walk by her tank she pops her head out and has a huge mud-covered smile on her face! :D

[guidofatherof5]

My Gimpie is like a tiger with worms, she stalks them then pounces on them with no mercy. She loves it when I give her a bowl of worms and wet dirt too. when I walk by her tank she pops her head out and has a huge mud-covered smile on her face! :D

They do like to dig in dirt. I always leave the empty worm container in for them to search threw.

[jamromhem]

Mine tends to be very laid back.. she gets more aggressive with live fish, though I haven't tried feeding frogs yet.

Pinkies she seems to cuddle a little, then she moves em to another spot in her tank and leaves em there to cook in the lamps then she gets around to eating them later.. (she is strange) Worms she will stalk and wait for them to touch her face then she will bite then and drag em to her hide. (she is odd by many means)

[drache]

is anyone else here concerned about feeding their snakes prey that's essentially laden with environmental toxins?

[jitami]

is anyone else here concerned about feeding their snakes prey that's essentially laden with environmental toxins?

I've always been more comfortable feeding mostly rodents... but they are rather fatty compared to the snakes natural diet... toxins, parasites, thiaminaise... there's not one simple prey item that doesn't have it's own set of problems. Hey, whatever happened to garter grub? LOL Seriously, though, I prefer to stay with mainly rodents. They seem like more of a 'known entity' to me than frogs, fish and worms.

[Didymus20X6]

They do like to dig in dirt. I always leave the empty worm container in for them to search threw.

This might help explain something for me.

Last night, I watched fascinated as my green snake (I really need to come up with names for these guys - stupid broken imagination!) kept digging and burrowing around the enclosure last night. It was fun to watch, and I assumed she was just trying to explore, but the digging and burrowing was highly unusual.

But here's the kicker. Earlier in the day, I found a huge nightcrawler on my driveway. I was working on something, and this sucker was so big, I initially thought it was a small garter. I picked it up and dropped it in the enclosure, right next to ol' greeny (who was hiding in a bamboo tube, incidentally), and when I looked a little while later, it was gone.

I'm wondering if she was looking for more nightcrawlers.

[Mommy2many]

I am concerned about the environmental toxins. I get my worms from my old garden and/or woods. There are no pesticides or "anything" used out here that I know of. Wouldn't these worms be safer for my snakes?

I'm not scraping them off my driveway or patio. They are out in the dirt garden I had last year. (No pesticides used):confused:

[jamromhem]

well if there are no signs of pesticides then I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be ok..

Also if you are able to get worms at such an availability you are lucky :P I have to buy mine :P..

I live in hat as H**L texas and the dirt wouldn't support worms if I wanted it to..

I would see if there is some way to test for pesticides or something and grind up one of these worms or more and test it to see if it is holding any in it.

[drache]

I really don't know what's safe any more
I mean - not sure how toxins travel
after all, there's pharmaceuticals in the ground water now
I would assume that distance from industry and agriculture helps, but is no guarantee

[jamromhem]

My thought on it is... take a bucket of dirt. and some filtered water (preferred reverse osmosis after a chlorine filter/water softener. I have that in my house only cost a few grand :P ) make a worm bed. with the above mentioned items. Collect leaves from trees as they are still green. Oven dry them to kill parasites. (possibly precook the dirt to be sure) use the oven dried leaves as cover for the dirt and add some of the filtered water. This would be the purest thing I can think of for the decontamination of the worms.. i would also think to let the adults breed in small enclosures and pull the adults out and then use the second generation worms to prevent the toxins built up in the adults to be removed from the "semi-sterile" environment.

If you are that concerned.

My though is that if the area that you caught your snake or the area around your house it that toxic, then things probably would have all died there anyway. The world isn't that bad off yet. Getting there maybe, but not there yet. If there is not a environmental warning in your area then worry less.

Though the idea of a purified worm bed is a novel one. I might make one for the sake of beginning an earthworm feeder farm to sell worms to all of the toxin concerned peoples.

[Mommy2many]

I figured that since both worms and snakes came from same acre of land, can't be all that bad for either. We are not in an urban area and not pesticides are used on my property, so that has to be the safest place I can get anything, without resorting to my own purified worm farm:D Though I did try & start one for my snakes and that got icky really fast:eek: Not sure what I did wrong but you didn't want to open the lid...:confused::confused::confused:

[drache]

they're probably pretty safe where you are
sorry - I was in a bit of a doomsday mood yesterday

[Mommy2many]

No problem. The more info thrown at us the better we can make an educated decision. In the end, there are usually a few different ways to do things and we have to pick our own ways. I love to listen to everybody's input and then go from there. :rolleyes:

[BChambers]

No, I just think everyone is seeing a naturally more aggressive feeding reaction based on the species/population their snakes originally came from in the wild. Your radix obviously originate from a population of rodent feeders, while these others came from a more worm/amphibian oriented wild stock.

Not only are individual animals highly variable, so are species/populations!