Loren's snakes... (and such)

[Loren]

Well, I thought I would follow the lead of a few other members and start a thread for my collection. I'll start off with some of my garters, and then add some of the others over time, maybe 5 pics at a time. For those who dont know me, I have a large collection, so it will take some time to get them all in here.
These will be all recent or new pics. If any questions on species- I use the terminology found on california herps.com(for Ca. natives, anyhow) unless otherwise stated.

First off, my Coast Garter T. e. terrestris - I've raised her up from a baby.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/coast_garter1.JPG

My Sierra Garter T. couchii - also raised from a young one, been in the collection for over 5 years. Shes pushing 3 feet long.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/sierra_garter1.JPG

My Checkered Garter T. marcianus. Still fairly small, but growing well.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkered_garter1.JPG

My California Red Sided Garter T.s. infernalis. I just posted this pic in another thread, but the pic is only a few days old, so good enough...
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/cal_red_sided_gt.JPG

And now one of my favorites, I have not posted this snake yet. I was offered this animal by a friend up north, so I gave one of my other 2 northwesterns to a friend to make room for her (I think you'll understand why when you see her). I've had her for a few months now.
Northwestern Garter T. ordinoides
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Northwestern_Garter.JPG


I will continue to add snakes over the near future, but thats all for tonight. :)

[Hornets23]

Really nice snakes Loren :)

[infernalis]

Holy crap Loren, my favorite color of the spectrum is red, That Infernalis is just amazing.

My ordinoides are blue, I'd trade for a red one in an instant, and I'm quite fond of blue as well, but man that red ROCKS!:D

Anyone else ever notice that checkered have similar black patches on the neck as a "balckneck"

This thread is such a tease:p

[ssssnakeluvr]

I want the ordinoides!!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

You should be proud! Keep them photos coming.

[Sid]

Very nice Gaters and great photo. thanks for sharing those with us.

[drache]

wow, Loren - that ordinoides . . .
get her gravid, quick
I want her babies

[Garter_Gertie]

w0w! Loren, they're gorgeous! Yes, I can see why you moved out a snake to get the new girl in - she's stunning!

I'd like male babies from both girls with the red, please. Lori, I'll race you to the mailbox.

[crzy_kevo]

omg that ordinoids is amazing

[jitami]

Very nice Loren!!! Wow... what a gorgeous ordinoides!!! Can't wait to see the rest of the collection :)

[Loren]

Thanks everyone. I figured that ordinoides would draw some attention. :) And truthfully, she looks even better in real life. I couldnt hardly believe it when I first saw her. Those are all really nice snakes- great eaters, - other than the couchii- she's a "good" eater. :) They all take rodents.

[adamanteus]

I had a lovely group of 5 T. ordinoides many years ago (every one different!)... but at the time I was heavily into Agkistrodon and I let them go becauseI needed the space.... I doubt I'll ever get them again... bad mistake!:(

[Lori P]

Really nice Loren!! I can't wait to see more. :)

[infernalis]

James, What caused you to give up the "HOT" species??

[Loren]

Well, sorry to venture away from the garters(and into the "and such") for a bit so soon, but these are the pics I have ready, so these are the ones your gonna get. :)
I recently set up a 50 gallon tank for my Northern and Southern Alligator Lizards, Western Fence Lizards, and Gilberts Skinks, and it's sitting in my living room.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Lizard_tank.JPG

Southern is the top one- shes 15", Northern is lower down.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Alligator_lizards.JPG

Western Fence Lizard (the Skinks were hiding, as usual).I'll get a pic of them later.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Western_fence.jpg

[adamanteus]

James, What caused you to give up the "HOT" species??

I felt I was becoming complacent, so I decided to move onto other groups before I caused an accident.:rolleyes:

Loren, nice set-up....... Love those Alligator Lizards, especially the Southern.:D

[Garter_Gertie]

Neat lizards! They have a very old-fashioned dinasoar-like head!!!!!!

[anji1971]

Nice start to your thread! I can't wait till the whole collection has a picture in here. You have some really unique critters, Loren!:)

[jitami]

Aw, it's a wittle blue belly giving you the eye :) Very nice alligator lizards, too :)

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking creatures. Nice set-up. Keep those photos coming.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Love the fence lizards!!!!! first herps I ever kept!!! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I was a little kid!!!!!

[jitami]

And did you rub their little bellies and "put them to sleep" or was that a girl thing? :D

[ssssnakeluvr]

no...I didn't do that with them.....but.....I did do that with the local tree frogs I caught.....lay them upside down and rub the bellies....puts them right out, would lay there for a while!!! :rolleyes:

[jitami]

yeah, fence lizards, or as we always called them, blue bellies, will do the same thing... looking back I think they're probably just too scared to move! So cute, tho! lol

[Snake lover 3-25]

nice lizards and snakes loren:D i love the infernails the best:p

[Loren]

Remember I said the skinks were hiding? I got home today to find one basking.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Gilberts_Skink1.JPG

[Lori P]

WOW. I REALLY love that copper color!!!!!!

[jitami]

Beautiful Loren!!!

[Garter_Gertie]

It's got a "dinasour head" too! I find that so fascinating and 'right.'

Loren, count your blessings. I don't mean to be rude or hurtful or crass... But... I don't mean to be mean, but...

You've got some super, super, SUPER neat kids. You're gonna find a very lovely woman (after I'm done with you...) that will appreciate you for you AND consider your interest in snakes/lizards a wonderful part of you personality and what makes you you.

Keep your chin up and always believe.

But not until I'M done with you! :)

[Loren]

:D:o







.

[jitami]

But not until I'M done with you! :)

I know I'm repeating myself here, but Gertie I wuv you and your wonderful sense of humor! Me thinks Loren's a fool if he doesn't high tail it to Minnesota for the holidays :D :p:D

[Garter_Gertie]

LOL! Tami! I'm almost - if not - old enuff to be Loren's mother! That's why I tease him like I do. I am the anthasis (sp?) of everything Loren wants or needs!

I think Loren and I could be the best o'buddies, but that's about it (sigh).

But I'm willing to give more than buddies a go! :)

[Bay_area]

Well Loren, I know you have more to show:p I suppose the thread would be 20 page long to do that...LOL! Have a good thanksgiving!
BTW, "the gophersnake" is doing good after bringing it in from the mouse rack... only 8 more to find...ROTFL

[Loren]

Well Loren, I know you have more to show:p I suppose the thread would be 20 page long to do that...LOL! Have a good thanksgiving!
BTW, "the gophersnake" is doing good after bringing it in from the mouse rack... only 8 more to find...ROTFL
Give me time Jerry, maybe one of these days I'll bust out 25 pics in a day. I'd post faster, but I only want to use current pics. Plus, many are sleeping for the winter.

Happy thankgiving to you too Jerry, and to Gertie and everyone else as well.

[Loren]

My Northern alligator lizard shed his skin today, so I thought I'd share a pic, for those of you who didnt know that there are a few lizrds that shed their skins in one piece. :)

It "only" took me about a half hour to unravel the tail with toothpicks.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/northern_alligator_skin.JPG

[infernalis]

Now that's cool Loren.:D

[jitami]

That is cool! I love how you can see the little toes and everything :)

[ssssnakeluvr]

Wow! thats cool!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome shed!

[olive oil]

That is so neat.

[adamanteus]

Wow, that's amazing! A one piece lizard slough!

[Loren]

Had a self proclaimed reptile expert on one of those "question and answer" sites insist that no lizard could possibly shed in one piece- after I posted a similar pic of another shed- his answer mysteriously disappeared...:D

[adamanteus]

I've seen some half complete (like a waistcoat and pants:D), but that one is amazing! I think you hand peeled it!;):D

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow too cool loren:D

[Lori P]

Loren, that's amazing!!!! I had no idea any lizard did that!!

[Loren]

Ok, I am finally getting serious about getting good pics of all my snakes. I got several nice pics taken and cropped down last night, and have many many more to go.
I decided I want a pic of every snake on a clean paper towel background- seems to look nice.

So, here is a sample. I'll probably wait with the rest and post them in 1 big clump.

California Red Sided Garter.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Cal_red_sided_Garter.JPG

[brain]

Nice looker ;);)

Is this photo enhanced?

[Loren]

Nice looker ;);)

Is this photo enhanced?
It is cropped, resized, and has slight lighting adjustments, the the red is nicer in the finished pic- but not by much.
In real life, I'd say the snake looks pretty close to the adjusted pic right after shed, and more like the original later on in its skin shed cycle.
This is the original, the only thing I did is resize it to 800 x 600.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/IMG_2510_original_just_resized.JPG

[brain]

wow great color

[jitami]

Very nice Loren!!! Wow!

[adamanteus]

Beautiful infernalis, Loren!

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow beautiful snake!:D

[anji1971]

It's very nice! They do stand out against a white background. Good idea!:)

[drache]

can't believe I've not looked at this thread in so long
Loren, is the Northern Alligator Lizard the only species that does that, or are there others
do you know?
I think this is so cool

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

beautiful snake! most of the time, when photographing snakes, you have to enhance and edit the photo to get true-to-life results, because cameras are more sensitive to lights, UV and other things than us and will often distort or dull the snake's color a lot!! lighting is everything! I edit my photos prior to posting to ensure that when you look at them, you will know what it feels like to see my snakes first hand, their glow, their vibrance, I like knowing that people can see the intricate beauty that I witness first hand.

[Loren]

so, I tried to take a sexy snake pic like Shannon does, but I dont think I quite have it down yet... LOL
Thats my T. couchii, by the way
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/me_and_couchii.JPG


And this is what I look like taking pics in the dark(yeah, i was up late last night, if you cant tell by my face)- many snakes pose much easier in complete darkness. They dont seem to mind the red light, and it allows the camera to focus.

woohahaha
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/me_with_red_light.JPG

[Lori P]

Woooo hoooo work it Loren!!! Love the camera!!

That's it... we'll have a sexy man and his snakes calender!!! You can be Mr. January.

And your infernalis has me drooling like a mad woman!!!

[olive oil]

Watch out Shannon Loren is bringing sexy back!

[Loren]

beautiful snake! most of the time, when photographing snakes, you have to enhance and edit the photo to get true-to-life results, because cameras are more sensitive to lights, UV and other things than us and will often distort or dull the snake's color a lot!! lighting is everything! I edit my photos prior to posting to ensure that when you look at them, you will know what it feels like to see my snakes first hand, their glow, their vibrance, I like knowing that people can see the intricate beauty that I witness first hand.

Yeah, I agree. Editing also really helps cause I am using a fairly old model of camera. My canon A95 (5 mp) was about a 200 dollar camera brand new, 4 years ago when I got it. It does great for what it is, after learning some tricks, but I would love to upgrade. Just cant afford to right now.

By the way- I just learned that a western coachwhip can actually tail whip hard enough to make your hand sting for a minute. :)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

hahaha, look at that!!! what a sexy snake pic! We should have a sexy-snake-pic-off! hahahaha...

I was planning on taking a new one with a snake soon.... now I simply HAVE to!!! I think I'll use my carpet python, Kisses.

NO.... Ra, my king rat snake...

NO... Casper the cave-dweller

NO... oh this is gonna take a while :rolleyes:

[Loren]

haha.

Bring it girl.


LOLOL


.

[Loren]

well, I have almost all the pics ready, waiting on a couple to shed.

[infernalis]

hahaha, look at that!!! what a sexy snake pic! We should have a sexy-snake-pic-off! hahahaha...

I was planning on taking a new one with a snake soon.... now I simply HAVE to!!! I think I'll use my carpet python, Kisses.

NO.... Ra, my king rat snake...

NO... Casper the cave-dweller

NO... oh this is gonna take a while :rolleyes:

Shannon - 3 fig leaves and Limon (woof woof):cool:

[jitami]

Too cute... all of you :)

No wonder I love this forum :)

[Morrbid]

I love your red ones... they look so cool.

[Snaky]

Just went throught the complete thread. Great collection, Loren! Can't wait to see al the new pics.

[Bay_area]

The Ca Redside is looking great! I kinda wish I kept one of the babies for myself. You did a great job, I need to check with some of the others that I gifted them to, to see how theirs are doing. The adults have been moving around a little with the warm spell, but way too early to bring them out of burmation. Not trying to breed them, but I am sure there are enough people to gift them to if they do have babies again. LOL!

[Loren]

Bout time you show yer face round here Jerry!

[Bay_area]

Bout time you show yer face round here Jerry!

I guess I am like most of my snakes, been in burmation til the warm weather comes back :p Plus getting everything ready to go to Maui on Valentines day. :cool:

[Loren]

Plus getting everything ready to go to Maui on Valentines day. :cool:
You make me sick.


:D

[Loren]

Ok, here it goes- my snakes. I am still waiting on the Lyre to shed, but I am tired of waiting. This portion is the part of my collection that I call the natives.

I'm gonna list them in the order they are found on california herps. com

There will be 7 posts (33 pics) made by me counting this one, before I am done.


Rubber boa female
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Rubber_Boa_-_female.JPG
Rubber Boa male
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Rubber_Boa_-_male.JPG
Desert Rosy Boa
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Desert_Rosy_Boa.JPG
Desert Glossy Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Desert_Glossy_Snake.JPG
California Glossy Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Glossy_Snake.JPG

[Loren]

Mojave shovel nosed snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Shovel_Nose_Snake.JPG
Western Yellow bellied Racer
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Western_Yellow_Bellied_Racer1.JPG
Desert Night Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Desert_Night_Snake1.JPG
California Night Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Night_Snake1.JPG
California Mountain Kingsnake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Mountain_Kingsnake1.JPG

[Loren]

California Kingsnake - nor cal specimen
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Kingsnake-_nor_cal_color_phase.JPG
California Kingsnake - southern Cal specimen
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Kingsnake-_desert_phase.JPG
California Kingsnake - striped
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Kingsnake_-_striped_phase.JPG
California Kingsnake - abearant pattern
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/California_Kingsnake_-_aberant_pattern.JPG
Western coachwhip (Red Racer)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Western_Coachwhip.JPG

[Loren]

California Striped Racer (chapparel whipsnake)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Chapparel_Whipsnake.JPG
Sonoran Gopher Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Sonoran_Gophersnake.JPG
San Diego Gopher Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/San_Diego_Gophersnake.JPG
Pacific Gopher Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Pacific_Gophersnake.JPG
Great Basin Gopher Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Great_Basin_Gopher_Snake.JPG

[Loren]

Long Nosed Snake- from nor cal
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Long_Nosed_Snake.JPG
Long Nosed Snake - from eastern ca
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Long_nosed_Snake-_desert_color_phase.JPG
Mojave Patchnose Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Desert_Patchnose_Snake.JPG
Ground Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Ground_Snake1.JPG
Diable Range Garter Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Diablo_Range_Garter_Snake.JPG

[Loren]

Sierra Garter Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Sierra_Garter_Snake.JPG
Mountain Garter Snake (terrestrial)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Mountain_Garter_Snake.JPG
Coast Garter Snake (terrestrial)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Coast_Garter2.JPG
Checkered Garter Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Checkered_Garter2.JPG
Northwestern Garter Snake- red
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Northwestern_Garter1.JPG

[Loren]

Northwestern Garter - black
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Northwestern_Garter_Snake_-_Black.JPG
Valley Garter
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Valley_Garter_Snake.JPG
California Red Sided Garter
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Cal_red_sided_Garter.JPG
Oh- almost forgot one Gopher
Albino Striped Pacific Gopher Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Pacific_Gopher_Snake_-_albino_striped_variation.JPG

[Loren]

And since this guys still in shed, heres an old pic

Western Lyre Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Lyre.JPG

[Loren]

Well, That does it for the California portion of my collection. Sorry, there are a few missing- I dont have them yet.

I will post the rest of my snakes at a later date.

Hope you enjoy. :)

[adamanteus]

I did enjoy, Loren! Fantastic photos, fantastic animals!
My favourite... Western Coachwhip.

[infernalis]

My favorite 2......

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/Cal_red_sided_Garter.JPG

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/Northwestern_Garter1.JPG

They are brilliant.

[Loren]

I did enjoy, Loren! Fantastic photos, fantastic animals!
My favourite... Western Coachwhip.

Yes, I have searched for one for a few years- supposed to be common in the areas I go. Wanted one so bad, I was always rehearsing in my head how to run them down so I'd be ready...
Finally had one given to me by a friend. I will catch one one day- though I will just keep its photo since I have one now.

They are very interesting to handle. A little bit intimidating when it rises up from your hands and looks you in the eye, as if to say- "I might go crazy on you any minute now". Haha.

[drache]

you have a fine cali collection, Loren
my favourites garters are the Sierra and the red northwestern
of the others, it's the coachwhip, the yellow belly racer, and the patchnose
is that patchnose difficult to keep?

[reptile3]

Loren, awesome snakes... you take some fantastic pictures!!

[Loren]

Rhea, I have not had much previous information on captive care of patchnose snakes, but mine in particular took to rodents(mice or rats, thawed or live) right from the beginning. It has been a great captive. I try to feed it more often than most snakes, similar to how I care for my racers and coachwhip. It is however, one of those snakes that does best left alone, and when offered food while it is in its hidebox.
It has actually kept eating right through winter. Very interesting to handle, as it is super laid back- almost limp- but just waiting for the opportunity to blast off into disappearance. It did take a shot at me the other day, but did not actually bite.

[ssssnakeluvr]

how easy to keep are the ground snakes.....love them, so many colors and patterns!!!

[count dewclaw]

Beautiful snakes. The infernalis is still my favorite.

[Loren]

how easy to keep are the ground snakes.....love them, so many colors and patterns!!!
This is my first Ground Snake. I caught him in July of 2007. He has been a good captive as well. Fom my experience, they do well as long as they have a good warm spot in the cage, and I have been told they should have a humid hide, so I do provide him one, and he does use it from time to time. I feed him crickets, and to make his life easy, I pinch the jumper legs off them first. I feed about 4 half-grown crickets at a time, every 5 days or so I suppose.
He sheds often. I added a strip of melamine with 1/4" holes through the side to help him shed- he uses it every time.
I keep him on desert sand, with a large flat cardboard hide.


Actually, out of all the pics I posted in that group- only 2 do not take rodents as their staple diet; the ground snake and the shovel nose. They both eat crickets.

[ssssnakeluvr]

cool!!! hopefuly I can get down to southern Utah this summer and find few!!!! :cool:

[Loren]

Yeah, I can have 2 grounds snakes, I really want to find a striped one too. I know aproximately what area I want to find one too- but its the only thing high on my list in that area, so thats a lot of driving to probably not even find one.
My next trip will hopefully be to coastal So Cal. Havent been herping there yet.

[reptile3]

wow that is sooo awesome!!!! preserve it.



My Northern alligator lizard shed his skin today, so I thought I'd share a pic, for those of you who didnt know that there are a few lizrds that shed their skins in one piece. :)

It "only" took me about a half hour to unravel the tail with toothpicks.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/northern_alligator_skin.JPG

[Hornets23]

Nice snakes loren. You have a really impressive collection.

[Snaky]

That's a very nice collection of snakes, Loren :)

[anji1971]

What a fabulous collection, Loren!:cool:
I like the racers, the patchnose and the ground snake best, but they're all wonderful. Wish we had snake variety like that around here.........

[Bay_area]

Good pics Loren, but there are acouple missing;) & I was wondering how they are doing:confused:

[jitami]

What a wonderful collection!!! I'm so glad you finally got (most of) their pics into this thread! I just might have to have a rubber boa one of these days... they just make my heart smile :) How do you tell the difference from the Diablo(atratus zaxanthus)and a Mountain(elegans elegans)? Is it just locale?

[Loren]

How do you tell the difference from the Diablo(atratus zaxanthus)and a Mountain(elegans elegans)? Is it just locale?

Haha, I just went to california herps .com Key to California Gartersnakes (http://www.californiaherps.com/identification/snakesid/gartersnakeskey.html), and to my peterson field guide, both of which give details to check for- and decided to check mine- and I had mixed results.

The truth is, that garter was given to me by a friend who is very experienced in ca. native snakes(over 30 years of keeping and studying many natives), and it was given to me as a Diablo. As memory serves me, the snake came from Diablo range, not mountain garter range. I never really questioned it.

So, anyhow, I will be double checking on the locality of this snake, and go from there.
The interesting(and possibly confusing) thing I just noticed on the range maps on caherps, is that there is an isolated population of mountains that nearly touches the easternmost part of diablo range.Range Maps for California Gartersnakes (http://www.californiaherps.com/identification/snakesid/gartersnakesrangemaps.html)

[jitami]

Diable Range Garter Snake
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Diablo_Range_Garter_Snake.JPG

This is the girl that was found in my driveway just north of Sacramento...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer6.jpg

And this is my male from the same area...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01467.jpg

I always thought the girl(above) looked different than him, but just attributed it to individual differences. :confused: Your girl(I assume?) seems to have more black on top of her head than either of my two, though. I dunno... I'm confused :confused: lol

[jitami]

I just went and looked at the range maps again, too... and I'm guessing I live in that little isolated spot :) But I'm really wondering now if that isolated spot is diablos or mountains... but I have seen elegans in the sierras that have more white like your elegans and that have the yellow like my male. The elegans seem cleaner and crisper, but really I don't have enough experience to say that! It could totally be just individual differences and nothing more. Interesting, tho.... please let me know what you find out about your Diablo.

[Loren]

Will do, Tami.
I know the main thing I notice about your elegans, and my "Diablo/elegans ? " is the enlarged #6 and #7 upper labials(upper mouth scales), as well as the black barring in between the upper labials. This is indicative of elegans. I tell you what, it sure kinda looks like we have the same snakes.
My buddy reported back that he actually got the snake from a 3rd person, so, I am waiting to see if I will be able to get a locality. I am starting to lean more towards my snake being an elegans than a diablo, mainly due to the upper labials, but I havent made my mind up yet.

My definite elegans, from the Sierra's, is definitely a little different looking, and very very clean cut, but an isolated population could surely look a little different.

[jitami]

Below is a cruddy cell phone pic, but you can clearly see that the base color is yellow, even though this one was found outside that isolated area well inside the main area on the range map for elegans. I don't have a picture, but I have seen them with the white base color, too, like in your other pic. Yours with the white is stunning, btw! I think it's all pretty interesting :) We're lucky to have such diversity in California!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/July%2013%202008/GarterYearling2.jpg