Mimic the weather?

[mtolypetsupply]

I remember reading a post a while back about our garters being sensitive to things like barometric pressure change when a weather front was moving through. In the wild, they'd get rained on, etc. I was thinking, does it affect them in anyway that they experience all the atmospheric changes, but never get the rain?

What are your thoughts on this? So long as one is willing to do the maintenance so that they don't get rot from being too wet, do you think it would be beneficial to try to give them some "rain" when it's raining? Dim the lights some when it's cloudy and grey? We already mimic some weather conditions for brumation, would it be beneficial to take it those steps further?

I know that many people keep garters just fine without doing this. I am by no means thinking I'd be a bad mommy if I don't, nor am I implying anyone else is a bad Scale-Parent for not. Just one of those things that flashed through my twisted little mind.

And I'm Twisted because, oh, yeah, great Stephi, add one more thing to my giant "To Do" list- add number

359. Emulate natural weather conditions in the garter enclosure daily.

I know I probably anthropomorphize animals WAY too much. That being said, I know I go CRAZY after too many days in a row of the same weather. Too much sun, too much rain, too much wind, anything without variety drives me nuts. So I wonder if it affects our snakes, too.

[infernalis]

Steph, Its actually great that you ask this.

Oddly I have one master light switch on the wall of the reptile room, in the morning just out of habit I switch it on, this turns on a cluster of low wattage lamps (Ceiling fan lights) this provides a soft glow (sunrise) then I make my coffee.

After a cup and a few posts on the forum, I go in and turn on the outlet strips (afternoon sun) and begin my day.

in the left hand corner of the room is my Anoles and my Asian green snake, They are tropical and require misting, so I have a spray bottle to do that with, I sometimes squirt the garter tanks with it (rain)

At night I turn off the outlet strips first, then about half an hour later flip off the switch to the ceiling fan lights.

I also turn the master room heat down a few clicks at night.

So in a nutshell, it emulates the natural cycles of the day.

As far as beneficial to the snakes, I cannot give you an intelligent answer, it's just how I go about it.

They seem healthy enough:D

[Stefan-A]

I remember reading a post a while back about our garters being sensitive to things like barometric pressure change when a weather front was moving through. In the wild, they'd get rained on, etc. I was thinking, does it affect them in anyway that they experience all the atmospheric changes, but never get the rain?

What are your thoughts on this? So long as one is willing to do the maintenance so that they don't get rot from being too wet, do you think it would be beneficial to try to give them some "rain" when it's raining? Dim the lights some when it's cloudy and grey? We already mimic some weather conditions for brumation, would it be beneficial to take it those steps further?
I rarely say this (I think), but test it and see if it makes a difference. I've only tried it for short periods and it didn't make any difference at all. Just make sure you don't exaggerate and that the snake has some place that's guaranteed to stay absolutely dry. Too much water or humidity is going to cause a lot of problems, from mold to scale rot etc., so it's good to keep that in mind.

[anji1971]

It's an interesting idea, and would make a fascinating experiment, but personally, I hope it doesn't make a difference.
I tend to anthropomorphise with the snakes as well, and the idea of keeping their tanks dim and dull on a grey cloudy day would drive me crazy. I need a bright home to be happy. I find that I think the same way about the snakes. There are no cloudy days in my vivariums.;) :D

[infernalis]

Anj, Rain means abundant food to garter snakes.

So wouldn't cloudy days make them happy;)

[anji1971]

Anj, Rain means abundant food to garter snakes.

So wouldn't cloudy days make them happy;)

You're probably right, Wayne. It's just hard to separate my dislike of the cloudy weather from the fact that the snakes might not care. I just can't help but feel they need their homes to be nice and bright and cheerful, too.
I know that's ridiculous, but I can't help it.:o

[guidofatherof5]

I think comfort is universal. Even if the mental understanding isn't there. If they don't know it, it's at least less stress on you.*Disclaimer* This is of course my opinion and not verified with any data or analysis.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Too much water or humidity is going to cause a lot of problems, from mold to scale rot etc., so it's good to keep that in mind.

And respiratory problems! I always have a cool dry and warm dry spot, but the water dish is large. I do occasionally mist my garters and corns, but only enough so that it will evaporate by the end of the day, and usually only when they are undergoing ecdysis.

I wish I could make the time to create a sunrise or sunset effect (or a whole day's cycle). I have heard of track lights that are timed in an arc across the top of the enclosure. I, so far, have all my lights on timers and adjust them every 2 months to match the season. Except for my sand boa and some of my neonates, heat pads and cords get shut off during winter.

Steve

[Lori P]

Stephi, I wish I had the time or ability to make everything more real for them, too. The best I can do at this point is dim their lights on & off to hopefully make them think the sun is rising & setting, lol, and occasionally mist them for a rain day. But I only mist them like once every 2 weeks or so. I think they pick up on dull, rainy days even inside as they feel the barometric pressure... but that's just my guess.

[infernalis]

Stephi, I wish I had the time or ability to make everything more real for them, too. The best I can do at this point is dim their lights on & off to hopefully make them think the sun is rising & setting, lol, and occasionally mist them for a rain day. But I only mist them like once every 2 weeks or so. I think they pick up on dull, rainy days even inside as they feel the barometric pressure... but that's just my guess.


Not a bad guess;)

[Lori P]

Oy. I restated the already stated, didn't I? Sigh... it's early, and it's cold out. My brain is muddy. LOL

[mtolypetsupply]

Lori, I'm a member of the Redundant Society for Redundancy too, sometimes! LOL

Actually, I've been thinking about this, and the post about the "rain=abundant food supply". I've noticed that since the winter dryness has arrived in my house, the humidity in the tank has dropped, despite the addition of another water dish. I can't seem to get the hygrometer to read over 40%, and 40% is after moistening the surface of some of the substrate. It's by no means wet, and it dries in a few hours. However, the consistent humidity is about 30%.

Now, when the humidity was consistently 45-50%, my little ones ate voraciously! Since the drop in humidity, they eat, but not nearly as much nor with as much fervor. I do understand that this is a time of year when they may go off their feed, but I'm wondering since they're babies, is it linked to the humidity, or to a need to brumate?

The "brum room" is available, but many forum participants have posted that brumating babies is unnecessary. They're florida blues, so I've read that they also don't require "real" brumation, as in their range in florida, nighttime temps of low 60's would be typical in the winter, with daytimes in the 70's.

I'd like to experiment with this without doing harm to the snakes. I would like to see if adding humidity to the environment a couple of hours before feeding increases feeding response. That's easy to do.

I need to know, if it does not increase the feeding response, should I brumate? If so, considering the morph, should I just lower the temps? Temps currently range from maximum 80degrees on the hot side daytime, 70's cool side daytime, high 60's at night. Or should I bring them down cooler in a more classic brumation?

If I "semi-brumate" honoring the Fl. temps, will they need food? Total darkness like in classic brumation?

And how would I know if the brumation is not going well, and I need to resume normalcy????

They do come out in the late afternoon, cruise around, hang in their plants, but I've never caught one bathing in the water, despite plenty of room for them.

Oh, this is so much fun!!!!! Brainfood!!!!! I love learning all about my babies!!!!! Teach me, O Wise Serpent MASTERS!!!!!!!

[infernalis]

Try adding some real potted plants.

Real vegetation will raise that humidity for you.

Coconut hair substrate (Eco-earth) holds moisture best, repti-bark a close second (I mix them together frequently)

My little Florida's munch like mad at feeding time, Did yours come from Shannon??

[mtolypetsupply]

Try adding some real potted plants.

Real vegetation will raise that humidity for you.

Thanks, Wayne, now would that be #359A. on my list of things to do in a day or #360---- Take care of plants in viv for garters???? ;)


Coconut hair substrate (Eco-earth) holds moisture best, repti-bark a close second (I mix them together frequently)

I'm using "Jungle Bed" which is a blend of Forest Bed, Coconut, Calci-Sand, and Vermiculite.


My little Florida's munch like mad at feeding time, Did yours come from Shannon??

Yes, they came from Shannon, and I got them at the last Hamburg show. I don't know how old they are because *someone* doesn't answer my desperate pleas to know their birthday. ;)

anyway, yes, they did eat voraciously. Now, not so much, and the only two correlational variables are time of year, and humidity. That's why I have the urge to play "mad scientist" and experiment with the humidity first. I have to make a walmart run today anyway, (Yea! The little princess is finally big enough for a front facing car seat!!!!!) so I'll pick up a new spray bottle. Every other one I have has had a cleaning solution in it.

[jitami]

Stephi, my '08 babies have cut back on food significantly, too. I figure it's a combination of time of year and possibly slower growth. I mean they can't continue to grow several inches a month for the rest of their lives... they're going to have to slow down eventually, right? And when they do they won't need as much food? Just a thought. My guys are both in the 15"+ range already... need to measure them!

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I often notice, that despite artificial lighting and temps, my corn snakes, for instance, retreat into their hidey holes when it's raining outside; they must sense the change!

As for substrate, I use aspen for my kings and corns, and a sand, soil, bark mix for most of my garters and other small snakes. My aquatic garter has sand, river cobble, and a very large water dish.

A note on vermiculite: It has become increasingly difficult to obtain vermiculite here, since it was discovered that vermiculite contains trace amounts of asbestos and has therefore become less popular.

Coconut bark is great when it's been freshly hydrated and wrung out, but over the long term I find it annoyingly dry and dusty; if you humidify it, it often begins to cake.

Steven