snake's age! ....

[snakems]

so how would I go about figuring out how old my garter is? Or is there even a way that I can do this.... even in a "guesstimate" sort of way...
I found her this fall outside so chances are she has never been a captive snake before. I do suppose this isnt really important considering I will be releasing her in the spring BUT I would however be interested in finding out.
She came to me (or should I say I found her) with a lot of different questionable marks and scars. Or at least this is what I thought they were. Not knowing too too much about snake injuries and how they heal I couldnt be positive but she had a lot of black/greyish marks here and there that seemed to be past injuries that has healed a while back. It made me wonder how long she'd have to be out there on here own to acquire so many scars. I guess its possible she just had bad luck though.
Since I had her she's been doing great even with the terribly unfortunate encounter she had with my cat, (that she seems to be healing amazingly from) that I am still feeling so guilty about.
Poor little snake didnt ASK to be caught and here I go putting her in danger with a predator she has no defense against :( (mind you of course this was a complete ACCIDENT)
To be honest I am not even POSITIVE that she is even a female but I sexed her myself reading the differences between male and female. maybe soon I will post a picture up of her cloaca area to see what you guys think. I could have been calling snakems a SHE all this time when she is really a HE :) lol
At first I referred to her as a "he" because for whatever reason I just automatically I guess associate snakes with being male. Though I know thats not the case lol but i checked her out and was fairly certain "he" was a she. But i could definitely be wrong.

well.... as with all of my other posts so far this one is no different in the respect that it is getting off course and just becoming a mess of me talking about things with no real connection, or order lol so .... Im going to close with my original question.... :o

"is there a way to tell your snakes age?"

thanks for reading :)

[adamanteus]

There is no accurate way of judging their age, beyond baby, sub-adult or adult. So many factors influence their grown rate.

[snakems]

There is no accurate way of judging their age, beyond baby, sub-adult or adult. So many factors influence their grown rate.
aww... thats a shame :(
I wish there was a magical way I could just figure it out lol

how would you differentiate between the three you mentioned?
Im assuming mine is an "adult".

[adamanteus]

Yes, size alone would indicate whether or not your 'Snakems' in an adult. Have you posted pictures yet, Sayra?

[snakems]

Yes, size alone would indicate whether or not your 'Snakems' in an adult. Have you posted pictures yet, Sayra?

yes I posted some pictures of her healing injuries in the "cat attack injuries" thread down there somewhere lol
since then I have not posted any though.
I have an album if you go to my profile with pictures of her though, I dont know if anyone has really seen those though. It seems to me its hard to find someone who utilizes the picture feature on here.... but then again Im still just learning my way around.:)

[adamanteus]

yes I posted some pictures of her healing injuries in the "cat attack injuries" thread

Ah, yes, of course! I'd forgotten about those. Yes, you have an adult!:D

[snakems]

Ah, yes, of course! I'd forgotten about those. Yes, you have an adult!:D

thanks! lol I appreciate the info.
Im loving this whole shedding thing. Her eyes are so pretty foggy blue/grey right now. I hope she's able to get a little of the shedding going on her own.
Though I dont mind doing the whole humid container "towel" thing, I feel like if she can get some of it done as is it might make me feel better about her condition since the attack =/
she has no bites or punctures for a good couple inches from the start of her head.

[adamanteus]

She should slough just fine on her own, Sayra. Just watch for the old skin tearing around the wounds and leaving little pieces stuck to her. If this happens you might just have to help her by gently peeling these away.
Personally, I think you'll start to see a rapid improvement in her general health once she comes out of that old skin.

[snakems]

yay :)
Im pretty sure she is an eastern garter... do you have any of those?

[adamanteus]

I don't have Easterns. Well, that's not strictly true.... I have a pair of melanistic (all black) Easterns, but no regular ones. Lots of our other members do though, especially US members.

[adamanteus]

It seems to me its hard to find someone who utilizes the picture feature on here.... but then again Im still just learning my way around.:)


I looked at your album.... very nice. You will find most people are using the 'Gallery' function (fourth tab on the portal page). Click on there if you want to see members photos... there are A LOT!:D

This is worth looking at too...
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Photographic_Library

[snakems]

while I have your attention in this post I was wondering about switching her food over to some kind of small fish.
the first few weeks I had her I noticed she did this thing in the water where she put her head under and swam around all crazy like... flailing her head around almost like how Ive seen snakes do in the water when given fish to eat. But there were no fish in there for her to eat lol
Maybe she was just soaking up, but it was amusing. I'd like to feed her fish if there's no problem with it, but do you think it would create a problem with her being fine eating worms? I dont want to try the fish and then have her not want to go back to the worms because Im not sure I can commit completely to feeding her fish yet, depending on the availability of them here and how often I will need to buy them and method of storing. :)

[Stefan-A]

There is no accurate way of judging their age, beyond baby, sub-adult or adult. So many factors influence their grown rate.
Heather L. Waye and Patrick T. Gregory: Determining the age of garter snakes (Thamnophis spp.) by means of skeletochronology ;)

[snakems]

Heather L. Waye and Patrick T. Gregory: Determining the age of garter snakes (Thamnophis spp.) by means of skeletochronology ;)


was this supposed to be a link? :o

[Stefan-A]

No, just a reminder.

[snakems]

also I noticed that she doesnt do this anymore.
JUST NOW actually. Lol i hadnt given it much thought before but I am now realizing she has stopped that behavior. I was thinking it was because she's realized there is never anything for her to eat in there and she's getting worms for food.

[snakems]

No, just a reminder.

ohhh.... ok.
thats interesting. Do you know if this is something that can determined while the snake is alive? or this just a theory?

[adamanteus]

Feeding fish is a very good idea. While Garters love worms, they're not much of a meal on their own. I use trout strips, pinky mice and worms when I can get them.

[Stefan-A]

ohhh.... ok.
thats interesting. Do you know if this is something that can determined while the snake is alive? or this just a theory?
If by theory you mean a testable and tested concept, then yes, it is "just" a theory.

[adamanteus]

I think you need a dead snake to test it on though!

[snakems]

If by theory you mean a testable and tested concept, then yes, it is "just" a theory.

ooo.... sarcastic with the not so knowledgable snake challenged members I see
:confused:

[snakems]

I think you need a dead snake to test it on though!

yes that's what I am saying. I know nothing about it but I wouldnt imagine you could figure this out on a live snake.
but of COURSE i could be completely wrong.

[snakems]

**couldnt**

[Stefan-A]

ooo.... sarcastic with the not so knowledgable snake challenged members I see
:confused:
No, I just dislike the phrase "just a theory". A lot.

[snakems]

well I wasnt intending to belittle the definition of "theory" by saying "just a theory"
im sorry, I just meant in comparison to a fact, which at that moment given the little info and first mention I had ever heard about it before, I wasnt so sure about what exactly it was you had posted.

[adamanteus]

It's unfortunate that the various natural factors governing the growth rate of a snake, such as availability of food, type of food, weather and who knows what else, make it almost impossible to accurately guess the age of a wild-caught snake. There are certain indicators.... if it's a really big specimen, it's probably quite old. If it's very 'clean' and free of scars, it's probably quite young. But nothing accurate that I know of without cutting the poor thing in half and counting the rings!:D

[snakems]

I looked it up afterwards. Im not sure how to go about finding information on the subject that's more layman-friendly

[snakems]

It's unfortunate that the various natural factors governing the growth rate of a snake, such as availability of food, type of food, weather and who knows what else, make it almost impossible to accurately guess the age of a wild-caught snake. There are certain indicators.... if it's a really big specimen, it's probably quite old. If it's very 'clean' and free of scars, it's probably quite young. But nothing accurate that I know of without cutting the poor thing in half and counting the rings!:D

yeah :(
so sad lol .... I guess I will never know.

[Stefan-A]

Abstract: Individual and population-specific patterns of growth, and variations in these patterns, can be determined if the age
of individuals is known; this allows the dynamics of populations to be more accurately modelled and projected into the future
and provides a better understanding of the life history. Besides contributing to our understanding of the fundamental
ecological issue of limitation of distribution and abundance, such knowledge is critical to management or conservation plans
for many species. Skeletochronology, the reading of growth layers in bony structures, has been used extensively to determine
the age of individual fish and, to a lesser extent, of reptiles and amphibians. This study evaluates the use of skeletochronology
to determine the age of garter snakes (Thamnophis spp.), with emphasis on the development of techniques that allow the
sampling of bone structures from live animals. Layers were observed in the caudal vertebrae of two species of garter snakes,
using standard histological techniques, and were consistent in number within individual snakes, with some variability. The
validity of growth layers as an indicator of age was established using snakes raised in the laboratory under differing
hibernation regimes. Skeletochronology has the potential to be an important and useful technique for the study of age in
snakes, but is very labour-intensive and is best used as part of a large, long-term project.

But no, I don't recommend it. I did reply to James, who probably got the joke.

[adamanteus]

I'd rather just guess!

[guidofatherof5]

I just just check their driver's license:D Once a cop always a cop.

[snakems]

I just just check their driver's license:D Once a cop always a cop.

bahaha! :D