Eastern News

[Sid]

This was a total surprise for me, but something I feel that needs to be shared with all of you on the forum.

I have kept my share of Easterns for a number of years and never had this problem. One of my JV males turned canibblelistic. He ate three of his enclosure mates. I've no idea why, all were about the same size and all were eating really well, being fed twice per week. Never having seen or heard of this in T. s sirtalis, thought everyone should know.

Needless to say the bad boy is now in solitaire.

[guidofatherof5]

Wow, Never heard of that other than by a feeding incident. Usually, a large snake eating a smaller one. I can't see how he survived eating 3. Wow, again.

[Snake lover 3-25]

wait how did he eat 3 snakes the same size of him?

[Sid]

wait how did he eat 3 snakes the same size of him?
I have no idea how he manage to get down 3, but one day all were fine and the next three were gone and one (about 9 or 10 inches long) was bigger around than a pencil.

[Snake lover 3-25]

huh strange..... well thanks for telling us!

[Zephyr]

Yearlings, Sid? Or younger?

[guidofatherof5]

Any chance they escaped? How long had it been since you saw them in the cage? To eat 3 would mean he/she would have been huge. I don't remember where I read it but I thought that sort of thing kills the eater also. Especially when they are about the same size. I will have to try to find the book info.

[olive oil]

That is crazy! I didn't think that would be possible.

[zooplan]

They may be able to wrinkle the eaten sibling to their stomach,
but than they look like an accordion.
I´ve seen it for swallowing one snake, but I can´t imaging it for three.

[Sid]

To answer a couple of your questions... These were from different litters, all born within two weeks of each other in the latter part of July. So, JV and not yearlings.

I don't believe any of the 3 had escaped as one female from a group of the same age did escape about the same time. Water bowls and heat lamps at floor level were put out and the female was recovered...no males.

The whole thing had to have happened over no more than two days at most.

[Jack Neary]

Sid,
I had my 4 month old Puget in a 10 gallon Viv with some other juvenile 4-5 month old Butler's and Eastern's, when one day I noticed my little Puget was gone. Like you, their water dish and over priced cave were placed low so I didn't think there was anyway for her to escape...
Could not see any huge bulges in my Butler's or Eastern's signifying that they ate my little Puget. I was certain that there was NO WAY my Puget could climb out of the 10 gallon Viv with the screen-top? All right... who ate the Puget? (No basement TV watching for you guys for 1 month, little b*stards)
About 3 weeks later, I heard a noise in my 3ft. tall trash can, next to my workbench. I look in the trash can and there's my little dehydrated Puget....!
I think if they get wet from their water bowl they can shimmee up the sides of the glass tank and, in my case, wedge themselves under the screen top and play a month long game of hide and seek with me..
Sorry to be long winded... But, I strongly believe your snake went AWOL and was not eaten by his pals...
Gotta believe you could could really identify if one of your snakes ate 3 juvy Garters.
Please let us know if you find them.
Regards,
Jack

[Gijs & Sabine]

I also think that an escape is more likely. We had cannibalistic problems with the young elegans vagrans, when one try to eat another then both will die, because they are the same size.
And I never heard of easterns being cannibalistic, not saying that it is not possible though.
One way or another, it's not nice...

[jitami]

Wow Sid...sorry for your losses! Just for my curiousity... when were the boys last fed? Was the female escapee housed with the boys?

[ssssnakeluvr]

I am leaning more towards escapes.....pretty hard for a snake to eat one its own size, let alone 3. baby garters can crawl right up the glass when wet. I have seen this happen.

[drache]

one maybe, but three?
I hope some of those babies turn up for you

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed for you!!!

[infernalis]

I took pictures of one of my easterns crawling right up the glass.

It happens. They get wet and scoot right up.

Sorry to hear about the loss Sid.

[adamanteus]

Well, I have seen a California King Snake eat two (dead) Corn Snakes in one sitting... both longer than itself. It survived and put on considerable growth after the event. I don't doubt Sids word for one minute. These animals are capable of the most amazing swallowing feats. And Sid has more experience than most of us. It's interesting (and worrying) to hear about cannibalism in sirtalis. I think it would be folly to dismiss this warning out of hand... we already know that cannibalism is common place in marcianus and vagrans. Maybe it occurs right across the Thamnophis genus?

[jitami]

That's the first time I've heard a warning about marcianus, James. Interesting.

[adamanteus]

I have personal experience of cannibalism in marcianus, Tami. The first time the male ate every baby that was new born from his female cage-mate (and later regurgited the whole lot), I was unable to achieve an accurate count. The second time a male ate the young of two females (24 in total) and digested the lot, even though both girls were much bigger than him. I would never have believed it was physically possible, if it had not happened to me. These days I keep all my gravid females separate, irrespective of species/sub-species because cannibalism is known to occur in this genus.

[jitami]

Sorry about the little ones... I'm rethinking my housing plans... not because I'm worried about my two marcianus mixes eating each other, but I had thought about putting them in with Sly and making an all male tank. Even though they're good sized now he's still much bigger than they are.... although he is a picky eater and I doubt he'd see them as food... hmmmmmm.... dunno.