Indonesian Garters and Petco

[And_Lyn]

So we just got back from returning the "garter" snake to Petco. Sheesh! Attitude much?? The chick basically called us liars when we said it wasnt a garter snake. Her defense was that their supplier labels them as garters when they are sent. My boyfriend and I had to hold our tongues to avoid making a scene lol. She offered us an albino garter for the price that the keelback was. I told her we just wanted our money back. She huffed "thats fine" as she turned back to her register. UGH! Those people make me want to bash my head against a brick wall. Im SO over Petco. That was the final straw! I know more rude remarks were made...but I was too busy concentrating on keeping my composure that I dont remember what was said lol. From now on, Im not giving that place any more of my money. We will be going to the reptile shop for supplies for our gecko and snake. Again--UGH!! :mad:

[jitami]

Sorry you had to go through all of that. It really sucks cause with attitude like that you know nothing's going to change :(

[Snake lover 3-25]

that sucks..... glad you got you're money back tho....those poor snakes..... it just sucks that most of those beautiful animals won't get to live full lives:(

[guidofatherof5]

The problem with Petco is most of there employees don't want to know about the animals they sell and don't like the ones they do. I have yet to find anyone there who makes me feel they care at all.
Work your shift and collect your money. If your digging ditches or painting a house that may get you by but these animals suffer the ultimate price. I hope to rescue a Keelback, someday. I'll take on the cost. It's the least I can do.

[Aundrea]

Gosh that sucks what you guys had to go thru but im glad you got your money back. Them people UGH :mad: It is sad about them snakes tho. They sure are beautiful. Hope some good people here in the group can get their hands on some and breed them :D

[misskris]

I'm sorry. However big a pain in the keester they were about it, you did the right thing. Hopefully they'll get a clue..

[And_Lyn]

I'm sorry. However big a pain in the keester they were about it, you did the right thing. Hopefully they'll get a clue..

Hopefully...but I doubt it. The broad was NOT receptive to the fact that its a keelback. It seemed like her burly existence depended on it being a garter :rolleyes:

[misskris]

Hopefully...but I doubt it. The broad was NOT receptive to the fact that its a keelback. It seemed like her burly existence depended on it being a garter :rolleyes:


LOL... Write a letter to corprate. Seriously. Our Petco has a dog trainer, I'm seriously trying to get fired :)

Go back and get pictures of the snakes infront of the enclosures, then email the pics along with keelback photo's to the corperate offices.

Never argue with an idiot, the people watching can't tell the difference.

[infernalis]

I can say this much, our local Petco HAD (He left) a decent herp fan working there.

I really enjoyed speaking with him. He even got excited when I told him I had an Infernalis (I was excited that he even knew what an Infernalis was)

I used to get the poor guy in trouble, he'd follow me around the store talking about reptiles until I left.

The store suffered a major loss when he moved on:(

We stay clear of the place, except when I pop in to look for a keelback.

[Snake lover 3-25]

do they sell garters at your petco wayne? i've never seen one in any of the several petcos i've visited..........:confused:

[infernalis]

Never seen one here either...

We used to buy our aspen, hides and such there.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I haven't been to the local petco in months... I keep meaning to get over there and see if there are any. And let me tell you, I will be taking pictures, dragging an employee over there, explain very clearly what they are doing is against the law and why I care so darned much, and getting corporate's info the moment I find one!!!

[reptile3]

my petco here is ok, some of the ppl don't know what they are selling or doing. But I go when this one girl works there, she knows her stuff.

As for Petsmart, they are always out of things I need. I love the one here the one guy who works in the small animals, reptiles,birds, knows his stuff too.

I applied at Petsmart, they never returned my calls nor said anything about my application. It's their loss!!:(


I am sorry the employee was rude... my petco, the ppl there are rather friendly!! Maybe complain about the employee, for her being rude.
You are the customer, you are always RIGHT... well that is what they say!!

[Seere121]

There used to be a herp guy at my local petco too, till he moved on and they reduced their herp section. I still stop in every once in a while hoping to find a keelback but they haven't had "garters" for a while. I really stopped going there once I got my bulk shipment of frozen mice.

[infernalis]

I really stopped going there once I got my bulk shipment of frozen mice.


Me too, $1.75 for one frozen pinky is a bit steep especially when I go through a few hundred of them a month:eek:

[adamanteus]

It's a shame you had to return the snake, Lynsey. You'll soon find yourself a 'real' Garter Snake.

[Lori P]

Lyn, I would absolutely definitely follow up with a letter to corporate. You have pics of the keelback. Do you still have your receipt? Send copies of both and explain the problem. Also explain the lack of customer service or care for the animal. My Petco does not carry these, either, or I'd be in there with my camera too.

[And_Lyn]

We will be sending a letter to corporate. Unforortunately when we took the snake back I didnt get the receipt back. When she asked if I wanted it I just said no and walked out. Dang. I guess they could print us out a new one. I'm also thinking about going back and taking a pic of the tank with garter label. It's going to have to wait until this weekend but we will do it

Thanks everyone for your advice and concern

[infernalis]

Just be careful that the camera don't get you into trouble.

[And_Lyn]

Just be careful that the camera don't get you into trouble.


Im gonna use my cell phone :D

[prattypus]

I haven't been to the local petco in months... I keep meaning to get over there and see if there are any. And let me tell you, I will be taking pictures, dragging an employee over there, explain very clearly what they are doing is against the law and why I care so darned much, and getting corporate's info the moment I find one!!!
I understand being in a huff- but I am a wee bit lost. What are they doing that is illegal? Garter isn't an exclusive term, so I don't think that is against the law.:rolleyes:

[And_Lyn]

I understand being in a huff- but I am a wee bit lost. What are they doing that is illegal? Garter isn't an exclusive term, so I don't think that is against the law.:rolleyes:


False advertising I guess you could call it

[guidofatherof5]

Don't worry, they will have all there bases covered. Since, they are commonly called an Indonesian GARTER SNAKES.
I'm sure the driving force behind the sale of these animals is the cheap price they get them for. They probably make a good profit.

[ssssnakeluvr]

problem with a lot of them is they buy cheap wild caught snakes for real low prices, then jack up the price, all they care about is profit....not selling people quality animals. sometimes it's better to go to small privately owned pet stores....may pay a little more, but could get much better animals in the long run!!!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I understand being in a huff- but I am a wee bit lost. What are they doing that is illegal? Garter isn't an exclusive term, so I don't think that is against the law.:rolleyes:

false advertisement! these are being represented as garter snakes, and some petco's even lable them as canadian garters, at that. these are not garter snakes, period!:mad:

If I am not mistaken I also read from someone's thread on this forum that they even had a scientific name with the label of the snake... it would take me far too much time to find it now... maybe someone else would remember seeing that too?

[MasSalvaje]

I apologize for pulling this thread up again. I am new on the site so please let me know if I am missing anything. Why did you have to return him in the first place? I realize it was misrepresented but the care is very much similar to a N.A. Garter. Somebody gave me this guy as a "Canadian Garter" and he has turned out to be one of my favorites in my, all be it small, collection. Some of you may have made suggestions to my thread on another forum about him, but I have now had him 3 months and he is eating pinkies as well as any of my Garters. I am really looking forward to getting another one when one becomes available.

*Photobucket was down at posting so I will get pics ASAP!

-Thomas Wilder

[GarterNovice]

They had one on the label at the petco that sold us a keelback. They labeled him as a canadian garter. Of course I can't remember the exact species they said it was now.

[misskris]

I know our Petco has a common name, and the scientific name for most species they carry. For example, the label on Simones enclosure said Common Garter and under that is listed Thamnophis Sirtalis. If they have the wrong scientific name it IS false advertising.

Keelbacks aren't Thamnophis are they?

[MasSalvaje]

Striped Keelbacks are not Thamnophis, ironicly they are not really Keelbacks either (Rhabdophis), they are Xenochrophis vittatus.

I am new on the forum so maybe somebody could help me out, why did you return it in the first place. I realize it was a misrepresentation but these guys are amazing! Care is very similar to that of Thamnophis. I was given one a few months ago as a "Canadian Garter," at the time I had no idea what it really was just that it wasn't Thamnophis. Since that time it is slamming down pinkies and has become one of my favorites in my colection.

As far as the false advertising law goes, the only thing they have to do in the case of an item or animal being misrepresented is return it. There is no legal issue on the matter, they will not be charged with fraud or even get a visit from the local authorities. The only way that would possibly happen is if they were selling an illegal species under a legal species name.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn48/Massalvaje/DSCN6194.jpg

Like I said these guys are awesome and I am looking forward to picking up a few more!
-Thomas

[prattypus]

ah, I get it now. Sorry for raising a stink. I've seen them in there as Ribbons. I don't remember seeing the scientific name or not.

[cthulhu77]

I like keelbacks quite a lot, I was bummed when they were outlawed in Arizona.
As far as stores go, it really depends on the person. Some Petco's have decent staff, some don't...and that varies day by day.

[drache]

As far as stores go, it really depends on the person. Some Petco's have decent staff, some don't...and that varies day by day.
that is so true - some of them do have employees that got those jobs because they're into the critters and know something about them

[MasSalvaje]

I like keelbacks quite a lot, I was bummed when they were outlawed in Arizona.

Are you sure these guys are outlawed in AZ? I know true keelbacks are outlawed here in UT and probably many other states but in the proclamation it only states that members of the Rhabdophis family are prohibited. It says nothing of Xenochrophis, which has many common names like the Striped Keelback or the Indonesian Garter.


Utah Division of Wildlife Resources (http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2007_amphibians_reptiles/)

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

Thomas,

If I neglected to welcome you. I'm doing it now. Glad you're here. This forum is filled with knowledgeable and caring people.

[Snake lover 3-25]

I am new on the forum so maybe somebody could help me out, why did you return it in the first place.

wow you have one that's still alive??!! that's surprizing! almost every member on the forum that has gotten one of these has had them die of parisites..... and some have had the parasites spread to others in their collection.... that is why she returned it.... no need to get attached to something that has a 99% chance of dying.... or risk killing their entire collection... i'd get yours checked for parasites asap.... they still may be present. Good luck!:)

ps welcome to the forum!:D

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Thomas :)

[olive oil]

Hey Thomas, good luck with your keelback.
Keep us posted with his progress!

[MasSalvaje]

wow you have one that's still alive??!! that's surprizing! almost every member on the forum that has gotten one of these has had them die of parisites..... and some have had the parasites spread to others in their collection.... that is why she returned it.... no need to get attached to something that has a 99% chance of dying.... or risk killing their entire collection... i'd get yours checked for parasites asap.... they still may be present. Good luck!:)

ps welcome to the forum!:D

Mine is alive and well! I did take in some fecal samples and they all came back negative, it is free of mites and ticks, and I quarantined him for about a month with no signs of trouble, I guess I lucked out (knock on wood). It is a shame that so few live they are really are amazing little guys! I had zero problems switching him to pinkies, loves to be held, and is a lot less nervous then most of my Garters.

Thank you all for the welcome!

-Thomas

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow man are you lucky!!!! good luck with him you have no idea how many people wish thay were in your shoes!

[And_Lyn]

I returned it because I wanted a captive bred garter...not a wild caught keelback

[Stefan-A]

Mine is alive and well! I did take in some fecal samples and they all came back negative, it is free of mites and ticks, and I quarantined him for about a month with no signs of trouble, I guess I lucked out (knock on wood). It is a shame that so few live they are really are amazing little guys! I had zero problems switching him to pinkies, loves to be held, and is a lot less nervous then most of my Garters.

Thank you all for the welcome!

-Thomas
I'm glad to hear that. :) But like you said, it does seem like you've been lucky. So far it's been the rule rather than the exception that these snakes die soon after being bought.

[reptile3]

We will be sending a letter to corporate. Unforortunately when we took the snake back I didnt get the receipt back. When she asked if I wanted it I just said no and walked out. Dang. I guess they could print us out a new one. I'm also thinking about going back and taking a pic of the tank with garter label. It's going to have to wait until this weekend but we will do it

Thanks everyone for your advice and concern

I am sure Petco, can look up receipts, I may be wrong!

[adamanteus]

I returned it because I wanted a captive bred garter...not a wild caught keelback

Sounds like a pretty good motive to me!:)

[And_Lyn]

Sounds like a pretty good motive to me!:)


Thanks...I thought so too :)

-Lyndsey

[MasSalvaje]

Thanks...I thought so too :)

-Lyndsey

Me too I was just curious what the situation was. I am no Petco lover that is for sure. I was in there the other day reeming a guy who told a kid to feed his baby cornsnake crickets and millworms.

I hope you found what you were looking for!

-Thomas

[And_Lyn]

Me too I was just curious what the situation was. I am no Petco lover that is for sure. I was in there the other day reeming a guy who told a kid to feed his baby cornsnake crickets and millworms.

I hope you found what you were looking for!

-Thomas


The situation was that my bf bought an "eastern garter snake" at Petco that was actually a striped keelback. We were told my the awesome people here that keelbacks are wild caught and are full of parasites. We have recently gotten addicted to garters and finally decided to get one. That'll teach us for getting a reptile at Petco :rolleyes:

And yes, we've found what we were looking for. We are expecting a little female from Wayne in about a week :)

[mtolypetsupply]

I know there's been quite a row on here lately about the mislabled "Indonesian Garter". Please don't all grab pitchforks and torches and hunt me down for this.

Someone was saying that they'd actually LIKE to get one of these, so here's a link from kingsnake.com:

Indonesian Garter Snakes: Pair for $100 (http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=665484)

Don't know if they're still available.

:)

[infernalis]

Thanks Stephi. I may have suitable arrangements but I'll look into this.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I was Pm'ed about these guys from a few different people, and I do appreciate that a lot. However... they want way too much money for them... they are definitely wild caught and most likely fresh imports... I can get that same quality of animal (poor but its all that is available) for a fraction of that price in person at a show. I could spend $45 and get a nice trio at a show (too bad I did not a few shows back when I had the opportunity) and pick out the biggest healthiest looking snakes, which to me is really all I can do simply because there will be vet bills to treat for parasites following the initial cost.

[mtolypetsupply]

Speaking of shows, will I see you at Hamburg, Shannon???

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

you most certainly will!!!! Boyfriend and I will be there for a good bit of the day! I am so excited, I am picking up a young adult infernalis from Rhea!!!!! WOO HOO!!!!

[mtolypetsupply]

Rhea? Are you coming? I might actually get to meet you this time!?!?!

Shannon, congrats on your acquisition! And, I must ask, what are you bringing??? ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Rhea? Are you coming? I might actually get to meet you this time!?!?!

Shannon, congrats on your acquisition! And, I must ask, what are you bringing??? ;)

unfortunately, she's not coming, she's sending it along with a friend of hers... but a for me, I am bringing my female rednecked keelback to show off to a few friends at the show, got a lot of people who want to see that snake in person, and I will be unfortunately parting with a few not-garters, including my remaining graybanded kingsnake, my hybrid kings, a couple balls and maybe one or two others. gotta make room for the growing garter collection!

I am also CONSIDERING, and this is a very BIG maybe, selling my rack system and filling that space with an actual caging stack in it's place. If I do that I'll put up a small shelf with a few tubs/10 gallon tanks for housing babies when they arrive. The rack is practical, but as I gravitate more to just garters, not so much.... the garters hated the rack system and I hated them in it....I just enjoy large, showy enclosures for them so much more!!! Because they use every ounce of vertical and horizontal space I give them!

[drache]

Mikhaila has an important day that day - next time probably

as to the xenochrophis - Shannon is right
the likelihood that these are cb is pretty much zilch, which means that these are no better than the nine buck ones from the florida importer

[adamanteus]

Some of you may recall that I e-mailed Petco regarding their labelling of Xenochrophis vittatus. I received this response today......


Dear James,

Thank you for notifying us of your concern of our stores selling the Keelback Snake.

I have forwarded your concerns onto our Veteranarian Department. They will look into the proper classification of this species and make any necessary changes at our store levels. We appreciate your feedback.

Please know that we care about our customers and what they think of us. By letting us know when we fall short of your expectations, we have the opportunity to address your concerns and to be better prepared to meet your expectations in the future. If we can be any further assistance, please feel free to reply to this email or call PETCO Customer Relations directly at 1-888-824-7257. Thank you again for contacting PETCO.

Sincerely,
Matthew B.
Customer Relations Coordinator

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow well at least he replied! maybe he will actually do something!:)

[And_Lyn]

i was in customer service for a little while, (not for petco) this looks like an automatic response... they just click it, that response pops up and they fill in a few blanks... i know for a fact that this guy only typed "james" and "keelback snake" ...stay on them james, a customer service reps best move is to "acknowledge" the problem, then wait for you (the customer) to forget about it. but hey, you got a response and thats a really good start... i found out their corporate office is in La Jolla California

-Andrew

[And_Lyn]

wow well at least he replied! maybe he will actually do something!:)


That would be rad...but I doubt it

-Lyndsey

[And_Lyn]

Babe get off the forum at work!!!

LOL

-Lyndsey

[adamanteus]

The automatic response came through a couple of days ago. I think this one is a genuine reply, just with the standard 'we care about our customers' paragraph thrown in.
We'll see. I've asked them to let me know what they decide to do.

[And_Lyn]

The automatic response came through a couple of days ago. I think this one is a genuine reply, just with the standard 'we care about our customers' paragraph thrown in.
We'll see. I've asked them to let me know what they decide to do.

We live pretty close to where their corporate office is located. We could make some signs and go picket them. We have no lives so it'll give us something to do :D


-Lyndsey

[And_Lyn]

yea, they have the "we got your email" auto one... then they have a full arsenal of template emails already typed out. they just click on the one that pertains to the complaint at hand and shoot that out. youd have to see it in order to really despise a customer service person... i hated that job

-andrew

[adamanteus]

We live pretty close to where their corporate office is located. We could make some signs and go picket them. We have no lives so it'll give us something to do :D

Maybe a bit drastic, as they've only just been made aware, and have promised to inverstigate.:D
However, I have sent them a link to this (and a couple of other) thread... so they can read for themselves the strength of your feelings on this.

[And_Lyn]

Maybe a bit drastic, as they've only just been made aware, and have promised to inverstigate.:D


Darn. I was looking forward to having something to do this weekend :(

-Lyndsey

[adamanteus]

I don't think they'll ignore us. It would be very poor business. They are aware that we have over 7,000 members, most of them in the US.
7,000 American reptile enthusiasts all bad-mouthing Petco at the same time is not something to be taken lightly, by any business.

[drache]

good call, James
business isn't that great over here at the moment - just in general

[Stefan-A]

Some of you may recall that I e-mailed Petco regarding their labelling of Xenochrophis vittatus. I received this response today......


Dear James,

Thank you for notifying us of your concern of our stores selling the Keelback Snake.

I have forwarded your concerns onto our Veteranarian Department. They will look into the proper classification of this species and make any necessary changes at our store levels. We appreciate your feedback.

Please know that we care about our customers and what they think of us. By letting us know when we fall short of your expectations, we have the opportunity to address your concerns and to be better prepared to meet your expectations in the future. If we can be any further assistance, please feel free to reply to this email or call PETCO Customer Relations directly at 1-888-824-7257. Thank you again for contacting PETCO.

Sincerely,
Matthew B.
Customer Relations Coordinator
The bastards never replied to me.

[drache]

The bastards never replied to me.
you did it too?

[Stefan-A]

you did it too?
Yeah, I sent a nearly identical email a bit before James sent his.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I too, sent an email stating that I was also a part of this forum and very concerned with what was happening. I did receive a response, a genuine typed one, here it is! I totally, and utterly, did not expect a response back!

Dear Shannon, Thank you for contacting PETCO regarding the snakes that we currently sell in our stores. I am surprised to hear about the information contained in your correspondence. We have licensed exotic and general veterinarians that visit the stores on a daily basis and this is the first piece of information I have heard regarding the Garter snakes actually being Striped Keelbacks.
I will be referring this information over to my manager regarding this matter to find further information about this, however, I truly appreciate you taking the time out of your day to inform us of this so that we may do further research with our vendors as well.
Thank you again for contacting PETCO, Shannon. If you have any questions or if we can be of assistance to you in the future, please feel free to contact us here at the Customer Relations Department at (888) 824-7257 or by responding to this message.
Have a great day.
Sincerely, Monique V.
Customer Relations Coordinator

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow well apparently some customer service people are more polite than others!!!!

[infernalis]

Shannon, Why not post the email addy on here..

If they get a stack of letters all saying the same thing, well you get the point.

[GarterNovice]

I would love to express my sentiments regarding their snake selling practices in a polite and tactful manner:) Only way to be heard is by having enough voices saying the same thing:)

[infernalis]

And while we are at it, demand that they write back to Stefan.

[GarterNovice]

I second that motion:)

[Stefan-A]

Yay! I got a response! A short one, but it's still a reply.


Dear Stefan, Thank you for contacting PETCO regarding how we have categorized our Garter Snakes.
I have forwarded your comments to our Upper Management team responsible for purchasing these snakes. We will look into how these snakes are labeled and make any necessary changes. We appreciate your feedback.
Thank you for your inquiry. Please contact us again if you need any further assistance.
Sincerely, Matthew B.
Customer Relations Coordinator

At PETCO, Animals Always Come First... Our People Make it Happen!

[gregmonsta]

:rolleyes: oh well ....

Dear Greg,
Thank you for contacting PETCO regarding the snakes that we currently sell in our stores. I am surprised to hear about the information contained in your correspondence. We have licensed exotic and general veterinarians that visit the stores on a daily basis and this is the first piece of information I have heard regarding the Garter snakes actually being Striped Keelbacks.
I will be referring this information to my manager to gather further information about this. I can assure you that we are taking this issue very seriously, and we truly appreciate you taking the time out of your day to inform us of this so that we may do further research with our vendors as well.
Thank you again for contacting PETCO, Greg. If you have any questions or if we can be of assistance to you in the future, please feel free to contact us here at the Customer Relations Department at (888) 824-7257 or by responding to this message.
Sincerely,

Chris M.
Customer Relations Coordinator

[gregmonsta]

Infact .... it's almost the same response as Shannon had .... I might raise that issue too lol .... very impersonal and proves that it certainly WASN'T the first notification of their mislabellings!!!

[reptile3]

Hey Greg, you got a reply. Sometimes they don't reply. You never know, more ppl writing them about the issue, they will really look into it!:)

[GarterNovice]

It's about time they replied to you. That seems like less of an automatic response than the ones that everyone else got. Hopefully they'll actually do something about it.

[Aundrea]

At PETCO, Animals Always Come First... Our People Make it Happen!

Hmmmm wish they would stick to that line

[cthulhu77]

Yep, it seems like a lot of work to make a mountain out of this particular molehill...

I've been to dedicated reptile stores that have mislabeled animals.

[infernalis]

Did I read that correctly? Did Stefan just say "Yay";):D

[Stefan-A]

Did I read that correctly? Did Stefan just say "Yay";):D
An ironic "Yay".

[And_Lyn]

Ty Dillon... Calzoo@aol.com

Calzoo is the reptile supplier for Petco... i had a few emails back and forth with this guy regarding the keelback issue... he didnt really care. on their website they boast about keeping Zoo Med in business in its early years and so on... the refer to their snakes as "Seasonal Sku #'s" in one email i got from him... keelbacks are just a filler until the garters breed i guess.

-andrew

[And_Lyn]

does anyone have the email addresses for them? or is it just a contact sheet on their page?

-andrew

[And_Lyn]

A:
I went into a petco yesterday and bought, what I thought to be a garter snake.
Instead, I was sold a striped keelback under the name garter…
Im very disappointed in this because the associate I spoke with said this would be entirely your fault for mis shipping them. Why do you sell them to petco as garters?

TY:
The garter sku # is a generic sku for any thamnophis species snake, pending what is in season. Thanks
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

A:
Its actually a keelback which is a xenochrophis and not thamnophis...

TY:
Not sure what you mean, our reply states any garter OR thamnophis species. It seems you have indonesian garter, care for all is the same.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

A:
Are these wild caught and then distributed? Do I have to worry about parasites? Your email clearly states "Any Thamnophis species snake" i did not see an "or".

TY:
Yes field collected, never seen a need to worm garters
They grow about 2ft max, will fill out a little more, its called Indonesian garter snake Xenochrophis vittata, one interesting feature sometimes after handling you can smell a harmless ,mild skunk type odor

A:
They aren’t garters though, the ones you sell to petco that you call garters are keelbacks.


...and that was the last i heard of him... what do you think?
they first sentence of his last reply kinda got me... no need to worm them huh?
then he ends it by trying to sell it to me with information on the keelback.


-Andrew

[Stefan-A]

does anyone have the email addresses for them? or is it just a contact sheet on their page?

-andrew
They have several feedback forms on their page, depending on why you want to contact them. I just picked the one that required me to fill in the least amount of information.

[adamanteus]

Do we think we should back off a bit, to give them a chance to react? Save some ammunition?

[Stefan-A]

That might be a good idea, I think we got the message across.

[infernalis]

Sometimes it really seems that the money is more important than anything else.

They blew you off, in a polite way.

[And_Lyn]

yea, dont know if it helped at all going directly to the supplier but i gave it a shot

-Andrew

[infernalis]

If nothing else this group did start some ripples in the water....:D

[guidofatherof5]

Andrew & Lyndsey,

Thanks for taking the time to contact them and posting the result.
Glad you join the forum.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a good idea.

[reptile3]

Lyndsey & Andrew, thank you for taking time to get ahold of the supplier. I think with everyone contacting them in some way, *Maybe* they will get the idea... we aren't going to stop.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Yep, it seems like a lot of work to make a mountain out of this particular molehill...

I've been to dedicated reptile stores that have mislabeled animals.

from a professional point of view, this is not a molehill, especially to a company who could have a lawsuit on their hands if this mildly venomous snake bites one of their customers and they react negatively to it. It hapened with the lyre snake, it's happened with other keelbacks, it can easily happen here. And if it's then found that it could have been prevented if things had been researched properly, things can really get out of control. The point that needs to get across to them, is that it's not okay for them to be selling them as one thing, when they are a totally different animal. These are NOT generic anyone-can-care-for-one cornsnakes and kingsnakes that are normally sold at pet stores. They sure as hell should not be available to the unknowing general public, especially not labeled as the innocent garter snakes that everyone remembers picking up out of their yard as a kid. Now that they have been informed, we will have to see if they do anything. Now, there is NO excuse for them to continue to be negligent about the types of snakes they sell. If I see a reptile mislabled at the local rep shop, I tell them, and usually they check it out and change the label. Animals need to be properly labeled. In my opinion, much like the way the law operates, there is no excuse for ignorance. Instead of taking their suppliers (obviously terrible) word for granted, stores need to step up to the plate and do their share of homework as well. It's much like how often I get customers who keep their turtle in a plastic container full of water and think that's acceptable. When I tell them different, and they try to pull the "well no one told me that" card, I simply say when you acquire an animal, whether it be a dog, turtle, or a fish, YOU become responsible for an its care and it is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are giving it the best possible care. That means you have to do a little homework... but if you get a dog, you would find out how to care for one prior, right? It should not be any different just because the animal is a goldfish or an anole instead of a puppy or kitty. I don't care if you won it at a carnival, it still isn't disposable, and you need to either read a book and start giving it the proper care it needs or find it a new home. I do not care if that will make your 3 year old cry. (sorry if I sound mean, but I put the health of the animals first because not enough people do) and neither are the keelbacked snakes being shoved off as garters, which clearly, to petco's supplier, are all the same.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Are you sure these guys are outlawed in AZ? I know true keelbacks are outlawed here in UT and probably many other states but in the proclamation it only states that members of the Rhabdophis family are prohibited. It says nothing of Xenochrophis, which has many common names like the Striped Keelback or the Indonesian Garter.


Utah Division of Wildlife Resources (http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2007_amphibians_reptiles/)

-Thomas

that's very true. They are not a member of rhabdophis, which are referred to as true keelbacked snakes. Striped keelbacks need a real name of their own already! :mad:

[adamanteus]

Striped keelbacks need a real name of their own already! :mad:

They have one! Xenochrophis vittatus!:) Because.....


"That's just one of the problems with using 'common' names.. they don't mean a thing, and you certainly can't enforce 'naming rules'. Keelbacks (Xenochrophis) are commonly known as Indonesian Garter Snakes, there is an entire genus of dangerously venomous Elapids in South Africa (Elapsoidea), which are commonly known as Garter Snakes. Then there is the North American natricine genus (Thamnophis), commonly known as Garter Snakes.
Which is right, which is wrong?"

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

They have one! Xenochrophis vittatus!:) Because.....


"That's just one of the problems with using 'common' names.. they don't mean a thing, and you certainly can't enforce 'naming rules'. Keelbacks (Xenochrophis) are commonly known as Indonesian Garter Snakes, there is an entire genus of dangerously venomous Elapids in South Africa (Elapsoidea), which are commonly known as Garter Snakes. Then there is the North American natricine genus (Thamnophis), commonly known as Garter Snakes.
Which is right, which is wrong?"


honestly, what I should have said, was... they need a real common name of their own!

when speaking of my snakes, i generally refer to them by latin, and I would do it 24/7 except for the fact that I know not everyone on the forums, EPSECIALLY over at reptastic, is fluent in latin names. You should see me snap my fingers when I am talking to someone about my garters and am trying to spit out the common name, because the latin one just rolled off my tongue and that's the only one I really think about in my head!! Meanwhile, the other person is still trying to figure out what language I was just speaking! :rolleyes: Often when I'm at work and I start spouting off the latin names of.... oh, just about anything and everything... from xenopeltis unicolor to betta splendens to ophiophagus hanna, I get called nerd, loser, bookworm... etc :o:rolleyes:

[adamanteus]

honestly, what I should have said, was... they need a real common name of their own!

There is the trouble.. they have one, several actually, one of which is Garter Snake!:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

which is why it kinda sucks that more people won't embrace the use of latin!

[Stefan-A]

when speaking of my snakes, i generally refer to them by latin, and I would do it 24/7 except for the fact that I know not everyone on the forums, EPSECIALLY over at reptastic, is fluent in latin names.
Scientific names. :D Usually it's latinized Greek.


Often when I'm at work and I start spouting off the latin names of.... oh, just about anything and everything... from xenopeltis unicolor to betta splendens to ophiophagus hanna, I get called nerd, loser, bookworm... etc :o:rolleyes:
Start calling those people "ignorant pigs". Anyone who shows that kind of contempt for knowledge deserves to get torn a new one.

[adamanteus]

Here's (part of) my argument against using common names....
Ever hear of a Ball Python? No, it's a Royal Python, Python regius. How about a Blood Python? No, Short Python, Python curtus. Notice how the alternative common names more closely match the scientific name? You see, this is not an American forum, it's international.... common names mean nothing. Many common names used in North America have been simply made up by the pet trade.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Scientific names. :D Usually it's latinized Greek.


Start calling those people "ignorant pigs". Anyone who shows that kind of contempt for knowledge deserves to get torn a new one.
okay on the first comment your right :p


on the second one, you're kind of right, except that they aren't really seriously trying to insult me, just playing with me :D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Here's (part of) my argument against using common names....
Ever hear of a Ball Python? No, it's a Royal Python, Python regius. How about a Blood Python? No, Short Python, Python curtus. Notice how the alternative common names more closely match the scientific name? You see, this is not an American forum, it's international.... common names mean nothing. Many common names used in North America have been simply made up by the pet trade.


ever heard of the dreaded spotted adder?!?!

that's L.t. triangulum

[adamanteus]

ever heard of the dreaded spotted adder?!?!

that's L.t. triangulum

My point exactly! Let's all try to use the scientific name whenever we can..... remember, to half our membership Thamnophis' common name is Kousebandslangen!:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

My point exactly! Let's all try to use the scientific name whenever we can..... remember, to half our membership Thamnophis' common name is Kousebandslangen!:)

I'm going to walk around hamburg next saturday asking for kousebandslangens!!!!

[infernalis]

Anyone who shows that kind of contempt for knowledge deserves to get torn a new one.

that's about 97.83 percent of the population of planet earth.

However I consider being called a geek or nerd a compliment:D

[reptile3]

Here's (part of) my argument against using common names....
Ever hear of a Ball Python? No, it's a Royal Python, Python regius. How about a Blood Python? No, Short Python, Python curtus. Notice how the alternative common names more closely match the scientific name? You see, this is not an American forum, it's international.... common names mean nothing. Many common names used in North America have been simply made up by the pet trade.

James, I will remember this... I will make sure I use the scientific names for now on!!:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

as to the xenochrophis - Shannon is right
the likelihood that these are cb is pretty much zilch, which means that these are no better than the nine buck ones from the florida importer


thank you, that is what I was trying to say. unforunately, I have some disorder that prevents me from being able to state my point in a single sentence or two!!!

[And_Lyn]

That works for us

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

surprise surprise! the same exact, word for word response I got!!!

That look really good on petco's part!

:mad:

especially the "first" part!

[jitami]

However I consider being called a geek or nerd a compliment:D

Just don't call him a dork :p:D:p

[MasSalvaje]

from a professional point of view, this is not a molehill, especially to a company who could have a lawsuit on their hands if this mildly venomous snake bites one of their customers and they react negatively to it. It hapened with the lyre snake, it's happened with other keelbacks, it can easily happen here. And if it's then found that it could have been prevented if things had been researched properly, things can really get out of control. The point that needs to get across to them, is that it's not okay for them to be selling them as one thing, when they are a totally different animal. These are NOT generic anyone-can-care-for-one cornsnakes and kingsnakes that are normally sold at pet stores. They sure as hell should not be available to the unknowing general public, especially not labeled as the innocent garter snakes that everyone remembers picking up out of their yard as a kid.

I am completely with you on your mis-representation rant, but I have to disagree with you about the Venom aspect of your arguement. In the reports that I have read Xenochrophis venom is no more dangerous than Thamnophis venom which is known to cause swelling and irritation around the the affected area.

-Thomas

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am completely with you on your mis-representation rant, but I have to disagree with you about the Venom aspect of your arguement. In the reports that I have read Xenochrophis venom is no more dangerous than Thamnophis venom which is known to cause swelling and irritation around the the affected area.

-Thomas


the venom itself is mild to negligible in both, 99% of people will have no reaction but I was referring to the one person who has a serious, allergic reaction to it and dies. Lyre snakes have a "harmless" venom just like thamnophis and xenochrophis, but a small boy was keeping one as a pet in cali, and it bit him and he ended up going into shock and dying. Simlilar things have happened with members of Rhabdophis. Rhabdophis were once all considered "no more dangerous" than garters". Things happen, and sadly usually they are the only way we can REALLY learn about these creatures. It can, and does happen, and if it happens with one of these snakes, and they are misrepresented on top of it, that can mean BIG problems. Prevention, education, and respect for the species is key. Little detail is known about xenochrophis...That is the aspect that really concerns me, and there's no arguing that it's not something to really consider.

[Loren]

I sent an email to Petco the other night, about the topic of this thread, and actually got a reply- saying they had refered the matter to the proper people. Not expecting it to help, but thought it couldnt hurt.
I did mention "mildly venomous" and "potential lawsuit". Figured that might catch some attention.

Shannon, do you have any info or links on the lyre bite? Thats the first I've heard of it.

[Loren]

I posted this in another thread already- but I sent Petco an email about this also. Mentioned "mildly venomous" and "potential lawsuit." I did get a reply saying it had been refered to the proper people. Wont help, but worth a shot.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

try googling it maybe? i've read it a few places from sources I could not possibly remember or find the link to (in a reasonable amount of time)

it's supposed to be the reason that they outlawed the keeping of lyre snakes in california.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

was able to pull up this link from google really quickly before I head to bed, it simply mentions that some have had unpleasant reactions...
Trimorphodon biscutatus lyrophanes - Baja California Lyresnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.b.lyrophanes.html)

[MasSalvaje]

the venom itself is mild to negligible in both, 99% of people will have no reaction but I was referring to the one person who has a serious, allergic reaction to it and dies. Lyre snakes have a "harmless" venom just like thamnophis and xenochrophis, but a small boy was keeping one as a pet in cali, and it bit him and he ended up going into shock and dying. Simlilar things have happened with members of Rhabdophis. Rhabdophis were once all considered "no more dangerous" than garters". Things happen, and sadly usually they are the only way we can REALLY learn about these creatures. It can, and does happen, and if it happens with one of these snakes, and they are misrepresented on top of it, that can mean BIG problems. Prevention, education, and respect for the species is key. Little detail is known about xenochrophis...That is the aspect that really concerns me, and there's no arguing that it's not something to really consider.

You are very correct! But shouldn't we then put the same detail in getting people educated about Thamnophis? Maybe I am just paranoid but if we bring attention to a snake that causes it to be banned, like Xenocrophis, because of its mild venom are we not just opening the door for a ban on Thamnophis in general when they find out they have a very similar venom?

Just a thought, I could be way off.

-Thomas

[infernalis]

Thomas, I think you misunderstand.

No one wants them banned. Just labeled and sold correctly, labeled responsibly.

They are confusing the general public in many ways. That's all.

[Stefan-A]

that's about 97.83 percent of the population of planet earth.
About.


However I consider being called a geek or nerd a compliment:D
I would, too, if it didn't make it painfully obvious that the other person isn't one.

[Stefan-A]

Merged the Petco threads.

[MasSalvaje]

Thomas, I think you misunderstand.

No one wants them banned. Just labeled and sold correctly, labeled responsibly.

They are confusing the general public in many ways. That's all.

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.

As I have stated before I am very much against having something labeled incorrectly. It promotes improper husbandry issues and can be very harmful to the new keeper and more importantly the snake. Keep sending your emails, but be careful that one of our own arguements does not come back to bite us.

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.
I don't think it's a very good strategy to just attempt to avoid getting species banned for as long as possible. If you're lucky, you'll be allowed to keep Tamagotchis when they're finished banning every type of pet that anyone wants banned. You can't win by letting the fire burn itself out.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I understand that no one here wants them banned, but if we start bringing up terms like mildly venomous, that is just adding fuel to an all ready growing fire in some cases. Someone may see that as a reason to ban them. Lyre snakes and true Keelbacks are already banned in my state, for simply the same reason we are mentioning here.

As I have stated before I am very much against having something labeled incorrectly. It promotes improper husbandry issues and can be very harmful to the new keeper and more importantly the snake. Keep sending your emails, but be careful that one of our own arguements does not come back to bite us.

-Thomas

your concern and heart is in the right place, however, there is no point to conceal information. That's how accidents happen, if a person knows to handle with relative caution, then they are much less likely to get bit. Mildly venomous is the correct term. To "hide" that fact, or neglect to acknowledge it, would be ignorant on my part, and misleading to others. When people ask me if a snake like that is "harmless" I respond, "99% of the time, yes. But they should still be handled with caution and awareness." If my use of mildly venomous concerns them, they can research that term and realize that it's not a major threat. They sell hognoses and they already know that they are rear fanged and mildly venomous. I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

[And_Lyn]

your concern and heart is in the right place, however, there is no point to conceal information. That's how accidents happen, if a person knows to handle with relative caution, then they are much less likely to get bit. Mildly venomous is the correct term. To "hide" that fact, or neglect to acknowledge it, would be ignorant on my part, and misleading to others. When people ask me if a snake like that is "harmless" I respond, "99% of the time, yes. But they should still be handled with caution and awareness." If my use of mildly venomous concerns them, they can research that term and realize that it's not a major threat. They sell hognoses and they already know that they are rear fanged and mildly venomous. I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

Preach it to me, sista!

I like reading your posts. They are always well thought out and intelligent

[Loren]

it's supposed to be the reason that they outlawed the keeping of lyre snakes in california.

I'm not aware of any ban on Lyres in Ca. Current regs allow 2 with a fishing license.

[MasSalvaje]

I will continue to use the proper terminology when referring to rear fanged snakes, I will not allow a slightly possible ban to intimidate me or inhibit my use of terminology and information.

I would hope so, I am in no way against proper identification or verbage. My point is that if we are going to use the term of "mildly venomous" with species you have referred to, by your own rule above and one I am with you on, you must also apply that same title to Thamnophis.

And Loren I live in Utah where Keelbacks and the Lyre are controlled species. I was mistaken however, the Lyre is not controlled because of its mild venom like the Keelback. It is controlled because of its restricted range with in the state, so thank you for in advertantly addressing that.

-Thomas

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm not aware of any ban on Lyres in Ca. Current regs allow 2 with a fishing license.

Wow, then the guy I occasionally speak with in california, possibly, is insane????

or possibly I have the wrong state...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

by your own rule above and one I am with you on, you must also apply that same title to Thamnophis.


I do, quite often actually :)
It would just be extremely redundant to mention it on this forum every time I was speaking concerning them... but when I speak with people in person, at shows or customers in the store, I do inform and explain to people that garter snakes are by the books, rear fanged venomous animals.


I simply HAVE to try and find out where I found the info regarding the death from the Lyre snake bite and in which state they are protected... I know I have it somewhere! Don't you hate it when this stuff happens.... it was some time ago, when I get some real time on my hands, I will try and dig something up. I also met a guy today who is very informed on the laws and is one that enforces them, regularly confisgates reptiles and what not. I might be able to get help on that matter from him!!!

[DanFolsom]

I'd like to pick up 1.1 Red-Lipped Hearld snake CB preferbably. Any one with good intel? I'm on the west coast.

[And_Lyn]

Wow, then the guy I occasionally speak with in california, possibly, is insane????

or possibly I have the wrong state...

am i just confused or do you mean you have to have a ca fishing license to own up to two lyre snakes? i dont see how a fishing license would fall into owning snakes... unless of course these lyre snakes have a season of which to catch them... ive had several fishing licenses here in ca but have never heard of snakes under the category of a trout or bass limit or where youre allowed to fish... might want to contact california fish and game? unless im way off and caught the post at the wrong time... all these posts seem to be jumbled into one lately so i cant tell the difference anymore:confused:

[MasSalvaje]

am i just confused or do you mean you have to have a ca fishing license to own up to two lyre snakes? i dont see how a fishing license would fall into owning snakes... unless of course these lyre snakes have a season of which to catch them... ive had several fishing licenses here in ca but have never heard of snakes under the category of a trout or bass limit or where youre allowed to fish... might want to contact california fish and game? unless im way off and caught the post at the wrong time... all these posts seem to be jumbled into one lately so i cant tell the difference anymore:confused:

I am not in Cali so I can't speak specifically for them but most states that require a fishing license to collect do it for a couple of reasons. 1. so they have your information in the system, and 2. to make a few bucks on those people that want to collect. They due have "Bag Limits" just like fish and are usually found in the the Reptile and Amphibian proclamation put out by the DWR/DNR every year.

-Thomas

[jitami]

am i just confused or do you mean you have to have a ca fishing license to own up to two lyre snakes? i dont see how a fishing license would fall into owning snakes... unless of course these lyre snakes have a season of which to catch them... ive had several fishing licenses here in ca but have never heard of snakes under the category of a trout or bass limit or where youre allowed to fish... might want to contact california fish and game? unless im way off and caught the post at the wrong time... all these posts seem to be jumbled into one lately so i cant tell the difference anymore:confused:

I was surprised, too, but if you google california fish and game there's a pamphlet you can read that does indeed list most reptiles and amphibs just like fish. I still think it's odd, but... I guess someone has to govern it?

[jitami]

I'd like to pick up 1.1 Red-Lipped Hearld snake CB preferbably. Any one with good intel? I'm on the west coast.

Dan, first welcome from a neighbor :) Second, you should probably start a seperate thread for this, but I haven't heard anyone here speaking of any... not to say someone here doesn't keep them... we do have a classified section where you could put a wanted ad. Good luck with your search.

[Loren]

Wow, then the guy I occasionally speak with in california, possibly, is insane????

or possibly I have the wrong state...
Or possibly its a county reg. for the county your friend lives in?

[Loren]

I was surprised, too, but if you google california fish and game there's a pamphlet you can read that does indeed list most reptiles and amphibs just like fish. I still think it's odd, but... I guess someone has to govern it?
I think thats pretty much what it is, Tami. Its not worth the trouble to make a whole new license for herps, so they throw it under fishing. Still allows for regulation of reptiles and amphibians, and all they had to do is add 3-4 pages to the fishing regs.
For anyone in Ca. just get a freshwater fishing regulation booklet, either from a sporting goods store, or find it on the Ca. fish and game website.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

in PA, I am required to have my fishing liscence on me while herping.

[Hornets23]

Is that just if you're collecting snakes Shannon? Presumably you wouldnt need one if you were just looking/taking pics?

[Seere121]

<sarcasm> Well, It seems that I don't know a "well bred ribbon snake" when I see one </sarcasm> A new petco just opened in town this week and I went in to check out their reptiles. They had the usual smattering of boas, ball pythons and corn snakes, but what really caught my eye was a very pretty "ribbon snake" aka Striped Keelback. Had a chat with the assistant manager and the conversation was more or less "I know everything and you know nothing." Like these ribbon snakes aren't like the ribbons you see in Washington and theres only 15 species of garter snake. Can anybody spot whats wrong with both statements? I'd love to pick up the keelback, he or she seems in good health, active, attentive, constant tongue flicking, but I've heard too many horror stories about keelbacks from petco on here.

[gregmonsta]

If you want one then get it :) ... just remember to check for parasites with a stool sample ;) .... also - push the manager .... if he's unreceptive again tell him you would like a contact for his boss to make a formal complaint and watch him either backtrack or get furious .... in either case he's not allowed to refuse you ;)

Infact .... are there contact details for the shop so we can educate this poor ufortunate closed-minded creature?

[guidofatherof5]

What is it with Petco. In all these threads and posts on this Keelback subject I've yet to hear where the manager/s were receptive to any facts given to them. Sounds like upper management could care less. Not sure what it will take for them to change.

It's probably the old "It's just a snake" attitude. "Who cares!"

[gregmonsta]

Just mailed their head-office staff again ;) ... and demanded a comprehensive reply.

[Stefan-A]

Come on now, give them time to react. Changes don't happen overnight. :)

[gregmonsta]

Rofl ... they've had over two weeks in my case ;) .... it was more a jibe at the 'pro-forma' response I got last time ;)

[Stefan-A]

Rofl ... they've had over two weeks in my case ;) .... it was more a jibe at the 'pro-forma' response I got last time ;)
It's a large company. Decisions need to be made, memos need to be sent and labels need to be changed. That's going to take months.



theres only 15 species of garter snake.
35, actually. Quite possibly the largest genus there is, or at the very least it's among the top 5. Subspecies included, it seems that it's rivalled only by Lampropeltis.

[gregmonsta]

If it was my company every outlet would have had a comprehensive e-mail/fax within 2 days considering the amount of complaints.

1 complaint could be a one off .... two or more requires immediate action in my book.

[guidofatherof5]

Stefan is right.
The change will only come from the top. Individual managers won't make any changes until the home office gives them the new info. It may never happen but I'm sure it will never happen fast enough for all of us.

[Stefan-A]

If it was my company every outlet would have had a comprehensive e-mail/fax within 2 days considering the amount of complaints.

1 complaint could be a one off .... two or more requires immediate action in my book.
This whole issue won't reach the head of the company, it will be taken care of by people well below that person. :) There's also a chance that no changes will be made.

If it were my company, it wouldn't need to be corrected in the first place. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

And you wouldn't what it corrected, because???? Just curious:)

[Stefan-A]

And you wouldn't what it corrected, because???? Just curious:)
Because it wouldn't be wrong in the first place, was my point. ;)

[And_Lyn]

Technically, I think no one is right. I seriously doubt that anything will be done. I'm sure that this isn't the first time that these complaints have been made. It's awesome that so many people are trying, dont get me wrong. I know for a fact that MANY (about 150 people form another forum; me included) have complained about the little "care fact" cards on the front of the leopard gecko tanks. The ones that say "I like brightly colored calicum sand in my enclosure". They all got the standard issue responses. This was well over a year ago...and those placards are still there with the same information. Take from that what you will

-Lyndsey

[And_Lyn]

I might need to eat my words from my last post :rolleyes:.

I just spoke with the store manager. I told him what a striped keelback is. I told him that they are wild caught (and parasite ridden most of the time), that they are mildly venomous and that they are rear fanged. I said that no, they can't do much damage...but there might be that one person that is allergic to them.

I also informed him about our experience returning the snake

He told me that he's been away and that he will talk to the associates involved and that he will be calling us on Saturday. I told him that it was a VERY unpleasant experience and that I want something done to rectify the situation and how we were treated


He also said that he will contact the vendors that they buy from and try to find out what is going on with the labeling of the snakes


So...fingers crossed! :D

-Lyndsey

[drache]

that sounds promising

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Is that just if you're collecting snakes Shannon? Presumably you wouldnt need one if you were just looking/taking pics?
If I pick up a snake, I had better have that liscence with me. If i was just taking pics.... I can't see why I would. But Some of the places I herp are public parks so in those cases I carry it. when I am on my grandparent's privately owned farm, in the absolute middle of nowhere, obviously, I do not worry about that or how many of what kinds of snakes I am carrying with me. I usually gather up the snakes I find on the farm, photograph them, and then take them back to their various locations and put them back.

[gregmonsta]

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO :rolleyes: my entire dialogue >>>> so far :rolleyes:

----------------------------------Original Message-----------------------------------

Message:I need to raise an issue - on our forum www.thamnophis.com/ we have noticed an increasing trend in new members showing us their new 'garter' snakes. These snakes have not been of the species thamnophis but of the species Xenochrophis vittatus, also known as Striped Keelback and should be sold as such or as an "Indonesian garter".
Alarmingly, these snakes seem to have been labeled in your stores as 'common, eastern or Canadian garters' which is definately NOT the case.
These snakes are in fact rear-fanged and therefore carry a potential allergy risk. They are always wild caught and burdened with parasites and yet none of these facts have been passed on to your customers which is terribly alarming to say the least showing inadequate staffing/staff training/supplier information on your part.
Please rectify this problem immediately. It's downright irresponsible and I hope this will be taken seriously.


______________1st reply________________________________________

Dear Greg, Thank you for contacting PETCO regarding the snakes that we currently sell in our stores. I am surprised to hear about the information contained in your correspondence. We have licensed exotic and general veterinarians that visit the stores on a daily basis and this is the first piece of information I have heard regarding the Garter snakes actually being Striped Keelbacks.
I will be referring this information to my manager to gather further information about this. I can assure you that we are taking this issue very seriously, and we truly appreciate you taking the time out of your day to inform us of this so that we may do further research with our vendors as well.
Thank you again for contacting PETCO, Greg. If you have any questions or if we can be of assistance to you in the future, please feel free to contact us here at the Customer Relations Department at (888) 824-7257 or by responding to this message.
Sincerely,

Chris M.
Customer Relations Coordinator

_____________________my reply__________________________________

Hello,
we've had yet another incidence on our forum. I must say that with 7,000 members (the majority of which are American) you should really think about the reputation of your enterprise. Here is the latest quote -

"<sarcasm> Well, It seems that I don't know a "well bred ribbon snake" when I see one </sarcasm> A new petco just opened in town this week and I went in to check out their reptiles. They had the usual smattering of boas, ball pythons and corn snakes, but what really caught my eye was a very pretty "ribbon snake" aka Striped Keelback. Had a chat with the assistant manager and the conversation was more or less "I know everything and you know nothing." Like these ribbon snakes aren't like the ribbons you see in Washington and theres only 15 species of garter snake. Can anybody spot whats wrong with both statements? I'd love to pick up the keelback, but I've heard too many horror stories about keelbacks from petco on here."

I must stress I'm not doing this to cause any trouble but merely as an actively interested snake collector. I hope that bringing this to your attention will both allow you to improve your company's service to the hobby as well as keeping your customers satisfied and providing staff with correct information.

I hope this will yield a result sooner rather than later and I would prefer a more comprehensive reply, rather than a 'fill in the boxes' reply like the one below (which is identical to a reply received by one of our fellow enthusiasts)

Thankyou for your time,
Greg Mckenzie-Milne

___________________ today's offering _____________________________

Dear Greg,


I appreciate your patience while I researched your inquiry. We have consulted with our animal suppliers and PETCO’s chief veterinarian regarding your concern, and I am writing to confirm that the snakes you referred to in your correspondence, should indeed be referred to as “Striped Keelbacks” rather than “garter snakes”.
We will work as quickly as possible to properly label the Striped Keelbacks in our stores.
Thank you for calling this to our attention; we appreciate it.
Sincerely,

Chris M.
Customer Relations Coordinator



:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Very professional, Greg.

[gregmonsta]

As long as it brings change ;) I'll use language as a weapon :)

[guidofatherof5]

As long as it brings change ;) I'll use language as a weapon :)

If they have trouble hearing you, send them a track or 2. :eek: That will get their attention.:D

[gregmonsta]

Now there's a plan :D