Tami's Kids...

[jitami]

Just wanted to share some updated pics of the scaly kids.

We took Ella, aka The Driveway Girl, out of quarantine and put her in with Sly at least for the winter. I'm not brumating them, so hoping there will be no hanky panky! She and Sly have been hiding in the carefresh on opposite sides of the tank all day. I think we're safe for now!

Sly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01467.jpg

Ella background, Sly foreground
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01477.jpg

Still just the cutest boy ever
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01484.jpg

[jitami]

And speaking of cute... Here come the babies... They've grown between 3 & 4 inches since their arrival about a month ago!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01523.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01556.jpg

Look at this new playground mommy got us!!! We LOVE it!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01498.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01550.jpg

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

your kids are adorable :D

[Loren]

They look excellent Tami. :)

[drache]

the snakes look great and so does their playground

[infernalis]

I like that driftwood:D

Animals look happy also:D

Tami - Not brumating is no guarantee of abstinence. Hormones can speak very loudly!

[Aundrea]

Awwwwww the kiddos look soooo cute!!! The look very happy with the new playground :D

[reptile3]

your kids are sooo cute!!!! Love the upclose pictures, :)

[jitami]

Thanks guys! That driftwood/grapevine is pretty awesome isn't it? It was the highlight of the Sacramento Reptile Show for me :D When I re-did the tank to make room for it and their new water bowl I streatched out their fake jungle vine and gave them some height for the first time. This is how they're hangin' right now...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01560.jpg
(looks like I need to clean some glass :o)

[anji1971]

Nice kids! :)

[jitami]

It's been awhile since this tread was updated. Measured the babies and took some quick pics of the mischievous duo today so thought I'd share. After being pointed toward snake measurer here's their little growth chart. They were born 7/14/08 and arrived here 8/20. Frack is a little more skittish and doesn't eat as well, but seems to be catching up to his brother in size!

8/20/08- 7.6 inches -only had one pic suitable for sizing, not sure which baby it was
9/13/08- 11.94" Frick, 10.82" Frack
10/27- 14.11" Frick,13.82 Frack

Now for the pics:

I divided a small 5.5 gallon tank with cardboard to use as a simple feeding tank. Meal was pinky & tillapia in case you're wondering :) Frick had eaten his fill and decided to see what his brother was up to...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01880.jpg

Checkin out his brother's food dish...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01882.jpg

Frack, "How in the heck did he get over here???"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01891.jpg

[adamanteus]

Lovely looking Garters, Tami.:)

[jitami]

Thanks James. They're a delight :)

[Zephyr]

Wow. They're absolutely fantastic. :)
Good to see they have a loving (PAMPERING, lol) home. :D

[jitami]

Thanks Kyle. They really are a blast to have around. They're so much more active than the two wild caught adults. They're just busy, busy, busy :D I think it's Frick who's crusing the tank right now, even though he has a full belly and you'd think he'd just be relaxing and digesting :)

[Zephyr]

Thanks Kyle. They really are a blast to have around. They're so much more active than the two wild caught adults. They're just busy, busy, busy :D I think it's Frick who's crusing the tank right now, even though he has a full belly and you'd think he'd just be relaxing and digesting :)Nothing beats captive bred; even captive bred hybrids. :P
What I find odd is that one of them has more of a checkered look (especially the neck) and the other is more eastern. :P

[prattypus]

You can almost hear the Good, Bad, and the Ugly soundtrack in that last pic!!!

[jitami]

They're actually very very similar in person...the only way I tell them apart is the first "checker" on the left hand side. Frick has just a black spot and a smudge there, where Frack's is a normal well defined block. Let me upload the two shots from above that I used for measuring today... not sure they're clear enough to see... lemme look :)

Btw, just curious... which do you think looks checkered and which eastern? :)

[jitami]

Ok, not great pics, but should work for comparison... and please, excuse the mess... it is their feeding tank and I obviously didn't clean it before snapping pics :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01902.jpg

Frack...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01905.jpg

Frick...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01906.jpg

[adamanteus]

I see the difference in the neck pattern. They are nice snakes, Tami. Can I have them?:D

[reptile3]

Love their names... How cute... last pic, NOW where was that pinkie...???


Ok, not great pics, but should work for comparison... and please, excuse the mess... it is their feeding tank and I obviously didn't clean it before snapping pics :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01902.jpg

Frack...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01905.jpg

Frick...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01906.jpg

[jitami]

I see the difference in the neck pattern. They are nice snakes, Tami. Can I have them?:D

Is it the more triangular shape on Frick? And, um, no :D

[Sid]

Very nice Garters and great photos, Tami. Thanks for sharing with us.

[jitami]

Thanks Stephanie :) LOL I usually make them eat their pinkies first, but figured if I just put it on the top of the pile it would disappear... guess not, huh?

Thank you Sid :)

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I can see the difference.
I just can't get over how good they look. :D

[jitami]

I just can't get over how good they look. :D

Yep, they're very pretty oopsies :) Now we just gotta get the other guys to post pics of their siblings... hint hint Don & Wayne ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Tami,
Your little ones look great. I bet it's a blast to sit and watch them explore their new digs. They are so interested and curious about everything. Nice job.

[Snake lover 3-25]

awww they"re so cute:D they are growing up great:D

[Loren]

They're looking good, Tami. well fed, thats for sure!

[jitami]

Thanks guys!

Guido, they really are curious about everything and quite entertaining. When I first got them I was worried that their 20 gallon long tank was way too big for them. LOL! Thankfully Wayne set me straight on that one. They use every inch of that tank and I'm now trying to figure out ways to increase usable space. I'm going to try some new branches so that there's more climbing areas and see how that goes :)

Loren, I'm still trying to cut them back to twice a week, but every two days or so Frick alternates searching for food with staring me down. So far they still "empty out" and don't look too fat when they do. Hopefully no harm is being done in feeding them as much as they want as often as they like. Since they're putting on so much length I figure it's ok for now. Right?

[Loren]

far as I know its ok. :) What you said is kinda my guide- if they are using it all to grow, and not just getting overweight.
My snakes get fed a more laid back schedule, but there's quite a bit of room for variation as long as they are growing and look healthy, in my opinion.

[jitami]

Cool :) I pretty much follow their lead. Everytime I think I'm going to stick them on any sort of schedule they protest :)

[Lori P]

They are so gorgeous!!! I love them. If James can't have them, then can I?? :D

[jitami]

Oh, ok... where should I ship them?

[Garter_Gertie]

I have refrained from commenting so as not to appear to encourage deliberate OOOPS!-es vs. accidental OOOPS!-es...

But Frick and Frack - I just LOVE those names!!!! - are such PRETTY snakes! Very nice looking. Glad they have a loving home; not theirs or anyones fault things happened. They are SO DAMN CUTE!!!

[jitami]

Thank you Gertie :)

[Stefan-A]

Very nice snakes, Tami. :)

[jitami]

Thanks Stefan :)

[Lori P]

Oh, ok... where should I ship them?

Silly-- to my house, of course!!! (Running out to the mailbox to wait) :D

[jitami]

I changed my mind... you have cooties at your house...

(Love ya Lori... and if anyone were to ever get my babies you would be at the top of the list)

[Lori P]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! Yeah, but these are Virginia cooties... they're SPECIAL!!!!!!

[Loren]

Yeah, I heard she got them from some guy named Bob Evans... :)

[Lori P]

Shhhh.. don't tell my husband... he might not build me any other enclosures!!!!!! LOL

[jitami]

Ok, guys... have any of you had what seemed like excessively active young garters? I've often commented on how Frick is always out and about, always on the move. It's a joy to watch, but it's also has me a little concerned? Today he's been up all over the branches, climbing the glass, and doing a small amount of burrowing under the substrate, but mostly just cruising around, here, there, everywhere. His brother cruises maybe a couple of times a day, moving to a basking spot or looking for food, but is generally quiet. He's big and healthy, temps seem fine 80 warm end, 68 cool end right now, no higher than that lately. He's big and healthy, not thin at all. He ate on Tuesday and I offered him food today. His brother ate today, but not him. They've both slowed down on food, but I attributed that to the season and the fact that their growth has got to slow a little eventually, right? Anything to be concerned about or should I just enjoy the entertainment?

btw, he's just too cute and just checked out the water bowl and got a drink... maybe he is hungry now???

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a typical little scrub. I have some that are very active and others that are not. Some seem very content with their lives and others appear to want out. I think it's just individual make-up. They are great to watch, aren't they?

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Hey Tami!

So, Sly is an elegans elegans, and what a beauty! Is he C/B or W/C? And do you know from what locality?

Steve

[jitami]

Thanks Steve, Sly is elegans elegans as is Ella. I really do think he's gorgeous, but I may be a little biased :) Sly was caught in a greenbelt creek near my home on the border of Sacramento and Placer Counties. He was my first garter. The neighborhood kids drug the poor fellow home and were passing him around, dropping him several times in between of course, begging all the parents to keep him. I went out to see what was up and felt so sorry for him. He was really being mishandled by the kids. I quickly took him from them to have a better look and that was the end of that :) In hindsight I should have walked him straight back to the creek and taught the kids a better lesson, but we kept the little guy and he's still doing well over 6 years later :) Ella showed up in my driveway this summer and I just didn't see a viable place to release her so she stayed. She put me at my limit for Elegans, so it worked out ok. Sly's coloring is so much nicer than hers, though. He's a nice rich yellow where she's a creamy greenish color. After a generous quarantine, I do have them housed together right now, but will probably separate them early spring. It's tough, because I know the law, but also don't see harm in allowing them to propagate considering they're already captive and won't impact the natural populations in any way at this point. I guess I need to do more research. I'd love your thoughts... more on the moral and ecological side of the equation. Like I said, I know what the law says :rolleyes:

[jitami]

Thanks Guido...also Steve, right? :D If I didn't have his brother housed with him I really would think that there was something wrong with the environment, but his brother seems totally content, so I guess it's just the way he is :) I did have him out handling him for a long time after that post last night and he seems totally fine. No mites or anything else unusual. Great muscle tone :) Guess he's just a busy boy :)

[jitami]

Frick, '08 baby, the busybody, hasn't eaten in two weeks now. He still looks great. He is drinking. I'm not too terribly worried, but something has got to be off. His tank mate(brother) continues to act and eat as normal. Actually this snake being active is not unusual, but not eating is quite unusual for him. I've tried a couple different things, but nothing drastic as I just don't think it's necessary yet. I think I will isolate him with his food tonight, although that has never been necessary before. He would eat while being held before... would eat pretty much however you offered it. Now, nada. I've thought it through for the adults and I really don't have a way to brumate any of them. Thoughts?

[jitami]

Just updating the babies' growth chart :) My currently fasting, busy boy, Frick is losing ground to his brother, Frack, but still seems to be growing at a decent pace... and his brother was catching up even before Frick decided there are better things to do than eat. Hopefully he turns things around soon. I offered him a minnow on tongs two days ago and I eventually did get him to strike, had the minnow in his mouth, and spit it out? Offered pinky halves yesterday and neither of them ate. Have minnows swimming in a bowl. (I know minnows aren't a good choice, but best feeder I can get here and figured I'd give it a try. Neither of them are eating the fish, so no big worries there! lol) Anyway their growth chart in inches:

8/20/08
7.6 inches -only had one pic suitable for sizing, not sure which baby it was

9/13/08
Frick 11.94"
Frack 10.82"

10/27/08
Frick 14.11"
Frack 13.82"

12/12/08
Frick 16.69"
Frack 16.96"

Everything seem ok despite the recent hunger strike?

[jitami]

YAY!!! Just needed to shout somewhere that FRICK ATE!!! Frick ended his two month fast by finally eating a pinky & a half and two big pieces of salmon jello :D :D :D He's a big fat boy now :D

His brother, Frack, is cruising the tank. He got excited about the food, but as usual lately flicked flicked flicked and moved on. He started his fast two weeks after his brother and has really only been active the last couple of days, so hopefully he'll come around soon. Frick stayed active the entire time which is why I worried so much. The two adults are no where to be seen, so I'm going to hold off on offering them food for awhile.

Whew... one down, three to go :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol congrats:D

[adamanteus]

Great news, Tami!

[olive oil]

Yay Frick!!!
I know you have to feel a little relieved.

[jitami]

Thanks Guys! I don't know why it stresses me out so much when Sly has done it every year for the past 7 years. I was really hoping the captive bred babies wouldn't, but we had some heating issues earlier this winter which probably threw them off. We'll see next year, I guess :)

Oh, and I've been offering the babies everything under the sun at least once a week... the adults, not so much...

[anji1971]

Good to see that someone is snapping out of the fast!:)
Mine eat erratically all winter long, even most of the little ones. I found October and November to be almost useless months for feeding. A little better in December, and over the last few weeks, most of them have returned to normal eating. I still worry about it the whole season, though. Guess it's the "motherly" thing!:rolleyes:

[jitami]

Thanks Anji :) Mine ate through October and November, but nothing in December and essentially January. They were more sporadic in November. Maybe it's just the change of seasons that has them wanting to find a place to "hunker down" for the winter? Since you're further north than us it would make sense that yours start the process earlier. I did pull supplemental heat from everyone for a month or so, just added a heat lamp to the babies' tank last week, and haven't added heat to the adults' yet. I'm going to wait until it warms up a little more here since they're both wild caught from here and should be accustomed to following the cycle in our area.

[Snake lover 3-25]

i'm so glad i found this forum...... it's been so easy to get them out of their fasts...... i'm surprised they even went off feed!!!! htey usually stop eating in aug and start again in march..... this year it was november to january!!!:eek: and i didn't even have to brumate them!!!!!

[jitami]

Nice Shanley! So what did you do differently?

[Snake lover 3-25]

i just have their heat and humidity up way higher and i feed them at night and a bunch of other tips i've gotten off here...... we should make a tips sheet and add it to the caresheet lol:)

[jitami]

Great job Shanley! I haven't tried the higher humidity yet, but will if Frack doesn't come out of his funk soon :) Frick(the one who ate) is now going into shed :D Sweet little guy... wonder if I can get one more meal into him before he goes totally blue?

That would be a yes :D And quick enough that I could still use the edit function! lol One pinky & one large slice of salmon jello dessert :) Brother still shows no interest...

[reptile3]

Awesome Tami!!! Yay Frick ate:D

[misskris]

What pretty babies :)

[snakems]

Thanks guys! That driftwood/grapevine is pretty awesome isn't it? It was the highlight of the Sacramento Reptile Show for me :D When I re-did the tank to make room for it and their new water bowl I streatched out their fake jungle vine and gave them some height for the first time. This is how they're hangin' right now...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Sly/DSC01560.jpg
(looks like I need to clean some glass :o)

omg!! lol theyre so cuuute!! I love them all! :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol congrats again lol i fed willow the day before he shed...... i just feed him small meals around that time so that when he had to slip out of his skin it's not too hard....

[jitami]

Thanks Kris & "Snakem's mommy" :D

I didn't even think of that Shanley... I guess it does make sense, tho... he's totally blue today, so has a couple days to digest anyway :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

yup i think that's why they usually stop eating..... but it really doesn't make too much of a difference as long as they're not out of the blue stage yet......:)

[adamanteus]

I don't think having a large meal inside them makes it difficult to come out of their old skin. I think it's because they are more vulnerable (partialy blind) during the moult, being heavy with a full stomach only adds to that vulnerability.
I have seen snakes with a HUGE meal inside them slough without a problem. The skin is extremely elastic.

[Snake lover 3-25]

o really? wow lol you really do learn something new every day lol!!!!!!!

[ConcinusMan]

I guess I'm going to have to get myself a baby checkered to witness this outrageous growth rate everyone keeps talking about. Amy (plains) grew about 3/4 of an inch in the first month I had her (haven't measured her lately) and I thought that was pretty good. That's faster than any of my concinnus babies ever grew.

[jitami]

I guess I'm going to have to get myself a baby checkered to witness this outrageous growth rate everyone keeps talking about. Amy (plains) grew about 3/4 of an inch in the first month I had her (haven't measured her lately) and I thought that was pretty good. That's faster than any of my concinnus babies ever grew.

Have to take into account, too, that these guys get mostly mice. As babies they were getting more variety, but mice have always been their main food source. As babies they were eating as much as they wanted every two to three days, too. I just let them lead. If they seemed hungry (out cruising looking for food) I fed them. I wish I would have kept up with their growth chart :(

They're now approaching two years old... where does the time go???... and just yesterday took their first whole uncut fuzzy. I'll try to measure them again soon. Now I'm curious :)

[ConcinusMan]

I do take pictures regularly that can be used with the snake measuring program so at least if it's not being written down, I can go back and use those pictures to track her growth. That first month she was eating mostly fish. However, she gets fed every other day (I just don't let her get too stuffed)

For the past month it's been mostly pinky parts and a little fish at each meal. She does seem to be growing quite well.

Next litter of concinnus will be getting pinkies and fish too. Perhaps they'll grow faster than my past litters which were only getting fish, worms, and occasionally tree frog legs or tadpoles.

[jitami]

Ok, so where are these pics of Amy? ;) You know we love pics :)

It will be interesting to see if you notice a difference between future concinnus litters and past. I don't think there is any great advantage to growing faster in captivity and I didn't push it with these guys, just went with what they seemed to want.

[ConcinusMan]

Here's one I almost used for the march photo contest and a few others. I intend to get some photos and video of her pigging out pretty soon. The pictures used to measure her are unimpressive to say the least but serve the measuring purposes. These are not those photos:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/707/gedc0932.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5186/gedc0916large.jpg
Photo taken by Don Belnap:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9306/iowaalbinoradix.jpg

[Mommy2many]

I really love the tulip picture!

[jitami]

What a cutie! I, too, love the tulip picture! Amy is adorable!

[jitami]

Wow, haven't updated this thread in forever. Will have to get updated pics. Hope all is well with you and your critters! Not sure I'll be able to catch up or keep up, but do think of many of you often!

My guys are all doing well. We're celebrating Sly's 10th birthday this year. He's the guy in my avatar and my first garter. He was at least a yearling when we brought him home in 2002. He's a little thin and just isn't eating consistently, but that has been his M.O. since way back when and certainly for the last couple of years. His tankmate, Ella eats enough for both of them ;) The 'youngin's, Frick & Frack, are 4 this year if I'm remembering right. Time really does fly!

We also have a new addition. A good friend, and forum member, set me up with a wonderful little mountain kingsnake that needed a new home. She was brought into a pet shop by a family who didn't want her any longer. The pet shop owner wasn't sure what to do with her as we're not allowed to buy, sell, or breed zonatas here, but can keep one with a valid fishing license. So, she asked a friend who said he had a friend... and I couldn't be more grateful! We've finally settled on Ashley for her name and she's doing wonderfully. Of course, unlike garters, I don't see her unless I go looking for her, but once found she's docile, calm, and curious. I really love the little dear :)

[drache]

good to see you, Tami
it's been quite a while
life is too full sometimes

[jitami]

It really is, Rhea. How are you and your daughter doing? And the reptiles?

[Stefan-A]

Welcome back. ;)

[infernalis]

Welcome back. ;)


Yeah, Really.... Missed you.

[RedSidedSPR]

Never heard of ya ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to see you back Tami.
Hope all is well with you and yours.

[jitami]

Thanks Stefan, Wayne, Steve... and new redsided person ;)

[jitami]

Tami - Not brumating is no guarantee of abstinence. Hormones can speak very loudly!

And sometimes hormones take 4 years to speak... lol I know, I was warned!

[ConcinusMan]

Nice to see you back. :) Been a while.

[jitami]

Thanks Richard... I'm happy to be back... not sure how active I can be on a regular basis, but will try to be helpful :)

[Mommy2many]

Welcome back!

[jitami]

Thanks Le Ann... maybe I should take new pics or something... this whole page is just a repeat of various times I've wandered away and found my way back. Oye. lol I do tend to get distracted and forget to get back here, but Thamnophis will always hold a special place in my heart and I do think of many of you often.

Everyone here has been pretty much status quo until our little surprise babies last month. Thankfully all are doing well. The kingsnake, who I finally named Miss Hissy Fit, wears her name proudly and is a totally gorgeous little brat. I've actually been using a makeshift snake hook to get her out of the tank for very brief periods. Once out she 'seems' ok, but I really don't trust her. She's amazingly fast and would rather eat me than be picked up :eek:. I don't know if you all remember how much of a wimp I am about getting bit, but that still hasn't changed. I can not seem to stop myself from jerking my hand back when she strikes, even if I know it won't hurt, know I could hurt her little teeth, etc. so I found using the hook to get her out is the safest for both of us. So far so good, but we have a looong way to go. She's still fairly small but has put on a lot of size in the past year and I know I need to get this under control asap.... wish me luck :o:rolleyes::o