Not Again....

[Jack Neary]

Guys,
Just got back from a 5 day business trip and after greeting my wife and daughter, went down to my basement to clean my 3 vivariums, clean and fill water bowls, dispurse a bunch of Pinkies and check over my Red Spots, Easterns, Butlers, Pugets and my 2 Similis's.
I generally try and look over each of my growing collection of Garter's every few days to kind of watch for any type of developing health issues (with my very limited knowledge base....)
After looking over my Garter's tonite, I sadly detected my one male Puget and my female (alway biting) Similis (from the same clutch as your Similis, Shannon, which I bought from Scott as well)
Anyway, noticed both Garter's are displaying the same bubbly-sounding breathing respitory infection that my female Butler, Samantha, died from, despite my efforts in injecting her with antibiotics, with a syringe, every 3 days......
Has anyone had their garter's develop this similar respitory infection and been able to get their Garter's to recover from it?
Based on my previous experience with my Butler, Samantha and a couple hunder dollars in herp vet bills/antibiotics, I just don't have any confidence in being able to cure both of them of their possible respitory infections? I watched (too long) Samantha die from this similar infection and do not want to see this happen again............!
Can anyone tell me how they contract these respitory infections?
I keep my Viv's clean and DRY! I use Care Fresh substrate. Temps at 80 -82 degrees - (72 on cool end where their water bowl is located) What am I doing wrong?
Is this infection contagous?
Any advice would be welcomed, Shannon, Wayne?
I am so damn frustrated this is happening again &^%$#@!
Jack

[infernalis]

Jack, I wish I could be of more help. Never had to deal with this (yet):(

I'll dredge through some old postings and what I can find out for you.

Here is the only one I can find here.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/585-respiratory-problems.html

One thought, Even though you keep your vivs well heated, Basement air tends to be dank, and have high levels of humidity and or mold spores.

[Jack Neary]

Thanks, Wayne! Would you recommend seperating them from my other Garter's? Do you think this infection is contagous?
Need to find a new Herp Vet ASAP!
Thanks for all your help, Wayne! Everyone on this forum have always been so helpful and are all AWESOME!!!
Jack

[reptile3]

I am sorry Jack!!:(

[infernalis]

Jack, One thing I highly suggest, yes separate them, and secondly, get them upstairs ASAP.

It may be difficult, I don't know your particular circumstances, but if you have to, move something else down there, and trade spaces do so quickly.

At the very least, get the infected snakes upstairs right now.

Normally, humidity is our friend, but it also promotes mold growth, and spores go airborne, Since snakes are cold blooded, I think it may be far worse for them than it would a warm blooded creature.

Long term exposure to spore laden air could very likely be the problem.

I just trolled kingsnake looking for information, and the damn search engine on that site sucks to say the least.

[Jack Neary]

Wayne,
Will seperate them now... However, my humidity in my basement I was fearing was too low (25% to 32%)?
My Butler, Samantha that died of this seamingly similar, respitory infection, was keep outside in my first 10-Gallon Viv on the Patio table when I initally detected her respitory infection.
My other 36 (Sure hope my wife's not reading this forum!) Eastern's, Butler's, and Puget's are doing fine, which I am VERY greatful!!!
Jack

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Jack, I do recommend you separate the sickened snakes immediately. How ill are they? are they drooling, is the wheezing really bad that they open their mouth when they breath, or do you just hear a slight popping when they breath?

How contagious it is depends on if they are reacting negatively to their environment and that was the cause of it, or if it is an active pathogen seeking out reptiles to infect. In either case I would separate. Bring them upstairs and up their temperatures to higher than normal. Depending on how sick they really are, you may or may not need to rush to the vet. If it's just a little popping that is concerning you, it could clear up on its own if you bring their temps up, keep their stress low and what not. If they are wheezing, drooling, crust is forming on their lips, lethargic, limp, struggling to move, or they have a secondary stomatitis infection in their mouth... I would be really worried and seek prompt veterinary care!!!

[infernalis]

I take it then that you must be running a dehumidifier?

I got mixed feelings on them.

[Jack Neary]

Shannon and Wayne!
Thanks for your help!
Shannon, I am only hearing some "popping" and some very slight wheezing... My Similis has displayed some slight drooling over the past 2+ months, come to think of it? I just chalked it up to just having startled her? I didn't put 2 and 2 together on seeing that symptom... I'm an idiot %$#@!
Both snakes appear normal when you hold them, as of now. Neither one is limp or lifeless...
My Similis always seems to burrow in the Care Fresh and is rarely visible? Is this normal? I kind of chalked it up to it being winter and trying perhaps brumate, which I have no adequate place for that would be of the right tempature...
Wayne, I do not have a dehumidifier. My house is just really dry I guess...
Shannon, have you ever had any of your Garter's or other snakes develop any type of respitory infection?
I really don't mind taking my snakes to the vet, I just don't have confidence I can cure this infection, based upon my past attemps in injecting Sam with antibiotics without any success....
Jack

[snakeman]

are the snakes front half where the lungs are located puffed up and larger than the other half of the body?

[Jack Neary]

are the snakes front half where the lungs are located puffed up and larger than the other half of the body?

My Similis definetly appears to be be enlarged in the lung area. Is that bad? (Probably a dumb question....)
My Puget looks less puffed or swolen in his lung area...
Thanks for your help!
Jack

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

That is indeed, a bad sign!

[snakeman]

I had a respiratory infection go thru an kill almost my whole collection a couple of years ago.It killed my snakes pretty quick.When they breathed it would look like they were holding there breath for a couple of seconds.

[Gijs & Sabine]

Of course I'm not a vet, but it could be pneumonia, but I hope not....it's very hard for garters to recover from that.
But in most cases garters with symptoms like this suffer from lungworms. That's easy to treat and the future prospects are good.
Like the others I suggest to separate the sick animals from the healthy ones and visit a vet asap.

Good luck, I hope your garters get well :)

[brain]

But in most cases garters with symptoms like this suffer from lungworms. That's easy to treat and the future prospects are good.



Is there a health article on lungworms?

[Gijs & Sabine]

Is there a health article on lungworms?
I'm no expert in finding this on the internet, Michael ;) But I found this Dutch site translated in english....
It also includes a medicationlist for reptiles, but I suggest NOT treaten your reptile without seeing a vet!! But I think that's obvious.

How to keep… (http://www.podarcis.nl/info/ziektenuk.php3)

[adamanteus]

Jack, if your temps are correct and the humidity levels aren't high, are you sure your vivs are adequately ventilated? Stale air is one of the most common causes of respiratory infections.

[brain]

I'm no expert in finding this on the internet, Michael ;) But I found this Dutch site translated in english....
It also includes a medicationlist for reptiles, but I suggest NOT treaten your reptile without seeing a vet!! But I think that's obvious.

How to keep… (http://www.podarcis.nl/info/ziektenuk.php3)

Truly I am no vet either, but always willing to learn. Fore warned is fore armed.
I do know there are lungworms which infect cattle. I wonder if that’s the same.

[Jack Neary]

Jack, if your temps are correct and the humidity levels aren't high, are you sure your vivs are adequately ventilated? Stale air is one of the most common causes of respiratory infections.

James,
My one Viv where both snakes are housed, has a complete screen top. Do I need to place a fan nearby to enhance air movement?
I am learning everyday, but didn't realize stagnant moving air would create an issue...?

[adamanteus]

A complete screen top should be adequate... it was just a thought.

[infernalis]

Jack, if your temps are correct and the humidity levels aren't high, are you sure your vivs are adequately ventilated? Stale air is one of the most common causes of respiratory infections.


Thank you James, Basement air is usually about as stale as air can get.

Maybe mold, maybe not, but a lot of basements have very stale air.

Jack, maybe you can install a circulation system to move fresher air into the basement, and stale air out.