Snake attitude? (Bad one)

[gwynhwyfar]

Some of you might remember me -- November 2007, I acquired a young garter snake who decided that coming inside into the warm was a way better idea than finding a hole in the ground and hibernating for the winter.

I still have her, but we have a recent problem -- her attitude. She used to be very calm and easy to handle. She'd curl around my wrist and in my hand and just hang out. Now she actively tries to bite me for the littlest reason. Feeding her has turned into a nightmare involving gloves to get her out because otherwise she DOES bite me and I have learned that I have a fun allergic reaction to her saliva. Lucky me.

What in the world could lead to this attitude problem and is there a way to adjust it back? I'm not enjoying this.

[Snake lover 3-25]

omg so sorry that really sucks.... um idk....... maybe something's wrong that made her change her attitude?

[guidofatherof5]

Good question. Have you identified what she is, radix, sirlalis, etc. Has anything changed with her encloser? Have you checked her for any injuries? Is she still eating the same amount? Does or did she ever just get out and cruise her enclosure? Has that changed? How's the heat? Does the attitude get better the longer you hold her?
Sorry for all the questions.
I've never had one change attitudes from docial to mean. Plenty the other way.

[gwynhwyfar]

Nothing's changed as far as her environment -- same temp, same sub, same basking rock, same dish for water. She's still eating (she's eating more, but I figure that goes along with getting bigger).

Oh, and she's sirtalis. Common eastern gartersnake.

[guidofatherof5]

Oh, and she's sirtalis. Common eastern gartersnake.

I deal only with radix. Can't make to many comments with regards to keeping sirtalis. I'm sure someone else will be able to give you some other ideas more tailored to them.
Does the attitude change the longer you hold her? Sounds to me like she doesn't want to be touched. Doubt if it's mental sound more physical. Like being held hurts. Just an observation.
Wish I could help more.

[drache]

spring fever?

[mtolypetsupply]

Did you brumate her?

[infernalis]

Cannot comment on why, I have seen this, and seen it reverse as well.

Our Puget acts like that when he's hungry.

[adamanteus]

Some of you might remember me -- .


I remember you.... didn't I accidentally ban you?:o:rolleyes:

[gwynhwyfar]

I tried to brumate her but she refused to cooperate with this plan. After awhile, I decided that if I didn't feed her, she'd starve, since she wasn't cooperating with my plans.

She acts especially nutso and homicidal around feeding time, but even a day after she's devoured a ton and a half of fish, she still wants to bite me. And has bitten me.

And, yes, Adamenteus, you did accidentally ban me! Just because I have a weird name. Harumph. :)

[jitami]

What type of fish? Any vitamin supplements? Anything else unusual other than the biting? Is she more active? Less? Sorry, wish I had answers instead of questions...

[Tori]

My oldest Eastern female used to be the gentlest thing until she hit about 4 years old. Now at 7 seven, if I open the door to her cage it becomes a race to see if she can get out before I can get the door closed. She strikes at the glass over and over to get my attention and let me know that she wants to be fed or thinks I'm too close to her cage. But I have noticed that it is usually a bluff, striking with her mouth closed. That is until I brumated her this year, then I was very grateful that I was wearing gloves when I went to move her back upstairs. She tried to bite, latched onto my hand and chewed. She is back to bluffing now, but had me very concerned for a bit there. Her mother was the meanest thing I had ever run into until I got California redsideds and the largest Eastern I had ever raised. I have no idea why she changed, I'm hoping her little sister doesn't do the same thing because I've never had a snake that loved attention or was as gentle as her.

[drache]

Tori - you're scaring me
I hope this doesn't happen with Sammy

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

My female puget Bluebie, my young female radix Radish (always biting out of hunger that one), my male concinnus and my hypo eastern are both like this. I treat them the exact same way as all my other garters- spoiled rotten. Honestly, Some garters, especially females, just tend to get really, really volatile around feeding time. Bluebie is almost impossible for me to contain when I feed her. She SLAPS her tail around and jumps about like a crazy snake!!! My hypo eastern is the most cage aggressive, I stick my hand into the tank and she instantly becomes very defensive and will mock strike for the slightest reason. I don't take it as a bad thing... I like the ones with gusto, it shows that they are robust and healthy. I don't handle any given snake more than once a week, and 90% of the garters are still very calm, but there's that handful that's crazy.... wild look in their eyes... I am not really sure much can be done since it seems to be more a personality thing than a husbandry thing, at least in my case. Bluebie lives with 3 other girls, all whom are much, MUCH calmer :)

what kind of gloves are you using? I heard if you use latex, supposedly they HATE the taste of it and it can help to teach the snake not to bite (because you taste really baddd) although I've never tried it, I can't see it hurting!

[gwynhwyfar]

I'm really hoping that she gets out of this bad mood because I don't think it's cute or funny or fun or anything else good. It's annoying.

I've been using thin leather because of the protection against her teeth. I don't enjoy carefully removing a snake who is musking me and trying to bite me again. I couldn't use latex, but maybe I'll try non-latex and see if she hates their taste.

She acts normally rather than the new fondness for biting -- I don't even have to try to touch her for her to lunge for me. Just lifting the water dish out to change the water is enough to get her to turn into scary-bitey-snake. So I don't think it's physical discomfort.

As far as feeding -- she's on rosy reds with the occasional earthworm (occasional because it's winter and finding them is less easy) rolled in vitamin powder. I've tried food of the no-longer-alive version and she's utterly uninterested in them. No chunks of fish, no pinkies, nothing except the living critters. Which she really LOVES. She'll eat 10 nice sized rosy reds at one time, the little slithery pig.

[guidofatherof5]

As far as feeding -- she's on rosy reds with the occasional earthworm (occasional because it's winter and finding them is less easy) rolled in vitamin powder. I've tried food of the no-longer-alive version and she's utterly uninterested in them. No chunks of fish, no pinkies, nothing except the living critters. Which she really LOVES. She'll eat 10 nice sized rosy reds at one time, the little slithery pig.

Rosy reds are for the most part off limits for Garters. They contain Thiaminase which causes a b1 deficiency and neurological problems. I can't say your snakes problems could be caused by thiaminase, but it's something to know. Sounds like rosy's are the main part of its diet. Check:http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,

[drache]

As far as feeding -- she's on rosy reds with the occasional earthworm (occasional because it's winter and finding them is less easy) rolled in vitamin powder. I've tried food of the no-longer-alive version and she's utterly uninterested in them. No chunks of fish, no pinkies, nothing except the living critters. Which she really LOVES. She'll eat 10 nice sized rosy reds at one time, the little slithery pig.
there is a chance that her changed behavior could be early signs of some nutritional deficiency
either way you should try to switch her away
as daunting as this may seem (and believe me, I know), you can probably do it
I managed it with two very recalcitrant garters - confirmed live fish eaters - and I have no special touch or anything
the way that worked best, even though I definitely didn't believe it would, was the method where you toss some pinkies into the water dish with the minnows, and you just give it the bare minimum of water to keep the minnows afloat - it's disgusting, and every time your snake spits out the pinky she grabbed by accident, you're gonna go "it's not working"; but she will get used to the taste of the pink just because she'll forget what fish without pinks tastes like, and two, three, four feedings down the line, she'll actually eat the damn thing, and after a while it may even be what she'll eat first, but either way, there are ways to transition on from there

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah... i'd definitely switch to pinkies..... or at the very least guppies or another "safe" fish....

[Sid]

I keep mainly Easterns and have had females with "short term" mood swings where they would show an attitude. Act aggresive for a week or two and then return to normal. But...... there was one that had been very east to handle for quite some time, then I was feeding one day and several teens came by wanting to see them eat. So, it was sure, why not. Just as my good girl starts to grab her pinkie, they all started pointing. She went nuts and never got over it.

[gwynhwyfar]

the way that worked best, even though I definitely didn't believe it would, was the method where you toss some pinkies into the water dish with the minnows, and you just give it the bare minimum of water to keep the minnows afloat - it's disgusting, and every time your snake spits out the pinky she grabbed by accident, you're gonna go "it's not working"; but she will get used to the taste of the pink just because she'll forget what fish without pinks tastes like, and two, three, four feedings down the line, she'll actually eat the damn thing, and after a while it may even be what she'll eat first, but either way, there are ways to transition on from there

I'm going to try that -- at the worse, I'll be going 'eww, yuck' about the floating pinkie. (ewwwwwwww)

Do you think it might have better luck if I reduce the number of rosy reds she's offered with the pinkie in the water? Ie: if she's more hungry, she might be more likely to actually eat the pinkie rather than spitting it back out.

I was hoping that with the vitamin powder, she'd be okay nutritionally. I know that guppies would be better for the little bratling, but there isn't a local store that carries feeder guppies. Just rosy reds and goldfish.

[drache]

But...... there was one that had been very east to handle for quite some time, then I was feeding one day and several teens came by wanting to see them eat. So, it was sure, why not. Just as my good girl starts to grab her pinkie, they all started pointing. She went nuts and never got over it.
that's got to be a bit sad for you

[count dewclaw]

Do you think it might have better luck if I reduce the number of rosy reds she's offered with the pinkie in the water?

I would put 3-4 rosy reds in with the frozen/thawed pinkies. Just enough to get the scent and motion to entice her to take a pinkie.

[guidofatherof5]

I would put 3-4 rosy reds in with the frozen/thawed pinkies. Just enough to get the scent and motion to entice her to take a pinkie.

Even less Rosy might work. Once they are in the water everything will smell like fish. Make sure you wash the pinkies off before. If you have access to guppies then you dont have to worry about the Rosies cause any problems.
Good luck.

[gwynhwyfar]

It worked!

I put the dish in her feeding cage with a couple rosy reds and a pinkie and when I came back, the bowl was completely empty.

*excited*

[gregmonsta]

Good job ;)

[keelerskiddiecare]

By any chance have you hand fed her up til the recent change in attitude?? We always hand fed Wiggles and never had trouble either and then same thing you are describing. I consulted a local person I know who has many snakes and was advised that Wiggles had associated my smell with feeding time. She suggested two things, always feed in another container and have the food in it first and wash my hands before getting Wiggles or start to use tongs. I did the first suggestion for about 2 months and that seemed to break the constant attacks on my hands. Now I have gone back to feeding Wiggles in the aquarium but I do use tongs and I do wash my hands if I have touched the food. Wiggles is back to being a nice and friendly snake who no longer lunges at me or bites every time I come near. As well I have read that female snakes are much more aggressive eaters. Hope this helps.

[Snake lover 3-25]

It worked!

I put the dish in her feeding cage with a couple rosy reds and a pinkie and when I came back, the bowl was completely empty.

*excited*

congrats! next time try to put in less fish and maybe another pinky:) before you know it she'll be on unscented pinks!:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

By any chance have you hand fed her up til the recent change in attitude?? We always hand fed Wiggles and never had trouble either and then same thing you are describing. I consulted a local person I know who has many snakes and was advised that Wiggles had associated my smell with feeding time. She suggested two things, always feed in another container and have the food in it first and wash my hands before getting Wiggles or start to use tongs. I did the first suggestion for about 2 months and that seemed to break the constant attacks on my hands. Now I have gone back to feeding Wiggles in the aquarium but I do use tongs and I do wash my hands if I have touched the food. Wiggles is back to being a nice and friendly snake who no longer lunges at me or bites every time I come near. As well I have read that female snakes are much more aggressive eaters. Hope this helps.

yeah i think that's why alot of snakes turn agressive... or seemingly so... mine tried to nip at me after feeding them in the enclosure for a month or so because i got lazy lol back to feeding outside the cage and they went right back to normal! sounds like you got some pretty good advice!:D