Garter snake enclosure size?

[Lee]

My garter (about 2 feet) is in a 20 gallon tank, I don't think this is large enough to house him. I'm interested in building a decent sized light weight enclosure for him. I was planning for the base, and 3 walls to be plywood. The front wall to be some sort of plexiglass door and the top being a screen to provide ventilation. Does 3ft long, 2 feet wide, and 2 feet tall sound like a good size? and maybe being able to house another in there well? plenty of hides etc.. How does this sound to all of you? No, I won't be using under tank heating pads, just an overhead light if anything. Although I've kept him 2 years without any heating like that..

[Beautifylgirl]

Personally building your own sounds good. I would make it 3x3x3 just because I'm lazy and wouldn't want to mess up cutting the 2 feet sections. Make sure you don't have too much ventilation with the screen top and make sure it's fine (small) enough so the snake can't get through.
I have a 36inch garter and she's housed in a 46 gallon aquarium. I'm guessing it's 4x2x3 which allows her a lot of room to move around. I think the snake would be happy with being able to stretch out and not touch the sides of the enclosure.
Sorry if this post makes little to no sense, I've worked 34 hours the last 3 days and slept 3 hours last night. I'm a little sleepy :)
Good luck
Brittany

[Lee]

4X3X2 = about 180 gallons. According to my aquarium calculator.. 3 feet sticks out more than I would like, so I wanted 2ft, just better. Height yea it could be done at 3 ft, but its a bit over the top, its for 1 snake, maybe a second. Yea the ventilation would be fine enough to prevent escape. Whats wrong with ventilation? My current tank is just screen top, with a few books to cover it. I can always make the screen part a bit smaller than the actual lid, no big deal.
Would plywood be ok? I would have the floor covered and a bit of the wall to prevent too much absorption, but I don't think it would be a problem, especially if it was outside.

[GarterGuy]

Sounds like that'd be great as far as size for your garter. My rule of thumb(but everyone is different) is the snake should be able to stretch full lenght and not touch the sides of the tank, but more is always better....just as long as it doesn't get too big and he ends up getting lost in it. As far as ventilation......good ventilation is very important, and a screen top should be fine. Just make sure it's escape proof. As far as the wood, it should also be fine, but you'd want to treat it with something, since you'll be needing to clean it and such and you don't want the snakes waste soaking into the wood, or any water for that matter. Plain old polyurothane(sp?...it's late;) ) works well. Two or three coats will completely seal it up, you can also seal the joints in the corners with aquarium sealant. Hope this helps.
Roy

[Cazador]

Hi Lee,

The 20 gallon tank is more than enough to raise a single garter snake, but you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of it, if you keep your snake in a larger enclosure. Keeping a 2' snake in a 1' x 1' enclosure is possible, but they're going to spend most of their time curled up and not being active. They won't be very interesting that way, but it's possible... kindof like housing prisoners of war in boxes in Vietnam. As you increase the size of your enclosure (and add more props), the snake will become more active and explore more. A pen with more floorspace also allows you to temporarily add new things... like a second, large water container, a hollow log, a rock pile, different vegetation, etc.

Floorspace is the most important, and even with a 1' high enclosure, you could add props, like wood or plants, that allow your snake to climb. The floor area will also stay warmer in a 1' tall enclosure, since heat rises. Then you could put a second 3x2x1' enclosure on top of the first one and use the same amount of floorspace. I'm certainly not bashing the idea of a 2' tall cage... just offering another opinion. You'll be happy with the larger cage, either way, and your snakes will become even more active.

Rick

[KITKAT]

I like keeping garters in pairs, in aquaria that are "40 Long".

The 40 long is the same floor space as a 55 gallon tank, but is not quite as tall (easier to get the basking spot warm with a lamp on the top screen), and somewhat cheaper if you can find them in stock.

I don't go for anything fancy looking... I use aspen bedding, a tree branch for climbing, a ceramic bowl for water, and a plastic dish (flat with 1/2 inch sides) for non aquatic foodstuffs. (I feed live fish from the water dish and change it the next day)

[Lee]

I thought I would update, got carpet laid in the room where the snake is housed, moved him into a 10g and some fish (they needed the room) into the 20 gallon the snake lived in. Built a custom stand and the top just needs the aquarium to be finished. The bottom contains my 2 fish tanks, top will hold the garter enclosure. The tank measures 5X2X2 ft, 150 gallons if I used water in it. Got the bottom and 3 sides in, top and front will be done hopefully tommorow. Any idea if carpet can be used as the substrate? We got some leftover carpet so I wonder if I can use it to save money. I've already put 150$ into building supplies etc.

[rwgsnakes]

here are some pics of an enclosure i made for my garters when they get bigger.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/tanks%20and%20decor/100_1777-1.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/tanks%20and%20decor/Homemadetank.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/tanks%20and%20decor/2tankpic.jpg

[Cazador]

I think carpet would be okay while you're looking for something else, but it might become difficult to maintain over the long run. It would hold the odor from their waste and become a breeding ground for mold, mildew, etc. Also, make sure the carpet doesn't have a strong resin smell. Carpet glue contains benzene, which is a known carcinogen.

[Lee]

Figurd carpet wouldn't be best, I'll try to find a cheap alternative that looks good. Maybe some bark type stuff? Idk Rwg nice enclusure! How many garters you gonna put in there? They will be very happy with the levels!

[rwgsnakes]

thanks, im going to have two in there.

i still need to put the pieces of plexi glass on the front but it will be another year or so before anything goes in there.

if you want to use carpet you should use repti carpet, its not costly...normal carpet will often have fibers that can eritate the snakes if they get under the scales like if a snake curls up, they could get under.

i know some one who uses that reptile bark/mulch stuff for a ribbon-just about the same as a garter- and he likes it and has had no problems.

you can use aspen, but they borrow like there is no tomorrow in there, soil--which is what i use-- is nice and natural looking, you can also grow live plants in there.

[Cazador]

Hi Justin,

Soil has some drawbacks that are uniquely associated with captivity, so it's not generally recommended. Have a look at this thread for more details (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/491-best-substrate-3.html#post7464). Personally, I love the way live plants look in a vivarium, but they might work better if they were potted.

Isn't the repti-carpet very similar to astroturf? If so, astroturf can be purchased from hardware stores for a fraction of the price. About $10 will buy about two yards (meters) of astroturf. Just a cheaper alternative.

Rick

[drache]

the repti-carpet I've seen is more like a thick layer of some felted material, whereas the astro turf I've seen has fibers sticking up - more like regular carpet

[Cazador]

Thanks Rhea. I guess I was thinking of something different.

Rick

P.S. Congratulations on your upcoming 9th birthday ;).

[drache]

Thanks
I'm much better at having a nine year old birthday now, than I was, when I was nine

[sschind]

I love playing around with old aquariums so my next project will be a 29 gallon laid on its side giving a terrarium of 30X18x12. I plan on two 4" screen panels on each end of the front of the tank (which is the old top of the aquarium) for ventilation, and a 22" fold down door in the middle. The first ones will be for my Arizona Mt. Kings but if they turn out and I decide to keep my garters I'll make others for them. I might go with 37 gallon just to give me another few inches of depth but the cost goes up significantly if I can't get them on sale. I could go with 30 or 38 gallon tanks for more length but the depth will be cut back and with the 30" tanks I can get 12 of them stacked in an 8' space.

My last project (pictured) was a 55 laid on its side with one side removed and replaced with screen. It has a removable divider and two flip down doors. It's heated with a single 11" wide heat tape down the center which can be moved to the end if the cage is ever used as a single large tank which it probably will be once my Bullsnake gets bigger.

Removing the side is a pain in the butt though and that is why I am going to experiment with the front ventilation. I won't be able to use a heat light but my goal is to have them stackable with as little space as possible between them so I was planning on using UTH anyway. Also the 55 is just too heavy and I only have the Bullsnake that will outgrow the 29 (or 37s) anyway so I figured why go through the hassle of having a removable divider. I've also done a couple of 75's this way.

Steve

[adamanteus]

Couple of questions Steve.... If you remove the side from a glass aquarium does it not weaken the structure of it, making it liable to collapse? Also, if you're using aquariums, stacked one on top of another, and using heat mats, do you not find that a lot of heat is directed from above into the tank below? Making accurate temperature control difficult? Maybe this could be avoided by using tin-foil (cooking foil) between the heat source and the glass bottom on the tank. How do you fix your lighting to a glass aquarium on it's side? I like your ideas Steve, I'd like to know how you make it work though.

[Lee]

Got front and some of the top done tonight, gotta add the screen and the hinges/latches and caulk the bits. Should have it up wednesday or thursday!

[sschind]

James:

I have never experienced any structural instability when removing the sides. I leave the framework intact so that keeps it pretty sturdy and the lip around the inside of the top (now front) frame gives me an excellent base for the door. I usually run a 2" piece of glass along the bottom as a litter dam, then I cut another piece for the door and use a flexible aquarium lid hinge. It works pretty well if the door is not too heavy. On the 75 gallon ones I did the doors are 1/8" think glass and are about 22X15 and they do sag a bit so I think that would be the max size. I have found some solid plastic hinges though that would take care of that problem but they are only 12" long so I would need to align 2 of them for a wider tank.

As far as the heat goes, I will have about 4 inches between the tanks to allow for lighting so I don't think there will be too much heat transfer from upper cages to lower ones. I will be using T5 lighting so I might not need the full 4 inches but if I use 2x3 lumber for the racks and allow for a bit of space I think the 4" should be OK. If everything goes as planned I should be able to get 12 tanks in a space of 8 feet by 5 feet by 20 inches. The 5 feet would be from the bottom of the first row to the top of the 4th row so the viewing area should be rather nice and compact. Of course I have a tendency to try to cut things very close so things may not go as planned.

I'll probably use 4" wide heat tape and I might even put a plywood shelf on the racks so that should cut down on transfer even more.

I will try to take some closeups of the tanks I have done already to give you a better idea.

Thanks for bringing it up though, sometimes I don't do enough planning and I get half way through a project and realize I forgot to allow for this or that and wind up starting all over. This will be my 4th or 5th set of cage designs. Most of them don't get through the prototype stage because I usually think of something else in the middle of it all.

Steve

[zirliz]

Just curious but how big a tank can house 4 I'm gonna be moving my garters into their real tanks soon I hope for now they're travelling with me twice yearly I want to leave them in pairs but set similar to pet shops to save space, any ideas? As in put partitions between pairs

[adamanteus]

It sounds like you've got it all pretty much sorted Steve. I hope you didn't think I was being critical. I was just curious how you'd make it work. I understand now, I'd still like to see the photos though!

[sschind]

Not at all James, Like I said, sometimes I don't spend enough time planning or I overlook a small detail and it screws everything up. I like to keep all non-habitable space to a minimum so a minor miscalculation in dimension can screw me up royally sometimes. It takes an outsiders view to point out problems occasionally.

I will work on the pictures.

Steve

[rwgsnakes]

Cazador,

This is what repti carpet looks like, just so you can get an idea.
:)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/ribbonsnakeyy/Bruno/take.jpg

[Cazador]

Thanks Justin :). It looks nice.

Rick

[Lee]

Hi, was busy Wed/Thurs and sick Fri/Sat wasn't able to do anything, just got the top finished up and its set on the stand now, needs to dry and stuff though. Had to hurry it even though I'm still sick, its starting to snow. Only needs the latches now and I'll be ready to go! Pictures up in a bit.

[Lee]

KK heres the pictures, first picture is of the bottom, used to hold my fish food and a 20 long and a 10g. Second picture is the tank, compared with a 16oz can of rockstar energy drink along with a recliner. its 5X2X2, the plexiglass is 4X2, biggest they had that had a reasonable price. Nearly ready for snake!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/CapAnt53/newcage1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/CapAnt53/newcage2.jpg

[Cazador]

Have you decided how you're going to heat it yet?

[Lee]

Have you decided how you're going to heat it yet?
I haven't used any heating on him in the last 2 years I've kept him, if I do anything, it will be a simple lamp of some sorts. In the summer, it gets very warm in the house and I don't have AC so he should be happy. :)

[Lee]

K got it all set up. Came down to needing substrate, latches, and weather stripping to make the top flush. Ended up getting some 4$ bark at home depot (meant for landscaping) or spending 30$ for fluffy papery stuff that I used to use, or 60$ for petco's bark (needed a lot). Got its water dish in with a few fish, got some branches from outside and some rocks and his old pot and he's exploring.
Question arises is, can I have more than one garter in the enclosure? I'm hoping to add a female if possible or another male.

[Cazador]

5x2x2' is more than enough room for a few garters. They'll love it, and I bet they'll be very active with that much space to explore. The only problem might be catching them ;). Can't wait to see it in use.

Rick

[Lee]

5x2x2' is more than enough room for a few garters. They'll love it, and I bet they'll be very active with that much space to explore. The only problem might be catching them ;). Can't wait to see it in use.

Rick
He's been all over, even eating some fish within the first few hours. Catching isn't really a problem, don't really have a need to anyways. Now to find a garter or 2 :)