An interesting observation - Receptive females?

[Stefan-A]

Something interesting happened this evening and I would like to hear if anybody else here has observed female garters behaving this way.

As one or two of you may know, I can divide one of my enclosures into two parts. I had temporarily housed all females (2 vagrans, 1 tetrataenia) in one half and the male vagrans in the other. Tonight I moved the male to an enclosure of its own and took down the wall that had previously separated the females from the male.

That's when the vagrans females flipped out.

They started rubbing their cloacas all over the place. Against the substrate, the walls, the water dish, the fake plants, even the glass doors. I'm not kidding. Both vagrans females started doing it, but not the tetrataenia. Seriously, they behaved a lot like courting males. Jerky movements, they arced their tails (they didn't lift them like they do when they're about to defecate) and when one of them was busy rubbing itself against the glass, I noticed that the cloaca was wide open. In fact, I could have sworn that I saw light at the other end. I tried to film it, but they stopped every time I got close enough.

For a moment I was freaking out, thinking they were having seizures, but it started the minute I took down the wall and they seemed to have complete control over it and they stopped doing it when I fed them. So it must have something to do with the scent of the male in the area they didn't have access to before.

Just when you think you've got the snakes figured out, they come up with something new.

[Sid]

I have had that happen only once with a female Eastern, Stefan. Really odd to watch.

[guidofatherof5]

Wow,
That male must have know the girls were on the other side and left them a love letter. Doesn't look like the wall could stop the pheromones. I've never seen that kind of reaction from any of my snakes.

[infernalis]

Stefan, I have never witnessed such behavior in any of my snakes.

Always had assumed that the ladies were the ones to cause reactions like this in the males?

I have witnessed similar behaviour in mammals (females in heat) but NEVER in any reptile species.

That was one of the most interesting things I have read this week.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

It must have been the scent of that male!!!! I have seen many a female garter arc their tail when they are receptive. As for the wide open cloacas... I've seen a few of them open them but never really looked too much into it, figuratively or literally as in your case:p!!! just kind of assumed it's something they do when its breeding season... (kind of like the way my moms ANNOYING female maine coone cat is in heat and walks around meowing all day and arcs its butt into the air)... at least thats what if reminds me of!!!!

[anji1971]

Very interesting, Stefan.
I remember last spring when I found the Butler's garter. I put his tank right next to Deejay's, and though she didn't have the "open cloaca" thing going, she did get a bit crazy for a long while, busily climbing and rubbing her body on the glass facing the male. She looked like she was desperately trying to get over to his tank. I wondered at the time if it was pheromones that she was picking up on, as he was a wild snake just out of brumation, and probably on the hunt. I'd actually forgotten about the whole incident until I read your post. Something worth keeping an eye out for..........

[drache]

very interesting
must have been cool to watch too

[jitami]

That is very interesting... and does remind me of a female dog in heat... cool...

[adamanteus]

Fascinating observation, Stefan. A real insight. Hopefully you'll be more efficient with the camera if they do it again!;):D

[Stefan-A]

The posts from last year have been lost, but I'm bumping this thread anyway. She's doing it again, third year in a row.

This is what I'm talking about:

laOb91Rtoho

It's an old video, but I have a little bit of new footage I should have up in a day or two.

[guidofatherof5]

Any discharge from these antics?
Very strange.

[Stefan-A]

None that I can tell, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Voluntary, only this time of year and only when the scent of a male is present. I don't know what other conclusion to draw from it, than that it has something to do with reproduction and that it's not a disorder.

[guidofatherof5]

I think your right about it not being a disorder but what a strange response.
Flattening the body and bending like that seem unnatural when you've never seen it before.
Could there be anything in the males enclosure that he's picking up and transferring to the females? Different plant, hide, anything?
Was the male actually in the females enclosure?

[Stefan-A]

There's a male in the enclosure below and another in the enclosure above and to the right. I saw some of this last year, when I housed them practically in the same enclosure with only a dividing wall between them. But her reaction was much stronger when I actually exposed her to an object that had been in a male's enclosure.

No objects have been moved from a male's enclosure to hers this time. There's nothing new in any enclosure.

She's just coming out of "brumation" (meaning she's behaving as if she was), just shed and her feeding response is better than it's been since October. So it's definitely springtime for her. I didn't actually brumate her, I just let her go off feed for a couple of months without changing anything else.

[gregmonsta]

I'm not sure if this was covered in one of the recent papers I sent you ... but I may have seen another piece recently that commented on receptive females doing such a thing. I'm not sure but I'll have a scan of my collection tomorrow, if I get the chance.

[PINJOHN]

is it possible that this is a survival device developed by male vagrans to offset the proclivity towards cannibalism in these snakes, males are potentially the victim [being smaller] in their encounters in the wild so if he exudes his musk , odor, or pheromones this would give him a greater chance of surviving said encounter. the extreme reaction in you viv would possibly be then caused by the over abundance of his smell in his half due to him being restricted to a relatively small space, this is not a considered well thought out idea, its just something that struck me while reading the thread i usually leave the scientific stuff to you smarter guys, i was going to point out the methods used by other vulnerable males spiders and such but you guys know all that stuff, its probably rubbish but it is nice to make a contribution

[zirliz]

my female checkered garter has been doing this since last year or so, she's just started again and shares with a Thamnpohis radix male but I've never tried anything with them, he'd need to brumated anyway and I don' have the time or skill to miss around with that.

This year I've added an albino garter a male over a year old who was left in a smaller enclosure to separate them (in case of fights)

She seems very interested to meet him and has been rubbing off the tank even before he was added so she must get the mood to do this herself, she's doesn't eat during this period for me either and is more active.

I didn't do the brumation thing don't have the space but due to difference in temp in winter and now it might have caused her to become inactive during that period.

[guidofatherof5]

I'd separate the male radix and female Checkered. You don't want any cross breeding.
If you've got a male Checkered now, then, there you go.:rolleyes:

[gregmonsta]

[QUOTE=zirliz;153196]Thamnpohis radix male but I've never tried anything with them, he'd need to brumated anyway and I don' have the time or skill to miss around with that.
QUOTE]

Not brumating is not a guarrantee. Your only option is to separate the males and the females.

On another note - This is the second year my Everglades ratsnake has shown something similar. In her case she likes to wipe her cloaca over the backboard of the enclosure just after defecating.

[drache]

I think I saw a mild version of that the other day, and it was the first time. One of my females paraded around the tank with her tail sticking up, and I thought she looked ready to eliminate, but she hasn't been fed in three months.
What your snake is exhibiting looks like more than ready frustration.