Law?

[Zephyr]

The supervisor for our local reptile show says it's illegal to buy, trade, possess, or sell garter snakes and there's a $1000 fine for it here in the states.
Where did she get this from?! I've checked out the laws for the US and for Michigan, and I just can't find anything stating this!
Any one know of anything like this?

[snakeman]

Most states do prohibit any sale of native herps.Sirtilis is native to just about every state.Usually the laws are written ********. so if you are in a state that prohibits the keeping of sirtilis you cannot own any sirtilis.Which includes say the CA redside.Even though it is not native to your state.Bunch of idiots!

[Zephyr]

Most states do prohibit any sale of native herps.Sirtilis is native to just about every state.Usually the laws are written ********. so if you are in a state that prohibits the keeping of sirtilis you cannot own any sirtilis.Which includes say the CA redside.Even though it is not native to your state.Bunch of idiots!
Hmm.
So would Thamnophis elegans or marcianus be excluded here?

[ssssnakeluvr]

depends on where you live as to the laws regarding garters, very few laws on them....some are just dumb..like can't own sirtalis sirtalis when it is one of the most common ones...some are protected in states due to very small ranges...even if the overall range is big..... that person probably don't know what they are talking about......garters are one of the most common snakes around. best thing for you to do is look up on line the state wildlife people and look at state regs.....then you will know exactly what your states laws are.

[Zephyr]

depends on where you live as to the laws regarding garters, very few laws on them....some are just dumb..like can't own sirtalis sirtalis when it is one of the most common ones...some are protected in states due to very small ranges...even if the overall range is big..... that person probably don't know what they are talking about......garters are one of the most common snakes around. best thing for you to do is look up on line the state wildlife people and look at state regs.....then you will know exactly what your states laws are.I checked with the DNR; there's no legislation regarding garter snakes aside from collection limits, and they don't have jurisdiction over the pet trade anyways...

[infernalis]

Here is where the laws get really "effed up" anyone can kill, chop, mutilate, run over, grind to pulp or shovel ANY garter snake EXCEPT Tetrataenia.

Doubtful that a pet Sirtalis will get you arrested unless the DEC officer has another reason to bust your nuggets.

Show promoters are scared of crossing lines.

They PROHIBIT sales of "bootleg" recordings at any "record/CD show" yet vendors sell piles of them all the time.

[drache]

I am not sure how to contribute to this
I don't think that garters are federally illegal to own or trade, other than specific federally protected species
I know nothing about Michigan

[ssssnakeluvr]

the only federally protected species is tetrataenia..... california also protects t gigas, the giant garter, very restricted range, disappearing. Kansas protects checkereds, range overlaps into a small portion of Kansas, Butler's are protected in some states, along with short headed garters.

[Snake lover 3-25]

so easterns are ok??? everywhere?

[ssssnakeluvr]

pretty much....depends on local laws for each state, most states won't let you breed and sell local species. you can generally catch and keep a few of them for personal pets with no problems. generally, you can keep, breed, and sell any species not native to your state

[mtolypetsupply]

If you go to kingsnake.com, there's a link on the homepage for the laws that takes you straight to the laws for your state. Here in NJ, it's one of the very few wildlife species that doesn't even require a permit, believe it or not!!!! Here in NJ they'd charge you for the air you breathe if they could get away with it!

[ssssnakeluvr]

If you go to kingsnake.com, there's a link on the homepage for the laws that takes you straight to the laws for your state. Here in NJ, it's one of the very few wildlife species that doesn't even require a permit, believe it or not!!!! Here in NJ they'd charge you for the air you breathe if they could get away with it!
SSSHHHHH don't give them any ideas!!!! :cool:

[Loren]

the only federally protected species is tetrataenia..... california also protects t gigas, the giant garter, very restricted range, disappearing.

Two striped are protected in Ca as well.

As Don said- find your local laws on the actual DNR or state website. Believe only the laws you can find and read with your own 2 eyes. Everyone else is usually mislead/misinformed. Never rely on word of mouth for regulations.

Any keeper of native herps should completely know, and keep up with, their local, state and federal laws on any herps they keep or hope to keep. Sounds like you do try to do this.

I occasionally have people tell me about this law or that law... but it dont mean anything if they cant produce a link. As for the show- well I guess you just wont be able to buy or sell garters there.

[guidofatherof5]

Here is where the laws get really "effed up" anyone can kill, chop, mutilate, run over, grind to pulp or shovel ANY garter snake EXCEPT Tetrataenia.

Radix and Eastern(sirtalis) and Ribbon(proximus) "are afforded no protection in Iowa"
Good thing there are a few of us who do offer them protection.

[Sid]

The supervisor for our local reptile show says it's illegal to buy, trade, possess, or sell garter snakes and there's a $1000 fine for it here in the states.
Where did she get this from?! I've checked out the laws for the US and for Michigan, and I just can't find anything stating this!
Any one know of anything like this?
Check this link, Kyle. http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Reptile_Regulations_by_State#MICHI GAN

In Michigan, the reg is that to posses Garter snkes for commercial use a permit is required.

[infernalis]

I know I have brought this up before, but here it is again.

D.E.C. and code enforcement have been at my house more than once, Code enforcement is clueless, and the game warden was very nice.

I was told [Face to face] that I am not violating any laws or ordinance by keeping Eastern (sirtalis sirtalis) as pets, even though the law says no gathering of native reptiles or amphibians.

The laws were written when people would gather mass quantities of native herps (mostly turtles) and sell them cheaply as disposable pets.

As I stated before, if the ranger REALLY wanted you for something, They could press the issue, and a judge would follow the letter of the law.

But you would have to anger someone FIRST, Look at the number of complaints that got filed about "Stunning blue garters" yet the ads still post frequently:(

[drache]

my sense is that a lot of these laws were put into place to get people who need to be gotten, and that they're really rather enforced on an "as needed" base - very inconsistently that is

[Stefan-A]

my sense is that a lot of these laws were put into place to get people who need to be gotten, and that they're really rather enforced on an "as needed" base - very inconsistently that is
Maybe. Or maybe they were put in place by people who want to make a statement and who simply don't care about the actual need or the consequences.

[guidofatherof5]

I think your right Rhea. Written because of the greed and stupidity of a few and inforced when the issued comes up on their radar. Don't get me wrong, I understand some of these law were passed soley for conservation and protection of these animals but the Government has a way of making "Blanket Policy" which unfortunately covers the wrong issues.
I have a good working relationship with the local Animal control officers and the State(DNR) officers. I always inform them when I come into possession of something I shouldn't have. At this point it hasn't come back to haunt me, YET.

[infernalis]

On a similar note, I forget the year, but a narcotics law was passed once to bring an end to opium trafficking from the orient through the United States, Lawmakers clustered together Opiates, Cocaine (And derivatives) along with cannabis!

During the sixties and seventies into most of the eighties possession of even a minuscule amount of marijuana would land an individual in a correctional facility doing hard time.

Now it gets an appearance ticket....

I know a guy up the road from me who got caught growing pot, a lot of it.. Never missed a day of work for it.

In summary, the laws may be in writing, but actual "enforcement" and subsequent "punishment" have changed a lot over the years producing a very gray area.

For a giggle, read this, it lists a bunch of nonsense laws that are in place...

Real Funny Dumb Laws in the United States (http://tjshome.com/dumblaws.php)

"A United States federal law makes it illegal to issue a fake Weather Bureau forecast"

Todays forecast is periods of light followed by scattered darkness in the evening:rolleyes: (Chevy Chase SNL)

[Zephyr]

Check this link, Kyle. http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Reptile_Regulations_by_State#MICHI GAN

In Michigan, the reg is that to posses Garter snkes for commercial use a permit is required.Hmm, that's what I thought. I'm using them personally, so no permit is required, right?
It also says that butler's are protected.
I sent an e-mail to the MDNR about this last spring; They aren't.

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol wow wierd laws!!!

[adamanteus]

You want weird laws? Try the UK....
In York, it is the law that you must shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow if you see him out at a certain time of day! I forget what times these are... so I shoot them anyway!

[adamanteus]

In Cheshire it is still the law that you must practice the long bow for one hour on a Sunday.

[adamanteus]

Impersonating a Chelsea Pensioner is still considered treason and is punishable by death.

[Stefan-A]

We have tons of dumb laws, but there's nothing funny about them.

[adamanteus]

In the UK it is llegal to eat Mouse Pie on Christmas Day!

[infernalis]

Kidney pie should be illegal every day.

[adamanteus]

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament.

[adamanteus]

In Liverpool it is illegal fo a woman to go topless, unless she works in a tropical fish shop!

[adamanteus]

A pregnant woman may legally remove a policemans helmet and urinate in it!

[adamanteus]

Although in Indonesia it's probably worse...
The punishment for masturbation is decapitation!

[adamanteus]

And in France it is illegal to name a pig 'Napoleon'.

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow ok you win lol:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament.
so is the punishment life????????

[Loren]

so is the punishment life????????
I was trying to think of a good one for that- great Job :D

[adamanteus]

Silly isn't it? I believe the punishment is given to the next of kin...... plus the 'perpetrator' would be buried in a paupers grave (non consecrated).

[infernalis]

Although in Indonesia it's probably worse...
The punishment for masturbation is decapitation!


Ah, nevermind......:rolleyes:

[Loren]

yeah, I thought of something for that one too... but nevermind me as well

[ssssnakeluvr]

yea.....I could come up with some good ones....but i thought better of it!! :cool:

[infernalis]

That law must scare shampoo manufacturers.

[Lori P]

Omg James, thanks for the giggles this morning!! I think my favorite is the policeman's hat!!

[mtolypetsupply]

I've heard about USDA permits, and have tried wading through the gobs of governmental BS, and FINALLY found a document that seems helpful.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/downloads/aw/awlicreg.pdf

[drache]

thanks Stephi
that's useful info

[infernalis]

Yes Thanks, That is some very useful information.

[brain]

You want weird laws? Try the UK....
In York, it is the law that you must shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow if you see him out at a certain time of day! I forget what times these are... so I shoot them anyway!

ROTFLMA toooo funny.:D:D:D

Wait wheres my bow ....

[bkhuff1s]

Great Thread, anyone know anything about Missouri?

[Snake lover 3-25]

we were having a discussion in class today and my teacher told us that his dog bit one of his neighbors on the leg and the lady tried to sue them because she was "unable" to have sex for 2 weeks!!!!!!!:eek: is this crazy or what???

[ssssnakeluvr]

we were having a discussion in class today and my teacher told us that his dog bit one of his neighbors on the leg and the lady tried to sue them because she was "unable" to have sex for 2 weeks!!!!!!!:eek: is this crazy or what???
jeez.....well.....could depend on where she was bitten :rolleyes: probably a bunch of crap tho....I doubt it would hold up in court....

[Elliot]

we were having a discussion in class today and my teacher told us that his dog bit one of his neighbors on the leg and the lady tried to sue them because she was "unable" to have sex for 2 weeks!!!!!!!:eek: is this crazy or what???


You can sue for anything now. It's pathetic.

[ssssnakeluvr]

yes it is...... was listening to a radio news show.....dumb lawyer went to a concert, had a few beers, went to the bathroom, mens was closed for repairs, had to use a women's bathroom...sued the venue for having to use the women's bathroom and the concession that sold him the beer.....judge threw out both cases and fined him $2000 on each for filing frivolous law suits!!!!! bout time!!!! :cool:

[Snake lover 3-25]

bout time!!!! :cool: yes yes it is!!!!!!

[drache]

you never know
a friend of mine got landed with a breaking, entering, and rape charge, because his dog entered an open yard containing a bitch in heat with predictable results, and at the first trial the verdict went in favour of the bitch (her humans, that is)
good reason to opt for spay/neuter

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow that's crazy...... what people sue for these days..... it's just insane..... and what they can get away with.... well that's even worse:(

[Brunok9]

Its illegal to own any wild caught amphibian/reptile in michigan.
I was asked to release my wood frogs because they were wild caught by the school..which is why I say I bought them.

[mtolypetsupply]

:mad:
jeez.....well.....could depend on where she was bitten :rolleyes: probably a bunch of crap tho....I doubt it would hold up in court....
True story, long one made short...

Friend of mine had a great dane, neighbor came over to the yard where hubby was, asked repeatedly to see it, until he acquiesced.

Hubby brought out the dane, told (female) neighbor not to approach fast, and not to touch the dog's ears.

Neighbor reached out to pet dog, she went straight for ears.

Dane bit her arm, and she ended up with 15 stitches.

She sued, including "negative impact on sex life" as part of complaint.

Due to "high/low" settlement agreement, court had to award minimum of $35k.

Friend had to get rid of dog and pay a great deal more in homeowner's insurance.

I hate people, sometimes. :mad:

[drache]

whoever thinks that people are more rational than animals is greatly deluded
true - some are, but fewer than you'd think, and often just by a margin

[ssssnakeluvr]

:mad:


I hate people, sometimes. :mad:
me too!!! but I loooooooooooooooove kicking their butts at work!!!!! :cool:

[infernalis]

whoever thinks that people are more rational than animals is greatly deluded
true - some are, but fewer than you'd think, and often just by a margin

Bravo Rhea:D

[snakeman]

:mad:
True story, long one made short...

Friend of mine had a great dane, neighbor came over to the yard where hubby was, asked repeatedly to see it, until he acquiesced.

Hubby brought out the dane, told (female) neighbor not to approach fast, and not to touch the dog's ears.

Neighbor reached out to pet dog, she went straight for ears.

Dane bit her arm, and she ended up with 15 stitches.

She sued, including "negative impact on sex life" as part of complaint.

Due to "high/low" settlement agreement, court had to award minimum of $35k.

Friend had to get rid of dog and pay a great deal more in homeowner's insurance.

I hate people, sometimes. :mad:
I see this one totally different.He knew he had a dog that has been aggressive before.He should have never let anybody near it.The same reason I never let any kids handle my snakes.Snakes bite.Even the tamest snakes.My huge melanistic that don has now is puppy dog tame.One day I let my nephew hold her and it bit him.You can't trust animals around strange people.

[Loren]

Well, my opinion is a combination of Tom and Stephi's posts- people are stupid and sue for stupid things... and win- SO, we need to think for the stupid people, and protect ourselves by being very careful who is allowed near our animals, and which ones. I rarely let people hold snakes(even super harmless ones) at public presentations for this reason.

[infernalis]

Think about the liability nightmares I have every summer:eek:

Every time someone gets mangled, I wonder how long before I hear from the lawyers.

Concerning the animals, we don't allow many people to even enter our home.....