Rheumatoid arthritis in a young one

[guidofatherof5]

:( Last night I took a couple of my Plains Gaters to the Vet. One for a prenatal check-up and one for a spine that didn't look right. The prenatal went great and our girl "Lucky" has aprox. 25 eggs and is doing well. The bad news came with regards to the baby we took in. This was a wild caught baby that has always had bumps along its spine. According to the Vet. its rheumatoid arthritis or scoliosis. In any event the prognoses is grim. He doesn't think the little one will reach 1 year. He believes it will eventually affect the snakes breathing. My daughter asked if we are going to have to put it down. I told her that time may come but for now the snake is eating, drinking, shedding and of course pooping. We will have to keep a close eye on the little guy to keep it from suffering.
Have any of you ran across this situation before? According to the Vet it's a genetic disorder. Any help would be great. I would attach a photo but can't see to figure that out. I have a ton of rollover minutes on my
cell and long distance is free for me. Give me a call or get me your number and I'll call. Steve 402-319-3769

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkle_back_2.jpg[/IMG]http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkle_back.jpg[/IMG]Here's a photo of this little ones back problems. When holding him he has a lot of trouble moving across our skin. In his home he does very well. He has always been a great eater and has had no trouble shedding. Hope someone has dealt with this problem and can give me some advice.

[Lori P]

Oh, man, the poor baby. That sucks. Is he in pain, did the vet think? I guess that's hard to gauge. If he's eating and moving around, he must be tolerating it at the least. Sorry about the diagnosis... very interesting, tho. Wonder how many snakes end up with spine problems?

[jitami]

How strange. Unless those are very small hands holding him, he's a decent sized baby and seems to be growing well. I wouldn't be too pessimistic about his condition... I also wouldn't get the kids hopes up, but if he's done well this far I can't see why he wouldn't continue to do ok. I'm not a vet, tho... just an optimist :)

[Garter_Gertie]

Oh, that poor snake! It hurts to look at him. I'm so glad you're going to keep him happy. While in Nature he'd have prolly already become part o'the food chain, that's not how it worked out, is it?

It went this way and I'm so glad you have the heart and soul to consider a 'lowly' (kind'a pun intended...) snake important enuff to care for and make comfortable as long as it's deemed he should live.

I really like Tami's thinking. No one knows what's coming, but why not go with the good as long as possible and be optimistic? He didn't end up snake food, did he? He may out live your pregnant female. Who knows?

Skritch him on his back for me. You're doing the rite thing Guido.

[CrazyHedgehog]

wow that is odd looking, are you sure it is not a birth defect?

[guidofatherof5]

The Vet. didn't say anything about it possibly being a birth defect. I'm just not sure. The only course of action I feel I have at this time is to give the little one the best chance at life. For what ever time that may be. My kids have welcomed him into the family and only want the best for him. My kids also know that part of our responsibilities is to not let them suffer. It's aways a very difficult time around here if we have to put any down. I had a couple of babies(Plaines) that had "failure to thrive" and it came to a point that something had to be done for them. Their choice was to waste away and suffer the agony of starvation. I couldn't let that happen since they were in my care. I'm blessed to have children that have a heart for all the little creatures that end-up on our door step. My 12 year old son raised his first bird(mud swallow) this spring and had to watch it fly away when the time was right. Takes me back to my childhood.http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/klaebird.jpg[/IMG]

[Lori P]

Oh, such a sweet pic. :-) You're a good dad!!!!

[ssssnakeluvr]

if you can keep it alive and not suffering, great!! kinda looks like a scoliosis type problem....if it's eating ok and surviving, not suffering, good job...just don't breed it and possibly pass on that gene if it's genetic.

[jitami]

What a darling pic of your son and his bird... yep, good job dad :)

[guidofatherof5]

Thought I would post a few updated pictures of my little fighter. This little snake lets nothing slow him down. Eating, growing, doing all the Radix stuff.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/crinkle1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/crinkle3.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/crinkle2.jpg

[anji1971]

Oh my God......
I can't believe I missed this thread before.:eek:
A couple of the babies from Chili's litter have lumps in their spine. One that I adopted out and my Sweetpea. They aren't nearly as pronounced as your little guy (only 3-5 lumps spread along the spine), but they are there. I had pinned it down to a birth defect, because I didn't even realise snakes could have rheumatoid arthritis, or scoliosis. (My husband will be thrilled. He has scoliosis too. Maybe he and the snake can bond now.:D)
I have to check up on the adopted baby -- haven't heard any news one way or the other about her, but mine is doing well at the moment. The only time it really affects her is when she is trying to scramble quickly out of the way when I reach into the tank. Then she gets kind of tangled up in herself and flips about for a moment until she relaxes. Other than that, she eats well enough, is growing and seems pretty content.
I'm so glad I saw this, finally.:rolleyes::o
I'm anxious to see how all of these little ones fare.

[reptile3]

Oh Steve, glad to hear the snake is doing great... boy that looks painful!!

Love the pic of your son & the bird!! too precious

[infernalis]

Steve ask your vet for some Metacam, It is a prescription pain med, like a vicodin for your snake.

I have used it on one of my garters, and trust me it works.

Its oral, so getting it in the snake is interesting, I cheated and laced food with it.

[guidofatherof5]

Wayne,
I'm not sure he's in any pain. He seem to be operating just like all the others. Thanks for the info. I will see if my Vet. will give me some for future problems.

[guidofatherof5]

Just an update on this guy. Since my last post, he's gone through 2 sheds. Tonight, he started eating pinky parts without scenting. He's growing and doing very well. Since I worry about his spine I haven't held him much. He is very friendly and comes out of his hide to see what I'm up to. I hope he live a good long life. He has a great attitude and doesn't let his disability get in his way. Lots to be learned from a little one like this. :rolleyes:

[infernalis]

Great to hear Steve.....

[Snake lover 3-25]

aww that's great news!:D

[olive oil]

In your care, we all know he will live a nice life:)

[guidofatherof5]

Our little guy had a first, last night. He started eating pinkies. He had 2 before he was done.
Very glad to see that he continues to grow and do all the other radix things.(other than breeding)
As you can see his back isn't getting any straighter.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkleback1.jpg

[Snake lover 3-25]

oo poor little guy...... i hope he continues to do well for you. he is in the best home he could ever have:) i'm glad he was born with a guy like you there to help him survive:)

[guidofatherof5]

Thank you, Shanley for your kind words. I really enjoy having him with us. I found him under a railroad tie. When I first saw him I thought he had been injured. After a closer look I could see he had some kind of spinal defect. I knew he wouldn't last very long in the wild so he became part of our family. Everyone here really enjoys having him around. He brings a smile to everyone. He's a real go-get-her. I use corn cob bedding and it makes it very easy for him to get around. Holding him is a different experience. He feels so weird. I don't handle him much for fear I will cause an injury.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a couple more of our boy, Krinkleback. After he ate his worm I set him down on the deck. He had trouble moving 6 inches. He would be long dead if he were outside on his own. Since he's in an enclosure with corn cob bedding he can easily get around. I'm seeing more of a trist in his lower half. I don't think he's in any pain. At least I hope he isn't. I see no signs of distress or pain responses. I do think his conditions is worsening. I think growing is is own worst enemy. Nevertheless, he's with us until the end.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krink1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krink2.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Krink.jpg

[drache]

that looks so uncomfortable - poor little guy

[guidofatherof5]

that looks so uncomfortable - poor little guy

He seem normal in ever other way. Eating, shedding, pooping. He's as aggressive os the others and holds his own.

[Stefan-A]

Nevertheless, he's with us until the end.

You would probably have guessed it, but in this household, the end would already have come.

[guidofatherof5]

You would probably have guessed it, but in this household, the end would already have come.

I understand your position.:)
I've concidered it but lean more towards my anthropomorphism side.
I'm getting too much out of the little guy to end his life.
Be assured there will be no breeding done by this little man.

[guidofatherof5]

Took my man out for a bath, today. He doesn't seem to interested in water, other than drinking it. He seems to love the warm water. As long as I support him he's fine. Letting him go to swim on his own is a different story. I don't think he's able to swim and he knows it. I'm able to scrub him down without any objections. Took a couple of photos that show the extent on his disability. No straight lines anywhere. He's one broken little snake. I don't care and the rest of the family agrees. He stays with us.
My kids had some friends over today and I took this guy out. I could see they were concerned about him and felt sorry for him. When I told them of his disability and how it doesn't slow him down. I could see they understood how it translated to their lives. A little broken snake teaching humans something, Very Cool!
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkler13.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/krinkler14.jpg

[Zephyr]

What a trooper.

[Snake lover 3-25]

glad he's still doing well:)

[guidofatherof5]

My little Krinkleback seems to be improving in some respects. A week ago I could see he was in blue phase and knew I would have to be ready to shed him, soon.
When I went in to get him, I found a fully shed snake. He was cruising around with his buddies as if to say "took care of it myself". I felt kind of unneeded.:(

Looking forward to Oct. 15th as that will be his first birthday. Hoping he blows right by that date and keeps going. The Vet. thinks his disease(scoliosis) will claim his life and predicted he wouldn't see his first birthday.
He is a lot of fun to have around. All my kids love seeing him and interacting with his. I feel blessed to have the honor to take care of him.:)

[guidofatherof5]

My liittle friend did a first(that I know of) He was in the big water dish,swimming
Looked like and ordinary radix enjoying a midnite dip in the pool. He spotted me and got out in his own and headed to bed.
I won't write him up for being out of his bunk after lights out. He'll get off with a verbal warning.
This little guy is full of surprizes.

[GarterGeek]

It's great to hear that he's doing well! His life is becoming quite an inspiring little story.

[guidofatherof5]

When I checked on my boy Krinkleback he looked fine but refused to eat. I offered pinkies and worms. This is unusual but not alarming. I held him and gave him the once over. Everything seemed fine. I thought that he might enjoy a drink so I held him in the water dish. He was very thirsty. It got me thinking that maybe I need to install a handicap accessible water dish for him. He may not be able to get up into the raised water container. I've placed branches and rocks around the dish but then again climbing may not be something he likes to do or possibly can do.

[gregmonsta]

:D He's getting all the paternal care and attention he could wish for .... :rolleyes: you'll make the others jealous.

[guidofatherof5]

I gave my little man a shallow water dish. Tonight, as I was leaving the big snake room I saw him in it swimming around.
My kids came downstairs to see what all the excitement was. I guess I was pretty vocal about it.
He's a great little man and I only want to provide a good life to him.

[ConcinusMan]

That's all anyone can do. It's all anyone should do. All is right at The Radix Ranch, I'm sure of it.:)

[guidofatherof5]

This is not the update I would like to make.
Krinckleback is having some difficulties. This morning I found him out of his hide. When I picked him up I noticed he was very limp. Usually he is strong and coils like any other snake. He is doing a lot of tongue flicking which is normal. He doesn't have the strength to hold up his head. He has been eating well and this whole situation comes as a surprise. A surprise in the sense of how healthy he has been.
I know that he has cheated death with this disease he has but I didn't expect something so sudden.
When I hold him I can see in his eyes that he's still there but his body just won't respond. At this point I feel helpless and I seem to be waiting for the end. I'm fine with that outcome as I know he's had a good life here on the Ranch. My biggest problem is the thought that my buddy might be leaving. He really is my buddy and I look forward to seeing him everyday. I'm hopping this is just some passing thing but commonsense and experience tells me different.
Please keep my little man in your thoughts and prayers.

[gregmonsta]

Sorry to hear that. Still rooting for the little guy.

[Stefan-A]

Very sorry to hear that.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry about that steve. Watching my concinnus pair the last couple of their 18 years with me was like holding onto a cut flower, watching the petals fall off daily but you can't let it go until the last petal falls. I couldn't say I didn't see it coming but that didn't make it any easier. I know the pain you are feeling. :(

I only first heard about krinkleback a few months ago here: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6133&page=3

I didn't realize he was a young snake. Thing is, with a physical deformation like that, combined with the fact that young snakes are still growing, well, sometimes the growing isn't a good thing. A foot can only grow so far in an old pair of wooden shoes before the foot gets too sore to go on.

I'm not going to hope for the best. I'm not going to hope he pulls through. It sounds like he's ready. I do hope that you are too. As ready as you can ever be.

Again, I feel your pain. Give him a nice ceremony. A celebration of life type of ceremony. Serve crinkle-cut fries to the humans. Decorate with crinkled tissue paper.

Serve the surviving snakes crinkle cut worms (lol, might be hard to make) and they can have their own celebration of his life. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Krinckleback passed during the night. What time we had together was great.
He taught me a lot and will be missed. RIP buddy. Thanks for everything.

[mustang]

awwwman sorry to hear that he was a cool one....no one but you steve could have helped him live as long as he did

[cowsymbola]

Sorry to hear that.