What kind of garter (if any)?

[deathwokclan]

So, I love snakes. But I have never had one, because I also keep rats and I know I can't handle feeding full-grown rodents (at least I know it before I get the snake, right?)

And then a friend pointed me towards garters, and I started doing research. It seems like most of them, if possible, SHOULD eat rodents, so maybe I won't wind up getting one, but on the chance that there's a kind out there that doesn't need them, I would love to have one.

So I ask your help. Any snakes you know of that would fit my situation?

It would be kept in my office (the dog never goes in that room), and room isn't a huge issue. I'd be fine feeding worms, fish, and pre-killed pinkies. I would also be able to do anything (supplements or anything) needing to be done to keep a snake healthy.

Anyone have suggestions? Or am I doomed to lurk on snake communities and oggle other peoples' pictures? :)

[Cazador]

Hi Emily,
Mice aren't "required" in a garter's diet. In fact, they're a mere supplement in a wild garter's diet, when they're included at all. Fish are another complete nutrition source. The downside is that garters on a diet of fish and worms have more watery and a bit more smelly feces. Growth rates are a bit faster when feeding rodents, and you have to feed (and clean) less often on a diet of rodents, but that's pretty much it.

Garters, however, are active and inquisitive, so I doubt they'll simply lie around on you when you're working. They're more likely to want to explore the room. With that said, there are individuals who seem content to just "hang out" with their owner, but garters aren't known for being lethargic. Friendly... yes. Lethargic... no.

Rick

[Stefan-A]

Rick, aren't amphibians actually the other complete nutrition source and the primary prey item in the wild for most garter species? Don't rodents de facto replace the amphibians as the complete nutrition source in captivity?

[Cazador]

Yes Stefan. Amphibians are one of the other "primary" complete nutrition sources, but in addition to fish, baby birds are occasionally taken. I think that rodents are often "chosen" over fish because they produce less watery and smelly feces, and don't have to be offered as frequently. I wouldn't want to suggest that a fish diet isn't complete or adequate, though... as long as people feed the right kind of fish (e.g. lacking thiaminase). Occasionally supplementing with vitamins/minerals is simply good advise regardless of the diet. Personally I treat worms as a treat, and a laxative in case the snakes haven't pooped lately :D.
Rick

[deathwokclan]

OK. That makes sense. I've just seen so many people feeding rodents - and wanting to switch to them - that I assumed they were the best choice. But that does make sense.

As far as the 'just hanging out' idea - I think I wasn't completely clear. The setup will be in my office, as far as 'hanging out' goes. As far as handling goes - I'm looking for a friendly snake that would be open to being taken out during bouts of writers' block, for more snake-on-person quality attention time.

EDIT: Which is to say, it would get active interaction suitable for an inquisitive snake. I get writers' block frequently. And, of course, even on days where there's no natural breaks - there would be time for attention. :)

I think cold medication is affecting my communication skills...

[Stefan-A]

Rick,
Ok. Still don't get the whole smelly feces thing. My snakes' feces don't smell regardless of what I feed them. It's not wishful thinking, either. I've asked others. ;)


Emily (right?),
Just don't expect the garter to enjoy that snake-on-person interaction. ;) They are quick little creatures, easily spooked and prone to flee when they get scared. Well, it's not as much "fleeing", as "launching themselves in a random direction". Hope you get a calm one. :)

Had a bit of a fever myself these last two days. Won't go into any details, but stupid things were said and done during that time.

[deathwokclan]

Hmm...*shrug* If said snake didn't want attention, they wouldn't have to get it. I'd be willing to do what said snake wanted - if that means lots of attention, that's fine! If it means not much attention - well, that's fine, too. It would seem that there's a lot of faulty info floating around the interwebs (not that I'm surprised at all!) but then, that's why I joined this community! Thanks for being so helpful, everyone.

Speaking of which, though, what DO they like, attention-wise? Do they like out-of-cage time? Handling at all? Separate snakey playpen?

And now, against my better judgement, I'ma go take some MORE cough medicine. *hack* Hope your fever gets better.

[GarterGuy]

It's pretty much like Rick (Cazador)had said, there will be individual snakes that prefer more handling time then others. As an example, I have two male Oregon Redspotteds (T.s.concinnus)....one is a complete wacko! If I walk past the cage, he just goes balistic trying to hide or "escape" me. Removing him from his tank for cleaning is....well let's call it an adventure.:D My other male is the complete opposite and often will climb out of the tank and into my hands and is even content enough to just "hang out" around or on me while I clean the tank out. One thing I can definitely recomend is to get captive bred animals. These should be more used to human contact and not be as flighty, but this is not a guarentee. Garters are active snakes, which means they always seem to be on the go and are not as prone to just curling up and hanging out like ratsnakes and kingsnakes.
Best bet is to get a nice captive bred animal, set it up in a nice sized cage that allows it plenty of room to "roam" and set it up nice and dynamic (with lots of hides, branches, plastic plants, ect), so that the snake has lots to "do" in the tank. I've found that snakes with well done tanks tend to handle nicer, 'cause they feel comfortable in their captive environment. When it comes right down to it though, snakes don't "tame", they're not like dogs or cats....they may habitualize to be handled and see it as a time to "get out" some, but that's really about it. I have some snakes now that I've had for over 15yrs. that are still kind of "wild".
Roy

[abcat1993]

I have a wild caught, and it is CRAZY! All it does if I try to pick it up is twirl it's tail so that when it pees or musks on me, it flies everywhere.
Yeah... it's disgusting
Just, don't get wild caught

[ClosedCasket88]

yes , definately get a captive bred one , although wild garters have always tourned out to be the best eaters .
my female W/c one from a couple months ago just scarfed up 2 unscented pinkies that my kingsnake wouldnt eat. i usualy have trouble feeding mice i always have to rub worms slime all over em and start by feedign a small bit of worm , then they take the pinkies .but wild caught garters always bring some sort of trouble : mites, ticks, worms, parasits and other funky stuff .

[ssssnakeluvr]

I've found that wandering garters are quite calm..even wild caught ones. May not be the prettiest garters, but do real well, have had many (many, many) of them over the years. They seem to enjoy handling also.

[suzoo]

I have a male T. radix (plains garter) that acts like Roy's, crazy/afraid if I walk past the tank. But in the same tank, the T. radix female (unrelated but from the same place) is just the opposite. She not only climbs on me as soon as I open the tank, but she won't get off me, and I have trouble putting her back in the tank, as she wants to stay with me. So you may want to handle the snakes until you find one you like, that also likes you to handle it.
On a side note, Gracie (female T. radix), knows me from everyone else, and does not like one of my daughters. She has never been aggressive toward me, but has struggled to get away from said daughter, everytime she's picked her up, and settles down as soon as I take her, but has bitten my daughter when she tried to take her back. This has gone on for 2 years! My daughter handles all the other snakes fine, Gracie just doesn't like her. I think it's funny, but odd. Anyone else have snakes that are particular like that? Or is Gracie just different?

[Tori]

Afraid I'm the only one that holds mine. It isn't that I wouldn't allow it, no one wants to! Go figure... My lizards lay all over my boyfriend and he thinks they are the coolest thing on earth, but he has no real interest in getting friendlier with the snakes. I have a subadult Eastern garter that has been my "baby" since he was born and he reaches up to be picked up while most of the others either run or take a nip to see if I'm eatable. Which is why I always wear gloves (don't laugh, that does NOT feel good). I take them off after they figure out I'm NOT eatable, which is pretty quickly.

[GarterGuy]

Afraid I'm the only one that holds mine. It isn't that I wouldn't allow it, no one wants to! Go figure... My lizards lay all over my boyfriend and he thinks they are the coolest thing on earth, but he has no real interest in getting friendlier with the snakes. I have a subadult Eastern garter that has been my "baby" since he was born and he reaches up to be picked up while most of the others either run or take a nip to see if I'm eatable. Which is why I always wear gloves (don't laugh, that does NOT feel good). I take them off after they figure out I'm NOT eatable, which is pretty quickly.

I have the same problem with my big kingsnake (you think a garter hurts, you ought to try a "nip" from a 5ft.+ kingsnake!). Usually I take a "tank hook" and gently rub her first before going into the tank. This lets her know that it's NOT feeding time and then I can just go in and pick her up. If I were to just go in and try to touch or grab her, she'd light me up! It's so strange though, 'cause she's such a sweatheart to handle, even to the point that I use her in Snake talks that I do for schools and let all the kids handle her at the end of it. It's just when there's the possibility to be fed, she's like a loaded gun....ready to go off!!!:eek: