Thamnophis Christmas Curse

[Zephyr]

I checked on my 3 easterns today... I moved them to the basement to get ready for brumation... All 3 of the females I had raised from babies were dead. The had water, a hide everything- I just don't know what I did wrong.
This is just the worst week for everyone. T.T

[olive oil]

So sorry Kyle :(

[adamanteus]

Kyle, that's terrible. I'm so sorry.

[drache]

oh no, Kyle
I am so sorry, you too have been afflicted
what a capital bummer

[infernalis]

Condolences Kyle..... It sucks.

[count dewclaw]

I'm so sorry about your loss, that stinks.

[reptileparadise]

O my god, thats terrible!
Sorry for your loss mate!

Any ideas on what might have gone wrong?

[olive oil]

Is it normal to lose snakes in the winter???

[reptileparadise]

It happens...Its nature...

[Stefan-A]

Sorry about your loss, Kyle.

[snakeman]

Healthy snakes don't just die from brumation.I have had temps drop below 30.I have had ones that spill thier waterbowl and turn the whole container moldy.Had to have been something wrong with them.

[Sputnik]

That's such sad news. I'm so sorry, Kyle. :(

[reptile3]

Oh Kyle, I am so sorry to hear this about your snakes.. my condolences

[ssssnakeluvr]

Healthy snakes don't just die from brumation.I have had temps drop below 30.I have had ones that spill thier waterbowl and turn the whole container moldy.Had to have been something wrong with them.
it's not unusual to lose a snake or 2 in brumation, healthy ones. My coast garter that I have had for 5 years and was in great health died for no apparent reason..

sorry for you loss Kyle....sucks....sounds like lots of us are losing them this christmas...:(

[Lori P]

Oh man Kyle, I'm so so sorry. I just don't even know what else to say.

[infernalis]

Great gifts from "santa" huh?

[jitami]

Kyle, I am so very sorry.... :( :( :(

[adamanteus]

Healthy snakes don't just die from brumation.

Despite the risk of being 'controversial', I must agree with Tom on this.
Although it is not unusual to lose the odd snake in captive brumation, we shouldn't consider it to be acceptable. There are still great gaps in our knowledge and understanding of these animals. I don't believe a healthy snake would die in brumation in 'optimum conditions' in the wild. I think we need to constantly reassess and question our husbandry techniques, to better provide for our charges.

[infernalis]

Well said James...

[Zephyr]

Well... My parents offered to help make things better... Tomorrow I think we're going to buy a big 4' rubbermaid bin, hack the front of it into a viv and set it up for the remaining snakes.
I really miss Fatty though but... This new little red-sider seems to be her reincarnation... >>

[Aundrea]

Ohh gosh Kyle im so so sorry about your loss!! :(:( That is just such sad news:(

[Stefan-A]

The problem with the idea of "optimum conditions" is that it doesn't exist in the wild. In the wild half the snakes can die during brumation, so brumation does beat the crap out of the snakes in the wild, too.

Not much of this has anything to do with what happens to our snakes in captivity. We can, at least in principle, control the humidity and the temperature, draft, access to water, we can influence the parasite load, the diet and to some extent the general health of the snake (we can't do anything about the genes, though), just to name a few of the factors that are bound to influence the snakes' chances of survival. Still, there are always things we could do better.

[adamanteus]

The problem with the idea of "optimum conditions" is that it doesn't exist in the wild.

Such conditions do (or should, at least) exist in a captive situation though.

[infernalis]

I think that we (The snake loving people) are just now beginning to take Thamnophis seriously enough to actually study them.

There are countless "experts" on Boids and Corns/milks out there, since they have been perfecting their craft for years.

Only within the last decade have Thamnophis gained admiration and respect enough that people will seriously study all aspects of their existence, and with a "new" audience to share findings with, research is already taking place, both by experts and armatures alike.

Only a few years ago, Garter snakes were viewed as "disposable" pets that we got our kids on their tenth birthday and fed goldfish.

[Stefan-A]

Such conditions do (or should, at least) exist in a captive situation though.
We should definitely try to create those conditions.

Of course, I find it mildly amusing that one would try to create the optimal conditions for something, that is characterized by less than optimal conditions. Snakes brumate because that's the only way for them to have even a slim chance of survival.

[Snake lover 3-25]

so sorry kyle!!!!:(

[drache]

this epidemic of deaths is kind of freaking me out
last year I had a several deaths in my collection around the same time and ended up feeling that even if I didn't know what it was there still had to have been something I did wrong
now that this many people have lost snakes I feel like I've been spared
we don't know - brumation is probably one of natures way to sort out the strong from the not so strong and perhaps "not so strong" is all it takes

[Sid]

So sorry about your loss, Kyle. It really sucks! My favorite male Eastern escaped while in burmation....hoping he will show up.

[guidofatherof5]

Kyle, very sorry to hear about your loss. It's always a tough thing but at this time of the year it's even harder.

[gregmonsta]

Really sorry to hear that.

[snakeman]

What were the conditions the snakes were in.like where they were brumating.How long have they been brumating.Any little detail should help.my snakes are in the basement.I have mine in rubbermaid bins.Temps are 50-55.Thye are on papertowels with a waterbowl large enough for them to soak in and a hide.I cover them with a blanket so no light gets in.I only brumate for eight weeks no more.I never check on them.Even when they spill their water bowl.I have never seen any ill effects.Now if I can just keep them alive when they are out of brumation.This is the first year I brumated snakes together.I have my males in one bin and females in another.

[infernalis]

So sorry about your loss, Kyle. It really sucks! My favorite male Eastern escaped while in burmation....hoping he will show up.


Yeow Sid, Hope he turns up for you.

[anji1971]

So sorry for your loss, Kyle. :(:(
I've never brumated my snakes, and this doesn't make me any more keen to try it.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

awwwwe :(

I just peeked in on my brumating garters for the first time in a month today.... I keep a jug down there full of water and the oly time I disturb them is when the water needs refilled. I have their tanks stacked in the corner and theyre all covered with a blanket and every so often I just peer in on the water. Luckily, I've not had any incidents yet.... but I did pull a female eastern up 2 weeks after putting her down there after deciding that she had not put on quite enough weight after birthing to endure the 3 month period. They are coming up in a month or so.

[snakeman]

You guys got me freaking out also.I pulled my snakes out 5 days early.I I pulled them out because it was 60 where I was brumating them anyway.So I put them on my basement floor where it is about 65.I put the males in with the females.Two het albino flames are already locked up.Fingers are crossed.

[infernalis]

You guys got me freaking out also.I pulled my snakes out 5 days early.I I pulled them out because it was 60 where I was brumating them anyway.So I put them on my basement floor where it is about 65.I put the males in with the females.Two het albino flames are already locked up.Fingers are crossed.


Put me on the list, I'll go fill out the loan papers in the morning:D