Breeding then releasing?

[philthechil]

I had a thought that if I do get like 5 Garter snakes, (I would only allow this is they were the same species: Eastern) males and females, I would not let them hibernate, but I would let them breed. I wouldn't exactly want it to happen, but if it does, I don't mind. Anyways, if I do get Babies on my hands, I would let them go near my house. There is a valley within like half a mile of my house with a water supply and I bet plenty of yummy insects for them. Thoughts?

[guidofatherof5]

Not yummy insect. Not for Garters. Not brumating doesn't assure they will not breed. Last year I had a couple non-brumaters breed. If this valley is a good location, why not take them to it?

[philthechil]

What do you mean "If this valley is a good location, why not take them to it?"

Well, the point is not to have them not breed, because if I really wanted them not to, I'd seperate them by gender. :P It's just that in the rare case that they do, I'm wondering if I can released them soon after birth.

[guidofatherof5]

Releasing soon after birth. The older and larger they are when they hit the food chain gives them a better chance at life. Newborns are like popcorn chicken in the wild. Why not keep them until they have put on some size and then release them. This way they have a better chance at survival. Granted there chances are still slim but at least they have a better chance. Are Easterns native to your area?

Having mixed sex will as a rule= babies.

[philthechil]

Yes, I got mine about 6 hours north of my house, and one of my cooworkers who lives like a mile away from me said him and his siblings caught like 50 of them last summer, did a science report on them, and brought them somewhere safer. :P

[tyflier]

Better check your local regulations. Releasing captive bred animals without a permit is HIGHLY frowned upon by both regulating authorities AND *most* hobbyists.

Doesn't matter if they are a local species or not...releasing captive animals into the wild is a VERY bad idea...and usually illegal, to boot...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Better check your local regulations. Releasing captive bred animals without a permit is HIGHLY frowned upon by both regulating authorities AND *most* hobbyists.

Doesn't matter if they are a local species or not...releasing captive animals into the wild is a VERY bad idea...and usually illegal, to boot...

what he said!!!
it is a bad idea for the risk of spreading pathogens that you impose, or possibly burdening an area with more snakes than it can handle, who end up eating all the prey and causing a chain collapse!!!

[philthechil]

:( Ok. Will do... I don't know what I'd do with the snakes otherwise. Maybe freeze 'em, but if I had to do that, I'd just keep the males and females apart.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Yes, I got mine about 6 hours north of my house, and one of my cooworkers who lives like a mile away from me said him and his siblings caught like 50 of them last summer, did a science report on them, and brought them somewhere safer. :P

I don't want to nitpick here... but they removed 50 snakes from their population where they were happy and thriving and moved them somewhere "safer"? Actually, what they did was decimate a population of snakes in one area, and stuffed a whole bunch of un-needed ones into an area that already had its own population, and they probably broke the law to boot... unless they had a permit for a field study and even then, they should definitely have not been released elsewhere. If they found 50 snakes in a certain area, that means that the area they were in was obviously "safe" enough for those 50 snakes to thrive.....so how is the new area safer? In fact it's not. You do not decide what is "safer" or "better" for those snakes, mother nature does and if they were thriving, then their area was plenty safe enough. It's a strange environment to them first off, so they will spend time wandering aimlessly wondering where the heck they are and many will be eaten in that process... the ones that survive, they have no idea where the food and water supplies are, and the parasites and "germs" there are more than likely foriegn and more likely to cause them harm than the ones they were used to, and since they are so stressed out, their immune system is suppressed and they are even MORE likely to fall victim to that. The major risk here, is that the snakes they introduced were carrying something that the existing snakes in that population cannot handle. That is how endangerments and population extinctions occur. Amphibians being released into the wild and contaminating healthy wild animals are why the worlds amphibians are now dying off thanks to chytrid fungus. usually, when conducting scientific research on live animals you would at least release them back where you found them.

And please know that I am not yelling at you, just venting in general and attmepting to educate all, including yourself, who may not know the effects of these types of ordeals. Knowledge is power and the more we spread it the further we will go in life. I get kind of upset when I hear mass exodus's of populations of animals and people thinking it is a good thing. Kind of was actually an understatement :o

[infernalis]

No offense, But why even bother with this "breeding" idea?

Just get yourself a pet snake and be happy with it.

Leave the breeding to those with experience. Both you and the snakes will be happier for it in the end.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Well, that's true to an extent Wayne, but we were all inexperienced at one point, and only by reaching out to others, gaining more confidence and knowledge, and trying something for the first time, do we become experienced!

I am glad that he is reaching out and asking questions, it shows that he is eager and willing to learn! I am really glad that he just didn't go with it without asking about the "what if" first!

[philthechil]

Well, I don't plan on having them breed, but in the worst case scenario that they do, I'm just wondering about my options. And... Shannon, right? Just a note: my friends family pretty much only moved them about 5 miles from where they are, so I don't think the bacteria there would be much different from before. But yes, I get your point. ;)

[Hornets23]

Is there some special reason why you cant just save yourself the trouble and seperate males and females to start with? Just have a male tank and a female tank. Thats what I do and it works out great. I dont want any babies right now.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Well, I don't plan on having them breed, but in the worst case scenario that they do, I'm just wondering about my options. And... Shannon, right? Just a note: my friends family pretty much only moved them about 5 miles from where they are, so I don't think the bacteria there would be much different from before. But yes, I get your point. ;)


but then why move them at all? still a strange place with it's own pop of established individuals! and even within a 5 mile radius, there are different populations of snakes, usually focusing around different bodies of water, and pathogens can differ even within a small distance. you just never, never know... sure, you don't think that there would be much of a difference, and heck, neither do I, but the point is that you, or I, just don't know, so it's best not to take the risk!

[philthechil]

I'm actually thinking trying and breeding them in like 2 years. I would keep most, and I know people who who want one.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm actually thinking trying and breeding them in like 2 years. I would keep most, and I know people who who want one.

Just be sure that you are fully equipped with supplies, time, and know-how to care for that many babies. It is a ton ton ton of work! But if done right, it's a LOT of fun!!! All of my snakes are pets to me. I don't NEED them to breed for me to be happy, but it is always a major plus if they will. I just love throwing them fishes and pinkies and smiling at them. Oh, and I love watching my similis try and use scare tactics through the glass :cool:

[philthechil]

What's the average litter for Garter snakes? 10-20?

[infernalis]

Well, that's true to an extent Wayne, but we were all inexperienced at one point, and only by reaching out to others, gaining more confidence and knowledge, and trying something for the first time, do we become experienced!

I am glad that he is reaching out and asking questions, it shows that he is eager and willing to learn! I am really glad that he just didn't go with it without asking about the "what if" first!

You have a valid point Shannon, I too am glad that Phil is asking questions.

That's why I chose to ask mine:D

Hopefully Phil will add the sum of all answers and reach his own conclusions.


What's the average litter for Garter snakes? 10-20?

Some litters may reach 28-40 Phil.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

a young female usually has between 1 and 20. A big robust female CAN have over 50 though...!!!!

[philthechil]

Geeze... Maybe I will hold breeding off 'till I know I can get rid of almost all of them. ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

haha, feeding all those babies every other day is a chore and a half! cause then you always have that 5 or 10 that dont wanna eat what everyone else is eating.... and you have to coax them and baby them to get them to eat!

[ssssnakeluvr]

in general, garters won't breed without brumation...in general!! some do. best to keep males and females separate....real easy to do. also, in lots of states, once you take an animal out of the wild, it cannot be legally released (there are some exceptions, for research) also, releasing babies can be illegal. they are lots of work....garters can have anywhere from 4-5 up to 50-60 babies, with the eastern garter holding the record at 92 babies.. gotta be ready to take care of lots of snakes. you could possibly find homes with other members on here.
Shannon covered the releasing stuff real well.

[guidofatherof5]

Raising a large group of babies is intense. Requires a lot of time and resources.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Raising a large group of babies is intense. Requires a lot of time and resources.
YES....just ask Scott F he raises between 300-500 babies a year!

[Hornets23]

Man...when you put it like that...its pretty incredible.

[infernalis]

YES....just ask Scott F he raises between 300-500 babies a year!

There is a difference between raising, and getting them started then shipping them.;)

Maybe I'm off base, but to me raising indicates keeping them through to adulthood.

[ssssnakeluvr]

well...yea, it's a little different...he does keep them for a bit to make sure they are feeding well, and he does keep a number of holdbacks....if he tried to keep them all he would be overwhelmed real fast!!!!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

There is a difference between raising, and getting them started then shipping them.;)

Maybe I'm off base, but to me raising indicates keeping them through to adulthood.

yea there's a difference... but he does hold a LOT of them for a whole to see who colors up. and its still a lotttt, of work. when I talked to him on the phone last he said he was spending TEN hours on a saturday... TEN.... to keep everyone fed!!!

[reptile3]

Maybe having one garter would be better for you... then you will not have to worry about it breeding accidentally.


I have 2 male dekayi's with one red sided garter.. which I believe is male, but they aren't doing anything but snuggling.

Now ask Aundrea about her 2 dekayi's... Benny who we thought, male. Benny is female, & pregnant. max, is a male.


Be happy with one garter to start out with, then after learning how to care for it. Later down the road, get another.

[prattypus]

'Member awhile back that guy got 50 blues under something and, how'd he put it? Instant breeding project? I'm glad you're looking before you leap, but some people aren't as considerate. Or smart.

[infernalis]

Yep Jason, and he ran away faster than he arrived too.

[adamanteus]

My thought is this, if the valley you speak of was good Garter habitat, it would most likely already have a population.
It's best not to go moving these animals from place to place, and as others have said, releasing babies is not a good idea, although on the face of things it may appear to be.

[philthechil]

Ok, my plan before is just getting 3 more females. Then there would be no threat of accidental breeding.

[guidofatherof5]

I think you've made a good decision.

[infernalis]

I think you've made a good decision.


I second Steve's motion.

Great choice!

[guidofatherof5]

The Motion passes. Meeting Adjourned.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Great!! meeting over, now I can go have a beer!!! :cool:

[OregonHerpaholic]

>>Doesn't matter if they are a local species or not...releasing captive animals into the wild is a VERY bad idea...and usually illegal, to boot

Most states it is ILLEGAL to release anything born IN CAPTIVITY.. If you grab a gravid female or end up with breeding, you might just end up stuck with LOTS of babies.. You can give away, but most states, that can be illegal as well.

Better to just pick ONE.. OR instead of catching your pet, try captive bred garters..that way you are not harming the wild population.. There are several GREAT garter breeders in US, and Abroad.. no reason to risk breeding problems.

[Loren]

we were all inexperienced at one point, and only by reaching out to others, gaining more confidence and knowledge, and trying something for the first time, do we become experienced!

I am glad that he is reaching out and asking questions, it shows that he is eager and willing to learn! I am really glad that he just didn't go with it without asking about the "what if" first!

Very well said Shannon. :)