Second thoughts on brumation...

[Zephyr]

Well... I just remembered earlier this year...
That when my male eastern wanted IT, he just sorta did IT with my female albino checkered. She wasn't cooled or anything.
So I'm thinking I may keep the females out to bulk them up over the winter, and only brumate the males. This would make me a little less uneasy about the whole thing, but the question is; would it work? Would cooling the males down and letting them go after the females be enough?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

in my opinion... nope. The females need that time too... its what stimulates them to become receptive. they may without the brumation... but a lot of times... they dont. and without the brumation to time it all for them.. each female can go into season at a different time and you will be left guessing when. Your litter sizes will probably also be smaller... just because a freak thing happened once... does not mean that all your females will become receptive without that down time. That down time is good for them... they normally do the bulking before the winter... then they sleep.. and they wake up in the spring... mate... and produce BIG bouncing litters... so if that's the way that it happens in the wild... we should try and duplicate that so for optimal reproductive health on both the male's and female's parts. If a female is too thin to brumate... don't cool her... and don't breed her this year... wait a year.

A male can go after a female and breed with her, but if she hasn't been properly cooled and seasoned... and she is never actually receptive... there will be no babies! No eggs for the sperm to fetilize... no babies.

possibly that is why your checkered had such a small litter?

jsut some food for though :)

[bsol]

makes sense! The receptive female seems equivelant to the make sex drive post brumation.

[Zephyr]

A male can go after a female and breed with her, but if she hasn't been properly cooled and seasoned... and she is never actually receptive... there will be no babies! No eggs for the sperm to fetilize... no babies.

possibly that is why your checkered had such a small litter?

jsut some food for though :)
As far as her litter size goes; she's incredibly small. She's a two year old measuring in at only a little over 22": For that body size I'd say she had a large litter.
Also, I do recall reading on numerous sites (and book references as well) that cooling isn't entirely necessary for reproduction.

The only thing negative I can think of about not cooling would be... Well, I guess the males would "rape" an unreceptive female, not too sure on how the psyche of that would effect her. lol

[ssssnakeluvr]

Also, I do recall reading on numerous sites (and book references as well) that cooling isn't entirely necessary for reproduction.


in nature, they all get cooled, whether its brumating under 2 feet of snow, or the cooler winter temps of southern florida (dropping to the 70's instead of 90's)for a couple months...they all cool. you have a better chance of having a litter if they have been cooled.

[Garter_Gertie]

Well... I just remembered earlier this year...
That when my male eastern wanted IT, he just sorta did IT with my female albino checkered. She wasn't cooled or anything.
So I'm thinking I may keep the females out to bulk them up over the winter, and only brumate the males. This would make me a little less uneasy about the whole thing, but the question is; would it work? Would cooling the males down and letting them go after the females be enough?

I doubt if you would be able to "bulk" up your females. Regardless of you brumating or not, even with temps up just due to the shortening of the days snakes slow down.

If you can get them to continue to eat, their eating will be much further and far between than during spring and summer.

Also, a snake knows - it's instinctive. They don't want to eat even if not brumated because all their instincts are telling them it's going to kill them by rotting in their stomachs. This is the accepted rule, but I do know that some people have snakes that eat like pigs year 'round. (shrugs shoulders) I just know in my experience with snakes the one I'm most familiar with doesn't eat from about Oct 1 +/-, may eat once in Feb, but won't really get going until early April. And he's not brumated - thought it is cooler in his room but his heat pad and light are still on.

So, as hard as you might, I don't think you could bulk up your females.

[infernalis]

May I interject?? if one were to keep the lights on a constant summer cycle, the snakes don't know any different.

We kept our snakes up last winter, they had the same light cycle as summer, and ate all winter long as if nothing were any different.

[Garter_Gertie]

As I said, "...people have snakes that eat like pigs year 'round."

We do the light-thing. However, he has access to normal daylight hours through the window that's right beside him. Also, the light we use is for warmth, not to give daylight.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

May I interject?? if one were to keep the lights on a constant summer cycle, the snakes don't know any different.

We kept our snakes up last winter, they had the same light cycle as summer, and ate all winter long as if nothing were any different.

works for me... any snakes I dont want to brumate... I just keep their tanks in summer like conditions... and they eat great!

[ssssnakeluvr]

same here....ones that aren't hibernating for breeding eat just fine all winter

[Stefan-A]

May I interject?? if one were to keep the lights on a constant summer cycle, the snakes don't know any different.

We kept our snakes up last winter, they had the same light cycle as summer, and ate all winter long as if nothing were any different.
Doesn't work this far north. :D

[Garter_Gertie]

I'm not sure it's going to work here, either. I've been keeping the 100w 'white' light on +/- 12 hours/daily with Peeps and Jeeps, and Niizh and it does not seem to be working. I'll keep doing this and see what happens. They've definitely slowed but, other than Peepers - who I only see like once a week anyway - they're out and about. But their appetites have decreased markedly.

[Loren]

I see a variety of winter behaviors in my collection. Everything from eating like a pig year round, to going off feed for 5 months whether I keep them warm or not. Depends on the species and the individual animal.
If you dont need to breed them, nothing wrong with feeding them year round- but if they stop eating on their own(but they seem healthy), its probably best to put them somewhere cool for the winter.
Right now, most of my animals are still eating, but a couple have stopped.

[Snake lover 3-25]

but what if you think your snake is a tad bit....... ok maybe a little more than a tad on the heavy side? he's still eating...... but he's pretty fat....... should i brumate him?

[jitami]

Light thing apparently not working for my wild caught kids either. Ella who's usually a PIG is out and about, literally laying next two two thawed fuzzies... Sly is moved to a feeding tank also ignoring two thawed fuzzies...

CB babies, on the other hand, are stuffed to the gills, already returned to their warm, snuggly, tank where they're curled up together in their log :)

[Zephyr]

I'm starting to think season changes don't affect captive bred snakes that much...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7540/img1328tx4.jpg

[Garter_Gertie]

Niizh is captive bred. And so are his parents. And he's decided food's not to his liking.

BUT... I must admit we're talking a Hoggy here and they can go off feed if you look at them a way they don't like.

[Zephyr]

Coincidentally, I checked her after their 4 hour rendezvous. I don't see a sperm plug; Could fertilization still have happened? I don't recall seeing one with my albino checkered either... And in their "mating tank" there was some weird fluid in one of the corners.
Did they complete the deed?

[adamanteus]

There is a lot of 'off-season' mating activity going on with many of my Garters too, Kyle...... I'll be curious to see if the females are still receptive come the Springtime.

[Zephyr]

The thing here is that I actually put them together as opposed to finding them that way.
I put the male in to the female cage, he sniffed some dried urine, then he just went crazy. lol
So I took her and him out, put them on my bed (didn't have a container handy) and watched him hunt her down. XD
They stayed locked in the bin for four hours, so I'm wondering if she's going to conceive even though I didn't find a plug. Also, I decided they were finished when I saw them unlocked.

[adamanteus]

It might be a day or so before the plug shows up, Kyle. Even then you could miss it.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Brian Eager and I have noticed wanderings breeding in the fall... Nikki caught a pair breeding in september a couple years ago.

[Zephyr]

Brian Eager and I have noticed wanderings breeding in the fall... Nikki caught a pair breeding in september a couple years ago.Hmm.
Around here I didn't notice a lot of snakes mating last spring... Only a pair that I put near each other and I heard of one snake ball at the plots.
Maybe garters are inclined to fall breedings?

[NikkiSixx]

Brian Eager and I have noticed wanderings breeding in the fall... Nikki caught a pair breeding in september a couple years ago.
yes i did and i thought it was like really strange so i picked them up and broght them home......
i was sleeping over at a friends house and her parents didnt like it very much but they let me bring it inside anyway...... :D

[count dewclaw]

A couple weeks ago, as the garters were congregating near the old well they use for brumating (on my property), I found a female with several males all over her...