radix sirtalis Q

[wolfpacksved]

I do not condone hybrid animals, but was curious as to what people thought about housing radix and sirtalis together. from what i have read, radix and sirtalis very rarely hybridize.

[infernalis]

As long as they are the same sex, I don't see a problem.

Mixed genders is just asking for that "rare" occurrence to happen.

We have a member here who housed a checkered and an eastern together, I have one of the offspring!

Better to be safe than sorry.


The more people I meet, the more I like snakes

I like that statement!

[Stefan-A]

from what i have read, radix and sirtalis very rarely hybridize.
Just out of curiosity, where did you read it?

[wolfpacksved]

thanks for the replies. The book was from the local university library and pretty in-depth. i will check it out again and post author, title, ect.. i know my radix is a F, not sure on the sirtalis. therefore, they will not be sharing space anytime soon. if i am not mistaken, the garter book discussed how butler's and plains do occasionally hybridize in Wisconsin.

[Stefan-A]

You wouldn't happen to remember the title or the author? Even a partial title would be great.

[wolfpacksved]

The garter snakes : evolution and ecology / by Douglas A. Rossman, Neil B. Ford, and Richard A. Seigel.

[Stefan-A]

I better reread it then. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Stefan,
Page 237 is what I think he's talking about.

[Stefan-A]

Can you quote the relevant parts for me? I don't have my book with me.

[guidofatherof5]

Taxonomic Comments: for T. Radix.

Since its description, the plains garter snake has not been confused with any other species, although A.GH.Smith(1949) believed that T.radix was conspecific with T.butleri and T. brachystoma, a position refuted by Conant(1950). the possibility that T.radix and T. butleri may hybridize where their ranges come in contact in southeastern Wisconsin has been suggested by Ford(pers comm.) and is currently being investigated by Rossman, Casper, Burhardt, and Good. Hybridization betwen T. radix and T. marcianus reportedly occurs in southwestern Kansas (H.M. Smith,1946), but it has not been confirmed.

From:"The Garter Snakes Evolution and Ecology by Douglas A. Rossman, Neil B. Ford and Richard A. Seigel

Hope this helps.

[Stefan-A]

Thank you.

[brain]

That is interesting.

I would have though it possible fro all graters to hybridize.

[Stefan-A]

That is interesting.

I would have though it possible fro all graters to hybridize.
It doesn't really say whether or not it's possible, but rather that it is possible that it occurs (in nature).

In captivity, a lot of animals will mate with species that they wouldn't mate with in the wild.

[brain]

TY

I just looked at my local library and they have the book so I asked them to order it.

Just for the read. Always willing to learn.

[wolfpacksved]

i was thinking sirtalis had been mentioned in the butleri /radix mix, but it's been awhile since i had the book in my possession. guess i should have just said i read it on the internet, then no one would have taken me seriously. :D this forum is the best source for questions such as do radix and sirt occasionally hybridize, since i know many members breed tham's and have likely seen it all. much better than a book. i was just tired of trippng over tanks and such so i wanted to house sirtalis and radix together. but until i know they are all the same sex, it is not going to happen.

[adamanteus]

I think any two Garter species/sub-species will hybridise in captivity if they're kept together. You can almost guarantee it.

[guidofatherof5]

Nature will find a way.

[infernalis]

It doesn't really say whether or not it's possible, but rather that it is possible that it occurs (in nature).

In captivity, a lot of animals will mate with species that they wouldn't mate with in the wild.

Thank you once again Stefan, That exact issue has been on my mind all day.

As soon as the statement was made, I immediately wondered if we were talking in nature or captivity.

Snakes that occur on different sides of the continent will not hybridize in nature, but as soon as someone ships them across the nation and puts them in a cage together, the situation changes drastically.

[ssssnakeluvr]

pretty much all garter snake species are genetically close enough to hybridize....it does happen in the wild occasionally.

[guidofatherof5]

but until i know they are all the same sex, it is not going to happen.

I think that's a good decision. Great question, too. Glad you are here.