Multi Animal Enclosure?

[philthechil]

I had a wild and crazy idea of getting like a 40 gallon tank and putting my tarantula and my garter snake in there together. My tarantula is really really docile and didn't to anything to the frog that was sitting on top of him one time for 10 minutes. :P Also my little brother wants to get a rodent of some kind so maybe put that in there as well. Please give me your thoughts. :D

[Stefan-A]

Don't do it. It's a very, very, very bad idea.

[reptile3]

ummm I don't think that would be a good idea... usually you house similar snakes in the same enclosure.

[drache]

I had a wild and crazy idea of getting like a 40 gallon tank and putting my tarantula and my garter snake in there together. My tarantula is really really docile and didn't to anything to the frog that was sitting on top of him one time for 10 minutes. :P Also my little brother wants to get a rodent of some kind so maybe put that in there as well. Please give me your thoughts. :D
very wild and crazy idea, and one I strongly advise against

[philthechil]

What do you mean by house similar snakes? What would you think would happen in such a scenario?

[Zephyr]

What do you mean by house similar snakes? What would you think would happen in such a scenario?Tarantula gets hungry, eats snake. Snake gets hungry, eats rodent.
Don't do it.

[philthechil]

I think that the Tarantula would be my only problem. But hey, it was just a thought. :P Gwenne would be much to small to eat any kind of live rodent.

[drache]

Gwenne would be much to small to eat any kind of live rodent.
in that case you need to worry about the rodent hurting her

[philthechil]

Ya.... Screw that idea. :P Do you think it would be possible to have any kind of animals together?

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, animals with the same needs and compatible lifestyles.

[philthechil]

Any suggestions? :P

[Stefan-A]

No, I wouldn't really recommend any combination of species.

[adamanteus]

It's a novel idea... why not throw a pig in there too, and maybe one of the lower primates. Do you have access to geese?

You are joking, right?:D

[guidofatherof5]

Rodents get hungry when snakes are not. Rodents bite and eat snakes.
Tarantulas can cause some major injuries on anything. NOT A GOOD IDEA TO MAKE THIS MIX.


Tarantula gets hungry, eats snake. Snake gets hungry, eats rodent.
Don't do it.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

okay, I really don't want to beat a dead horse, but I do feel the need to reiterate that this is absolutely, a terrible, horrible, awful idea. This puts all three animals in danger and they WILL attack each other. Rodents are omnivorous and will kill things and eat them given the chance. No matter how you put it, tarantuals are not docile, and do not have feelings and will have no problem sinking its fangs into your snake. Some are less inclined to bite you, but they are not docile friendly creatures, and neither are rodents or snakes. The only snakes you can really keep together are garters, and even then you want to keep only same species/subspecies together or if you want to mix subspecies, make sure they are all males or females. Other types of snakes should be houses separate from garters, and separate from each other because MOST snakes that are not garters, ribbons, dekay's or water snakes are totally solitary and need their own private space.

[ssssnakeluvr]

as everyone said.............very bad idea, rodent will eat each....snake eat frog, tarantula eat snake.....endless possiblilities, all bad!!!!! even bad putting different species of snakes together....some snakes feed on other snakes.......

[Hornets23]

I have a tarantula that is "docile". If i put my snake, one of my mice and my tarantula all together i can almost guarantee that I would be left with one fat spider.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

hahaha, definitely!!!

[reptile3]

Any suggestions? :P

what kind of garter do you have? you can have the same ones...

[philthechil]

Haha... I guess it was a really stupid idea. :P I'm pretty sure I have an Eastern Garter. Here's some pictures.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/4890-gwennes-home.html

[reptile3]

Haha... I guess it was a really stupid idea. :P I'm pretty sure I have an Eastern Garter. Here's some pictures.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/4890-gwennes-home.html


I am no pro, but looks like an Eastern Garter... very nice.:)

[prattypus]

Yea, different species living together. You want that? Go on a hike where nature lives. Nature is not kind, and shouldn't be recreated just 'cause.

I know that everyone has already chimed in, but after a long week I wanted my 2 cents in there too!:D

[snakems]

:eek: :( please for all of their sake's dont try this :( lol

[snakems]

Its one thing for them to happen upon one another in the wild and from there nature takes its course, but in that scenario they would all at least have the oppotunity to at least attempt getting away from one another. Im sure there is a LIST of unfortunate things that could result from this and if they were to happen you would never forgive yourself. lol well if you're anything like me anyway. This to me is right up there with **** fights. lol .... I know you were just asking so its not as though you went through with it but I would really think hard about it before trying it.:)

[snakems]

uh oh! :eek: ..... I didnt realize I was typing an obscenity! :( lol Im sorry "roosterfights"

[adamanteus]

This is a really good starting point to learn about Garter Snake husbandry.
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet
Please read it before acquiring any more animals.

[guidofatherof5]

"Can't we all just get along" may have worked well for Rodney King but in nature it's survival on a second to second bases.
Running across another species could mean your death.

You have a great looking snake there.

[reptile_jones]

spider eating a Mouse.

YouTube - Goliath Bird Eating spider eating a Mouse. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD2kHjjt82o)

tarantula vs coralsnake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r6K9eBjLbI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r6K9eBjLbI)


just a few that i found.

[philthechil]

You guys don't need to continue on this topic. :P I've gotten the point and I am NEVER going to try this! :P

[guidofatherof5]

Great decision. :) It's a wrap.
Let's pack it up and move on:D

[crzy_kevo]

i agree with every1 besides a live rodent could also harm the snake too
there was a thread a while back about a guy who left a rat in with his ball python overnight and the rat chewed up the snake it had huge wounds all over its body and somehow was still alive

[infernalis]

Great decision. :) It's a wrap.
Let's pack it up and move on:D

Awe darn, The bus left already???

Once upon a time Romans used to put men in lion cages;)

[infernalis]

We had a cat and 3 snakes in a tank together for a bit.

It didn't work out, so we got a seperate tank for the cat;)

http://www.dekayi.info/1/silver.jpg

[philthechil]

HAHAHAHA! That is funny Wayne! :P I'm guessing that it wouldn't work to put a Lizard and a Garter in together?

[infernalis]

HAHAHAHA! That is funny Wayne! :P I'm guessing that it wouldn't work to put a Lizard and a Garter in together?


Well that would depend a lot on the animals.

An Anole would be harmless enough, however it would likely freak the anole out enough to kill it.

OR the snake may just eat the anole.

On the other extreme, we have a Savannah Monitor that will eat snakes in a second flat.

Mixing species in one enclosure is just a bad idea all the way around.

http://www.dekayi.info/PG1/images/4chomp.jpg

[diamondsirtalis]

Those are some cool pics of chomp chomp.

I remember an episode of Miami vice called "Phil the chill" starring Phil Collins.

[ssssnakeluvr]

put an anole in with a wandering and it would be lunch....have seen them eat sideblotch lizards :eek:

[guidofatherof5]

I have heard that Wanderings are very aggressive eaters:eek:

[guidofatherof5]

Wayne, Chomper is looking good. Great photos.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have heard that Wanderings are very aggressive eaters:eek:
yea...all but some of mine are.....got a couple picky ones... back after I got out of the army and move to Boise Idaho, I caught a gt basin gopher snake and an adult wandering.....I didn't know as much as I do now...I had them both in a 3' x 2' cage I built....I made a trip to the pet store and got some goldfish and a mouse for the gopher snake....I went in later to check on them...the goldfish were gone and the wandering was eating the mouse!!!!!

[philthechil]

Hey, I don't want to start a new thread, but once I think Gwenne is full grown, I can give her fuzzies, right?

[infernalis]

Not a problem....

http://www.dekayi.info/PG1/images/di2mouse.jpg

[philthechil]

Wow! And I've only been feeding her pinkies!!

[infernalis]

Somewhere I have the "After" Photo....

[infernalis]

Here it is.

http://www.dekayi.info/1/mouseate.jpg

http://www.dekayi.info/1/mouseate1.jpg

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

HAHAHAHA! That is funny Wayne! :P I'm guessing that it wouldn't work to put a Lizard and a Garter in together?


For the Record..... putting a snake and a lizard in the same enclosure is a bad idea also. Lizards are terrified of snakes, even if the snake won't eat the lizard, the lizard will 1)kill the snake or 2) die of fright!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but you can't put your garter snake with anything except another garter snake. And keep your mice with your mice, your tarantula alone, and your lizards with their own species as well.

[infernalis]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but you can't put your garter snake with anything except another garter snake.

Proven fact, Dekayi & Garters mix well;)

I tried putting pet fish in my snakes water bowl, kept disappearing.

So then I tried baby mice, darn things kept escaping or something, don't know why?

After his pet worm vanished I gave up trying.

disregard everything after my first sentence.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

okay so I left dekayi's out. Totally forgot about them, actually, But I don't house separate species together and would advise against it for him since he is very new to snake keeping ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hm Wayne, my snakes seem to keep eating their pets too!! I can't figure out why :eek:

[Sitting_duck]

okay, i really don't want to beat a dead horse, but i do feel the need to reiterate that this is absolutely, a terrible, horrible, awful idea. This puts all three animals in danger and they will attack each other. Rodents are omnivorous and will kill things and eat them given the chance. No matter how you put it, tarantuals are not docile, and do not have feelings and will have no problem sinking its fangs into your snake. Some are less inclined to bite you, but they are not docile friendly creatures, and neither are rodents or snakes. The only snakes you can really keep together are garters, and even then you want to keep only same species/subspecies together or if you want to mix subspecies, make sure they are all males or females. Other types of snakes should be houses separate from garters, and separate from each other because most snakes that are not garters, ribbons, dekay's or water snakes are totally solitary and need their own private space.

+1,000,000

[mtolypetsupply]

Phil, I'm really glad you asked, especially *before* doing it, rather than your post being "Why did my tarantula eat my snake?" :)

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems as if you are new to animal husbandry. There is NOTHING wrong with that, and we all start somewhere. This is a great forum with which to start, I am by no means a zoologist or biologist or any other certified "ologist", myself. I learn something on this and other forums daily, if not more often than that. Even our most experienced keepers on here are constantly learning, just look at the books on "What are you reading" thread, and the abstracts and papers authored or referenced by them. (Genuflecting to those Thamnophis gods now, LOL). Keep reading, keep researching, and keep learning.

Mixed-species enclosure are a growing trend for zoos, aquariums and even some hobbyists. However, it seems to me, a great deal of research and knowledge go into these things, not to mention a huge amount of space and a large budget. The National Aquarium at Baltimore does it very well, I was amazed at their Rainforest exhibit.

If you really want a mixed-species enclosure, what about mixing your garters with some feeder species? For example, you could do your research and create a paludarium: a tank with water and land portions. Create an environment conducive for your garters on the land, and seed the water portions with garter safe fish.

Plant the water portion, and give plenty of cover in which, say, your black dace minnows or guppies could hide and breed, and your garters will be fat and happy, and your feed bill might be negligible. You could make a huge one, and even have some frogs, small ones not a threat to snakes like bullfrogs are, and the frogs eat the fish and frog food, and the garters eat the tadpoles and fish, etc. but the frogs are still viewed as "feeders" rather than pets.

Or put very large but HERBIVOROUS fish that would pose no threat to the garters in the water enclosure, I would say fish so large that there is NO WAY the snakes would try to eat them. I would say that whatever you chose to put in there, make sure your garters are at the top of the food chain. :) Don't get attached to a "favorite Minnow named Fred". Be prepared to restock your feeder pond as needed. And lastly, the paludarium would give your garter babies a great place to swim.

Just out of curiosity, what inspired you to want a mixed-species enclosure in the first place?

I myself would love to create a paludarium worthy of Princess Ernestine and King James. Right now, it's not a possibility, so they have fake plants, and laticrete hide rocks. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Stephi,
What a nice post.

[adamanteus]

Yes, what Steve just said!

[philthechil]

I have a Tarantula so I just thought it would be cool to try and get them to get along. Seeing as I put in a fat frog in with the tarantula one time, and my tarantula actually let the frog actually sit on it's head! Anyways... That would be a good idea... :P I'm actually thinking of having like 4 eastern garters together in a 55 gallon tank... So maybe that would work. I could get like 5 of the 36 cent freshwater shrimp they have at Petco. :P and then maybe a few guppies that would not be goldfish. :P

[guidofatherof5]

Shrimp? I don't know anything about that idea. With the cheap(much cheaper than shrimp) available safe foods, why?
Do shrimp contain Thiaminase? or is there something else to be concerned about.
Someone help.

[philthechil]

I guess they probably do. No sense taking chances...
"Among the food fish families consumed by man, species that contain thiaminase include minnows, carps, herrings, anchovies, goatfishes and snappers. Many different invertebrates have also been found to contain thiaminase, including mussels, clams and shrimps/prawns such as those in the genus Penaeus, sometimes in even higher concentrations than those found in fish."

Thiaminase (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/thiaminase.htm)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

shrimp are invertebrates and contain exoskeletal parts that should not be ingested by garters, they can't digest it. It was a nice thought but even if you offered purely the meat.... I would be really wary of it and it would probably be better to just stick to safe foods.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks, Shannon.

[philthechil]

Ya, I guess that the Shrimp idea wouldn't work... :P I could try connecting with a tube to a different tank alltogether, probably a 10 gallon, that would be mostly full of water, and have frogs and fish and hiding places for those frogs and fish. Would the garters enjoy swimming through the water like that for food though?

[guidofatherof5]

My Radix love the water. Although, I think most of there interest in it is connected to their food drive and the hopes they will run into something edible.

[GarterNovice]

I'm glad to hear your Radix like water Steve:) Cause my viv's got a nice swimming pond for them:)

[philthechil]

Ok, that would look so cool if I pulled it off right! I would need alot of room though...

[GarterNovice]

As soon as I can get a big enough place I'm so making a huge garter enclosure that can hold five or ten snakes:) Was even thinking of trying to make a river with a current through the ground layer. Oh did I mention I'd add other levels to the tank so everyone had their own little hangout place?:) Dreaming is a lot of fun:)

[guidofatherof5]

Remember, Radix are social creatures.
They like company.