New and confused

[mtolypetsupply]

Hi all, I'm new to this world and confused about all the abbreviations and some of the meanings regarding coloring.

I've looked up some of the words, but other abbreviations are confusing. For two examples, I saw somethings on other posts like:

Piebald, which I am familiar with from horses, meaning black and white, but the snake was not black and white

and

100% "Het", which I would have interpreted to mean "heterozygous" for the color trait, is that the percent chance that it is het? Or am I way off on what is being conveyed here?

If there's a good post already or a reference online for all these terms, I'd love to have a link to it.

Thanks so much!
Stephi

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

There are lots of different morphs of different snakes and there named many different things
a piebald in a snake has random patches of white, here it is in aball python
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/lizardsofoz/IMG_3596.jpg

Hi all, I'm new to this world and confused about all the abbreviations and some of the meanings regarding coloring.

I've looked up some of the words, but other abbreviations are confusing. For two examples, I saw somethings on other posts like:

Piebald, which I am familiar with from horses, meaning black and white, but the snake was not black and white

and

100% "Het", which I would have interpreted to mean "heterozygous" for the color trait, is that the percent chance that it is het? Or am I way off on what is being conveyed here?

If there's a good post already or a reference online for all these terms, I'd love to have a link to it.

Thanks so much!
Stephi

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

you are 110% white, a piebald snake has areas of white on it, and the "hets: you saw are (hopefully) carrying this trait and will produce some when bred back to one another.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

and yea het is short for heterozygous,
ok lets say A=albino N= normal H= 100% het for albino

AxA= all albinos
AxN= all 100% het for albino
HxH= half albino half 100% het for albino

[Garter_Gertie]

Stephanie brings up a good question I've been trying to figure out.

Why, when we're taught "het" means it's showing the gentic carrying, does "het" in snakes mean you can't see it?

Like 100% het for albino would mean - as I was taught - not only does it carry the gene but it shows it.

Basically, het = what you see is what you get.

I'm still confused. I need more baby steps!

[Loren]

homozygous shows the trait, heterozygous is recessively carrying the trait but not displaying it, as it is not dominant in the animals genes.
I think so anyhow, off the top of my head. :)

In a simple recessive trait like albinism, and the majority of other color morphs, the animal needs to inherit the gene from each parent to be homozygous. If it only get the gene from one parent, its not enough to make that trait dominant in that animal, so it is only a carrier at that point- heterozygous.

[Garter_Gertie]

BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG

Sheesh but my forehead hurts. And dang if there isn't a flat spot on it from it hitting my desk...

HOMOZYGOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Loren!

[Loren]

No problem- but like I said, I wrote that off the top of my head and didnt fact check it, but I think its worded correctly (or close enough ). :)

[Garter_Gertie]

It's very correct. I remember now you pointed out the differences. I always did have trouble differentiating the two... Prolly because of the 'zygous' ending.

As soon as I read what you'd typed, it came back: homo = same; what you see is what you get.

Ittiz tough having a head full of all this stuff and it gets mixed up as you get older. But trust me, Love, I'll not forget your name once I get all this surgery done.

You are a love, Larry.

[Loren]

But trust me, Love, I'll not forget your name once I get all this surgery done.

You are a love, Larry.



:D:D:D


.

[Garter_Gertie]

Hehehehehe! :D

[snakeman]

actually a het to het breeding will only yield 25% albino the rest would be 66% hets because you would not know which ones are hets.Albino to het would yield 50% albino The rest would be 100% het.A het to a normal would yield all 50% hets

[Loren]

I think you're right, although I dont feel like looking it up. :)

And keep in mind, Steph, this is in theory. If we say het albino x albino = 50% albinos, you should end up with 4 out of 8 babies being albino, but in reality, it might be a couple more or less- but on the average, it will be near the numbers.
Although when 100 % or 0 %, its pretty much a firm rule.

[mtolypetsupply]

Wow, it's so nice to get so much input from so many smart people!!! I'm a stay at home mom, and it's nice to get some "brain food"- it's not exactly challenging singing "the wheels on the bus" and watching Wow Wow Wubzy with my daughter!

I do remember genetics from HS/College, and doing the Punnet squares etc. Now, to take this further, are the color morphs simple or I remember something about "multiple alleles". I do not, however, remember if that is multiple sites on the same gene, or multiple genes, or something else entirely. (But I know it will all come back to me when I read your posts!) Are some color morphs simple while some are complex?

What prompted this was when I looked up "piebald" I got a lot of coat color genetics info on horses. So for example, the gene for a certain coat is recessive, but because coat color/markings/patterns are governed by multiple things, one homo-recessive "over" (not quite sure what they meant by that) another recessive gives another coat color, but when "over" another type of recessive it gives a third color, etc. etc. etc...

And about the "how many of them will be Het, how many will be Albino", my understanding was that it wasn't that 50% of a litter, clutch, brood etc. should be that, it's that each genetic combination has a certain percentage chance that it will be of a certain genotype. From horses, I know that even though a mare or stallion is hetero for a gene, he/she may never "throw" that gene. So a beautiful paint horse, with flashy color, may never, ever in his/her life send along the gene for that, and have plain brown babies EVERY time, despite being bred to a homo-recessive mate. So it is possible (I understand not probable, though) that a Het mated to an albino will have no albino, only het babies, and two hets "could" have only Homo-Dominant babies.

I know I'm probably getting way ahead of myself for practical applications of this knowledge. Heck, I'm just looking to get my first Thamnophis, not anywhere close to breeding where I'd *need* it. But like I said, I really enjoy thinking, and you all give great brain food!!!! AH, I feel the cerebral fluid warming now!!!!!!

Hope you're enjoying this as much as I am,
:)
Stephi

[Garter_Gertie]

Gods, Stephi, you've got me wetting my pants here as I laugh!!!

Wow, it's so nice to get so much input from so many smart people!!! I'm a stay at home mom, and it's nice to get some "brain food"- it's not exactly challenging singing "the wheels on the bus" and watching Wow Wow Wubzy with my daughter!

Too funny! But can understand from where you come - not that I have or ever have had widdo wee scaless ones! Just can understand the need for brain candy and like minds.

Too cute! You crack me up!

GO, GIRLFIEND!!!!!!!!!!! Better to have the knowledge before you need it, than to be in dire straights (Would that be a good name for a rock group???) and scrambling for the info.

I am very much enjoying having you here! Not laughing AT you; laughing with you! Nice to have you!

[Loren]

Wow, Stephi, sounds like I should be asking you the questions. :)
I think your explanation of the percentages of hets vs. homo's is more accurate than mine. You pretty much got it as far as I would know from my basic understanding of this stuff.
As far as I know, it seems like the majority of snake morphs are simple recessive, but I could be wrong.
:)

[Loren]

So, here is a link for anyone interested- look to the left column for genetics 101-601- 6 lessons on snake genetics.
The Learning Center - Genetics 101 (http://www.vmsherp.com/LCGenetics101.htm)

There's actually several other pages on care and breeding that might be good reading too.

[Lori P]

Sigh... genetics make my head implode.

[Loren]

yeah Lori?, try reading the "genetics 601" page first, whoa!

[reptile3]

:eek:Can I drool over this picture!!! I would love to have one of these snakes!!! It;s ok my ball is gorgeous!! he he


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/lizardsofoz/IMG_3596.jpg

[Loren]

yeah, I'm not really into all the ball morphs, but pieds are awesome.

[Lori P]

Yeah, I could very easily add one of those!!!!! They're just stunning. Those and the pure white ones with blue eyes... think one will turn up in the pound one day and I can rescue it?? (Hopefull) LOL

[mtolypetsupply]

Loren,

Thanks so much for that link!!! I read it, smoked a cigarette basking in the afterglow, and haven't felt that satisfied in months!!!! My husband was a little disappointed to hear that, but after we put the kid to bed, he decided that genetics articles are better for me than a bottle of red wine and a Barry White cd!!!!!!

LOL, JK, about most of that, but it was great "BRAIN CANDY" as another poster said.

I only have one question, albeit rhetorical, Why are corns, boas, pythons, and geckos on there, but no GARTER breeding?????? The poor little guys get pushed to the side again!!!!!!

Thanks for the brain candy!!!!

Oh, and after we've all read that, and have it on our favorites, Heaven help any breeders in whose stock we are interested, unless they really know their stuff too!

:)
Stephi

[Lori P]

Stephi? Hun, you REALLY need to get out more. :D LOLOL

[prattypus]

Alright, so I TRIED to wade through the herp genetic link, but let me see if this makes sense to the breeders on this forum:

If I have an anerythristic plains, and I breed it to a normal, it should be 25% anery with the remainder being possible het, right?

[Stefan-A]

Alright, so I TRIED to wade through the herp genetic link, but let me see if this makes sense to the breeders on this forum:

If I have an anerythristic plains, and I breed it to a normal, it should be 25% anery with the remainder being possible het, right?
I know the feeling, I'm trying to learn it myself.

I think you get 100% het for anery, if it's a simple recessive trait. Breed those back together and you get 25% anery, 50% het for anery and 25% normal.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[reptile3]

Yeah, I could very easily add one of those!!!!! They're just stunning. Those and the pure white ones with blue eyes... think one will turn up in the pound one day and I can rescue it?? (Hopefull) LOL

Lori, you find one, LET ME KNOW!! I will rescue it in a heartbeat!!! All white with blue eyes, to die for!! ahhhhhhh

[Loren]

Stefan , you are right on the plains anery + plains normal = all 100% hets (appearing normal).

As for the hets breeding together, sounds about right to me, but I dont feel like looking it up right now. :)

[Loren]

Loren,

Thanks so much for that link!!! I read it, smoked a cigarette basking in the afterglow, and haven't felt that satisfied in months!!!! My husband was a little disappointed to hear that, but after we put the kid to bed, he decided that genetics articles are better for me than a bottle of red wine and a Barry White cd!!!!!!

:)
Stephi

Wow! I'm gonna start telling all my dates all about snake genetics over dinner, instead of asking them about themselves and trying to be interested in what they say... :)

Glad I could help. :)

[Garter_Gertie]

Wow! I'm gonna start telling all my dates all about snake genetics over dinner, instead of asking them about themselves and trying to be interested in what they say... :)

Glad I could help. :)


LOL! Worth a try, I guess. But I bet you never make it to desert - let alone first base! And to set the mood, serve speghetti!

[Loren]

I'll let you know how it goes... :)