Migration study! :D

[Zephyr]

A friend and I might have gotten approval to do a study of the local garter migration routes. (He needed to get a science fair project approved, seeing as he's in Honor's Bio.) So, let's hope he gets the final sign-off! :D

[jitami]

Very nice Kyle! Good luck with the final approval!

[reptile3]

awesome! good luck!!:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

that sounds like fun!!!! good luck!! would like to migrate out there and help!! :cool:

[mtolypetsupply]

I'm so happy for you, that sounds so exciting! :)

Can't wait to hear all the details!

[Snaky]

That sounds interesting, let's hope it gets approved and then keep us posted on your findings! ;)

[adamanteus]

Good luck, Kyle. Hope you get it!

[infernalis]

Good luck Kyle:D

[Zephyr]

Guess what guys...
IT'S APPROVED!!! :D

My friend will be submitting it as an individual project at our school fair (I already did mine last year etc) and we'll be submitting it as a team project at Cobo Hall. I'm pretty sure we'll be going to the international fair next year. :)

[crzy_kevo]

sounds awesome kyle keep us posted on this :D

[Aundrea]

Wow Kyle thats great!!!!!! :D

[Snake lover 3-25]

congrats:D def. keep this updated:D hope to hear more about it:D

[Zephyr]

Yep; it'll be from Early April to Early October. AKA garter season. :)

[olive oil]

Yay Kyle. That is so cool B)

[adamanteus]

That's great news, Kyle. Enjoy it.
I'm not jealous... I don't want the opportunity to study Garters in the wild, no, not me!:rolleyes:

[reptile3]

Exciting... glad it was approved, please update us!

[Stefan-A]

It's a great opportunity, Kyle. Congratulations. :)

"Unlike" James, I am jealous. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a great time. Nice job, Kyle.

[Zephyr]

Yeah, my partner will be taking all the credit for the school project... But once we hit Cobo Hall it'll count as a team project and I'm 98% we'll be going to the ISEF.

[ssssnakeluvr]

That's great news, Kyle. Enjoy it.
I'm not jealous... I don't want the opportunity to study Garters in the wild, no, not me!:rolleyes:
wow.....I can smell the sarcasm clear over the pond here!!!! LOL!!!!!

have fun and keep us posted!!!!

[Zephyr]

wow.....I can smell the sarcasm clear over the pond here!!!! LOL!!!!!

have fun and keep us posted!!!!Well, it shouldn't be more than I'd usually do. (Running around grabbing snakes, lol.) But this time it'll be more organized and we'll be taking data.

[Sid]

Congratulation, Kyle. I'm look forward to the report from your study.

[Zephyr]

Alright, we have the okay. The project begins when the snakes come out of brumation. :P
We'll be recording the time, weather, location, gender, and size of the snakes we catch. We'll be using maps weekly to map gender and population densities as well.

[gregmonsta]

Excellent news :D ... all the best for the study :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

awesome can't wait to see some results!:D

[Quibble]

im excited to see results too! its even more intense knowing this study is happening in michigan!

will you be observing anything in the st. clair county area? if so i know of a few hot spots for garters!

[MasSalvaje]

Nice work!

Let us see how it is going from time to time!

-Thomas

[Zephyr]

Alright, I've got maps ready!
All we need are snakes now. :P

[Sid]

Looking forward to the data, Kyle.

[jitami]

Good luck Kyle! I, too, am looking forward to seeing the results!

[Zephyr]

THE FIRST DATA IS IN!!!

A real shocker; Our first snake was a baby that we dug out of decaying logs with NO DEN IN SIGHT!!! I think that younger garters may just find somewhere to chill for the winter if the den isn't close enough or they can't make it to one.

The next two snakes came as surprises; one I couldn't catch but saw beneath a log (I believe it brumated there, even more interesting because the log dipped below the water level of the area!) and the other my friend grabbed while it was out and about.

:)

[guidofatherof5]

Very interesting. Keep us informed. Thanks

[ssssnakeluvr]

very nice!!! definitely keep us posted!

[anji1971]

Fascinating stuff, Kyle.:):cool:
This study could uncover some very interesting findings! I'm really looking forward to further updates.

[drache]

very cool
the baby is particularly interesting, because from what I read, apparently they don't go to the same places as the adults to brumate

[Zephyr]

very cool
the baby is particularly interesting, because from what I read, apparently they don't go to the same places as the adults to brumate
Which is exactly what I was thinking!
And, with some more data, it might be found that one of the primary reasons garters congregate to brumate is to BREED.

[Zephyr]

Without further ado, the first two snakes of the season:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3668/img0174q.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9190/img0180oqe.jpg

[drache]

exciting
nice photos too - thanks

[jitami]

Good stuff, Kyle. Definitely keep us posted on your progress!

[Zephyr]

Another fine day of snake hunting! We officially tallied 24 snakes!
I made a few observations and conclusions as well.(Some of which are obvious, but now we have official data. :) )
1. During the spring season, more males are out than females.
2. Garter snakes can brumate in both stone dens and dead logs/stumps.
3. **Female garter snakes CAN be injured during breeding frenzies!
4. **The most common size of male garter snake out-and-about at this time of year is between 18 and 21 inches long.

Some possible theories...
1. One of the main reasons garters congregate to brumate in the fall is to breed.
2. Young garter snakes do not have to brumate with the adults. Likewise, some adults do not brumate with other adults.

[Snake lover 3-25]

omg 24!!!:eek: very neat!!!

[Zephyr]

Yep, and the new data we got last Friday, which is even more conclusive, tallied us at 29. :)

[guidofatherof5]

[quote=Zephyr;106331]
3. **Female garter snakes CAN be injured during breeding frenzies!
quote]

I have to ask, what injuries?

[Zephyr]

[quote=Zephyr;106331]
3. **Female garter snakes CAN be injured during breeding frenzies!
quote]

I have to ask, what injuries?
Cloacal.
We found two females bleeding directly at the vent. Both of which had been chased and, I guess you could say "raped", by males. I have a video of one of these occurrences, but you can't really see the snakes.

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow that sucks....

[Zephyr]

A lot of interesting observations... It seems that garter activity is based solely on temperature.
The fasting that occurs in captive specimens may be triggered by the light cycle, however, I think there may be another factor involved.
More later.

[ssssnakeluvr]

its not uncommon for females to bleed from the breeding process....male hemipenes has little spikes on them....kinda helps keep the male....um....in the female until the deed is done......

[Zephyr]

its not uncommon for females to bleed from the breeding process....male hemipenes has little spikes on them....kinda helps keep the male....um....in the female until the deed is done......
Her cloaca was ripped apart.
It was definitely a hardcore snake orgy. lol
I remember looking over and seeing tails flying and liquid along with them. XD

[ssssnakeluvr]

oh jeez...feel bad for her...but nature isn't always nice......I watched a bunch of male mallard ducks gang rape a female.....:(

[guidofatherof5]

I watched a bunch of male mallard ducks gang rape a female.....:(

Don,
Do you know if the duck reported it? I hope you went to the authorities and gave a statement. Citizen involvement is one of the real deterrents to crime. Otherwise, this sort of thing just keeps happening.:D
You can tell I've been a cop way too long.:D

[k2l3d4]

Don,
Do you know if the duck reported it? I hope you went to the authorities and gave a statement. Citizen involvement is one of the real deterrents to crime. Otherwise, this sort of thing just keeps happening.:D
You can tell I've been a cop way too long.:D


LOL LOL LOL :D Oh that is too good;)

[ssssnakeluvr]

Don,
Do you know if the duck reported it? I hope you went to the authorities and gave a statement. Citizen involvement is one of the real deterrents to crime. Otherwise, this sort of thing just keeps happening.:D
You can tell I've been a cop way too long.:D
thats too funny!!!!!

[Serpentine99]

I find this breeding theory very interesting. The fact that only the adults brumate together means that in the Garter world if you can't breed you're an Outsider. They adults would probably just eat the young anyway after the exhaustion of mating.

[guidofatherof5]

Just a thought as to why the babies don't brumate with the adults is they may not be able to make the long trip back to the den that first year. It may also be easier to find a place below the frost line when you're very small. Cracks in the soil, smaller rodent dens, etc.
Finding a brumation site in your local area also eliminates much of your exposure time to preditors. When your at the bottom of the food chain the less time you spend advertising yourself as a "Happy Meal" lets you survive. Just a thought.

[Zephyr]

Just a thought as to why the babies don't brumate with the adults is they may not be able to make the long trip back to the den that first year. It may also be easier to find a place below the frost line when you're very small. Cracks in the soil, smaller rodent dens, etc.
Finding a brumation site in your local area also eliminates much of your exposure time to preditors. When your at the bottom of the food chain the less time you spend advertising yourself as a "Happy Meal" lets you survive. Just a thought.
And a very good one indeed! :D
I've thought many times about how these babies could make a 2 mile trek following only pheromones, especially since I've seen them still at birthing sites in mid fall.

[Stefan-A]

It'll be interesting to follow the progress of this study. :)


To quote the 1985 recovery plan for the San Francisco garter:
Fitch (1965) found that males of the red-sided garter snake in Kansas moved an average of about 532 m and females about 347 m between their summer habitat and overwintering dens. Gregory and Stewart (1975) found that summer dispersal of the same subspecies in the Interlake region of Manitoba, Canada involved long distances ranging from 4.3 km to 17.7 km. The average distance moved in Manitoba was 10.7 km.

[Zephyr]

New data!
Big females like it HOT!!!
We found more 24" plus females out and about than ever!
And LOTS of babies!
Males seem to like things cooler.
ALSO.
I have found the reason for the success of the garter population at the estate to be the large amount of food available; snakes near the Rose Garden pond and lake have access to tadpoles and frogs en masse. Snakes at the garden plots and flood plains don't have access to either of these foods, so their diet consists almost entirely of worms! (I have a specimen of the prevalent worm species with me; I'm hoping to get it ID'd!)
The frog and toad diet-hypothesis is based on the large and condensed balls of food seen in the snakes from these area's stomachs. (AKA it must be tadpoles/frogs/toads.)
The worm diet is not an assumption; Several snakes from the flood plains puked over my friend and I's shirts. (Much to my delight and to his disdain.)

**EDIT- Using a UK site, I have ID'd the worm species as the chestnut worm, Lumbricus castaneus! I'd go so far as the make the assumption the garter snakes have a thing for all members of the genus Lumbricus.

[Snake lover 3-25]

neat thanks for the info!

[guidofatherof5]

Lumbricus castaneus Here's a photo. I was curious.
Lumbricus castaneus (http://www.nematodes.org/Lumbribase/Earthworms_in_Focus/Earthworms_in_Focus-Pages/Image23.html)

[Zephyr]

And for ID purposes...
This is probably THE best site on the net for worm ID info.
Earthworm guide | OPAL (http://www.opalexplorenature.org/?q=Earthwormguide)

[Stefan-A]

Thank you very much for the link. Very useful. :)

[Odie]

Young garter snakes do not have to brumate with the adults.
From what I have seen the first yearlings seem to stay were (Mom was when) they are born :)

[Odie]

From what I have seen the first yearlings seem to stay were (Mom was when) they are born :) unless they get Disturbed but I have only been looking not taking data :o

[Zephyr]

I guess it depends where they're born... We've only scratched the surface of the study so far.
However, the warmer weather definitely gets the babies out and about; before it hit 75 there were only adults and sexually mature males out.

[Zephyr]

Yesterday was possibly the most productive day yet!

First up, some pics of the many mini-ecos where we find garters:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4507/img0351vne.jpg
Fairlane Field
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2469/img0356tcc.jpg
Trees along the field (I was shocked when my friend grabbed a snake, I ran over, and a garter jumped 40 feet out that tree onto the ground in front of me!)
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9613/img0402n.jpg
Garden plots (We found 7 garters and 2 dekayis here!)
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2081/img0348c.jpg
University of Michigan Dearborn road side

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow

cool thanks for posting!!:D

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking spot. Good numbers.

I've never seen a T.volantis before! Did you get a picture?:D

Sorry for the feeble/lame latin translation.

[Zephyr]

Great looking spot. Good numbers.

I've never seen a T.volantis before! Did you get a picture?:D

Sorry for the feeble/lame latin translation.
The lamer part is that I actually understood the pun. lol

[Zephyr]

I would just like to say... I've never found so many snakes, so close, and so BIG anywhere before!
This last session was unbelievable! There were big females everywhere; all gravid too!
I feel truly blessed to leave near this place.

Also, check this out; Proof of close cohabitation between two species of snakes. They were on top of the cloth like this, basking. In my opinion, they seem to like this "cuddling." (This was the only group I got a pic of; the other groups broke up as soon as we found them!)
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1724/img0399.jpg