Herpetologist

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

Hello everyone.
Has anyone here gone to school to become a herpetologist? I am planning on being one when I grow up, and colleges of choice for hepetology?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Zephyr]

Well, I plan to become a veterinarian with specialization in exotics, so I'd assume you could go to Michigan State, Colorado State, or Cambridge.

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

My plan was that me and my friend both want to go into the biology related field. I was going to go for four years and get my bachelors in biology and then find a college and get my masters in herpetology, which will prob take a couple more years.

[Lulu Bennett]

I start college on the 8th sept to study a diploma in science. that will be done in 3 years. After that i will be going to uni studying Wildlife conservation witgh zoo biology. i want to specialise in reptiles.
After all is done in 6 years i will be looking into moving to either USA or Australia.
I can't wait! hehehe

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

I've already made the decision that I am moving down under....and any future girl friends or more better be willing to move too....or out they go hahha.

[Lulu Bennett]

Kevin, if you are moving in about 6 years then i will keep you company. :D

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

Actually it will be in about 8 years....that's if I can find a place to live over there after I graduate....

[Lulu Bennett]

Actually it will be in about 8 years....that's if I can find a place to live over there after I graduate....
If i am already settled then you will be more than welcome to stop with me.

[Garter_Gertie]

Lulu, that's a fabulous goal! You will do well and be happy. Again, if you love what you do you never work a day in your life. I'm excited for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hornets23]

I took a herpetology class. It was pretty cool. My degree is in zoology. I had a lot of awesome classes. You guys will love it.

[Garter_Gertie]

P.S. More women need to get into the sciences. It's fabulous that you're going to. It's really cool and I think so neat!

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

Christa where did you go to school? I need to start looking into colleges now...haha...I can't belive I'm saying that..it seems liek just yesterday I was coloring and trying to spell my name in Mrs. Swingers Kindergarden class....lol =]

[crzy_kevo]

well i still have to look into what school i will need to go to in order to become a herpetologist so i have some work to do :D

[Kevin_is_a_herper12]

Yeah, same here....I have no fricken idea where I am going....hahha

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Hello everyone!

Took a long break I guess. School... Work... Since we're talking careers, I say do what you really love! I too am a herpetology nut, but there is no B.S. in Herps here or anywhere nearby; that realm I do believe is a specialty in perhaps a Master's or Doctorate program. I am only just finishing my lower divisions going P/T. I am curtrently enrolled in Zoology and GIS. I plan to transfer to Humboldt State in a year or so. So far all the prerequisites I am taking are applicable to a multiple of majors (Zoology, Biology, Wildlife, Forestry, Botany, and Natural Resources Interpretation). I would love to major in every one, and quite frankly, it really doesn't matter which one I really pick - I could get a parks job with any one. At the Bachelor level, "they" just care about whether you can handle the responsibility; a few side classes and you can often bounce careers. I have had the recent opportunity to work for Redwood National and State Parks placing ArcView polygons around clusters of invasive weeds (and then killing them). Next Monday I get to go out with the wildlife crew and stun (count) trout! I enjoy wiggling through all the departments, and I believe my foot is stuck in the door!

I will soon be working together with a wildlife biologist in Crescent City on some scientific papers on local snakes (re: southern boundaries of Northwestern Garters and captive feeding preferences of Sharp-tailed Snakes).

I will be posting some pics of recent herp sightings on the forum soon. New pics are posted on HumboldtHerps.

Until,

Steve

[jitami]

Awesome Steven!!! Good for you for squeezing that foot into the door :)

[snakeman]

Damn,Lu Lu got the cougar claws out already!

[Lulu Bennett]

:eek: What have i done this time? lol I am innocent i tell ya, Innocent!!! :D

[NikkiSixx]

May i join in the conversasion? i just have a ?, i would like to to be a Herpetologist but i dont know how far i will get since im only in 10th grade. what should i do?:D

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I recommend that you do your best to get good grades in algebra (or calculus) as well as chemistry or biology (especially AP classes). Get it out of the way in high school, so you don't have to redo it in college! These subjects are usually always prerequisites for any of the science majors.

Steve


May i join in the conversasion? i just have a ?, i would like to to be a Herpetologist but i dont know how far i will get since im only in 10th grade. what should i do?:D

[Stefan-A]

I don't want to become a herpetologist, I just want to take the courses.

[ssssnakeluvr]

wouldn't mind taking them myself...haven't seen a lot of job openings for herpetologists....kinda hard to find, but would be fun!!!!!!!

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Most of the professional herpetologists I know are not herpetologists full time. Unless there is the opportunity to work with threatened or endangered herps on a long-term (usually funded) project (and most often concerned with amphibians these days), or the lucky landing at a zoo's reptile house, or you're a professional breeder, most career choices involve knowledge incorporating the other sciences (fisheries, wildlife, forestry, etc.).

There is often confusion as to who earns the right to be called a herpetologist. Many believe that because they've been breeding all kinds of herps for years on end, that they consider themselves herpetologists. At present I only call myself a herpetology student (even when I graduate, at heart I know I will ever remain the student, for the beauty and mystery the herp world has to give us just keeps on giving! :)
I believe if ya throw an "ologist" in your title, you need to at least have a Bachelor's Degree in a natural science. I don't believe herpetology is at the Bachelor's level, however there are rare circumstances where you can have a Zoology major modified into a Herp major, but only with extreme scrutiny and final approval from the department of the major. I know of one local woman doing this (California Reptorium).
For those who would contest that a degree is required for the herpetologist title, I believe just because you have had years of experience with herps (and you may know your stuff!), doesn't mean you necessarily know the process of the bigger picture. I don't mean to offend; I am just saying that a well rounded scientific curriculum ultimately walks it likes it talks it. Whether I choose Wildlife, Conservation Biology, Natural Resources Interpretation, or Zoology - I have to know and appreciate Statistics, Calculus, Biology, Botany, Chemistry, and a whole plethora of classes specific to the major... as well as take some elective science classes (i.e. Mammology, Dendrology, Soils, Geography, GIS, etc.) That's the bigger picture! I'd love to hear other's perceptions regarding this.

Of course I do have to pay tribute to the locality "experts" found the world around. Nothing beats that gestalt recognition of a wild species like that resulting from the quick reactions of a local herper on his or her favorite grounds!

[Stefan-A]

For those who would contest that a degree is required for the herpetologist title, I believe just because you have had years of experience with herps (and you may know your stuff!), doesn't mean you necessarily know the process of the bigger picture.
I would contest it, though only in principle. The lack of a degree does not mean that you don't have the necessary knowledge. What it does mean, is that your knowledge is practically unproven.

Naturally those that have earned the degree wouldn't be happy about other people using the same title as they. But the assumption that a person hasn't earned the title despite having worked just as hard, is actually a bit absurd in my opinion. "Herpetologist" is not only a title that can be earned, it's also a description of anyone who conducts scientific study of reptiles and amphibians.

[infernalis]

My take on this will probably cheese a few people off...

Not herpetology, but a field I have been involved in on a professional level since 1986...(Same concept however, concerning degrees)

Prospective employers like degrees when looking to hire a newb, however I have seen first hand the following scenario.

applicant #1. is 23 years old and has just earned his degree in computer technology. Got great grades, highly recommended by staff at college, etc...

applicant #2 is 35 years old, self taught and has nothing more than a high school diploma but got lucky enough to have had a previous job in the same field, be it through a friend or relative, whatever... NO degree but a decade of hands on experience.

I and most other prospective employers would chose applicant number 2 over applicant number one. #2. has a better grasp on the "big picture" than number 1. and is more likely to to lack the arrogance many young people posess upon graduation.

The applicant with the degree has knowledge, but lacks "real life" experience.

The point is, a degree is an accomplishment, but in reality nothing more than a very expensive sheet of paper that proves nothing more than good retention of what has been read from textbooks and recited by a teacher.

"book smarts" and intelligence are similar, but not quite the same.

I'm not saying in any way that I would want a "self taught" doctor to perform any surgeries on me, however there are documented cases of discoveries made by people who never set foot on a college campus curing disease and changing the world.....

If herpetology is your passion, pursue it, stack up those degrees, go for a doctorate, it will be your best chance at recognition for your work.

However, don't belittle those who lack that fancy document framed on the wall...

After re-reading Steven's post for the third time, I do stand corrected on one issue, the title must be earned and not self appointed. "ologist" and "enthusiast" are two distinctly different things.

[Stefan-A]

I and most other prospective employers would chose applicant number 2 over applicant number one. #2. has a better grasp on the "big picture" than number 1. and is more likely to to lack the arrogance many young people posess upon graduation.
Well.. In my experience #2 would be far more likely to be the arrogant one and more likely to be doing things in a way that can only be described as "wrong", only because that's how he has always done things. He might be a better investment, in that he does have experience, but #1 has an education which will start becoming a serious advantage as soon as he starts gaining experience. On the other hand, he's probably more likely to switch jobs, than the older one.


The applicant with the degree has knowledge, but lacks "real life" experience.After a few years, he'll have both.


The point is, a degree is an accomplishment, but in reality nothing more than a very expensive sheet of paper that proves nothing more than good retention of what has been read from textbooks and recited by a teacher.Not necessarily. The teachers we have, are not just teachers, they also conduct R&D and really are more than just reciters of textbooks. They've pretty much written those textbooks. The tests we have (and all of them aren't really tests in the traditional sense) do not rely on the student's ability to memorize facts, they actually test whether or not you understand and are able to apply the knowledge you have gained.


"book smarts" and intelligence are similar, but not quite the same.They don't have much in common, really. Both book smarts and experience are about learning, but intelligence can't really be learned, it's a separate concept. And wisdom is the ability to apply the knowledge you have, whether it's learned through reading or learned through experience.

[infernalis]

Well.. In my experience #2 would be far more likely to be the arrogant one and more likely to be doing things in a way that can only be described as "wrong", only because that's how he has always done things. He might be a better investment, in that he does have experience, but #1 has an education which will start becoming a serious advantage as soon as he starts gaining experience. On the other hand, he's probably more likely to switch jobs, than the older one.

Sometimes true, sometimes not, in many cases the older more experienced one will have been humbled by some experiences that the younger one has yet to encounter.

And yes, the younger one will most likely change jobs looking for that better deal. (more than once in most cases)

Many years ago I was fired from a job for refusing to subordinate to a child. (OK she was 22 I was somewhere around 30) That experience knocked my arrogance level down quite a bit.

Later on I did hire a college student, he was great and I learned a lot from him, in fact that was the point behind hiring him in the first place, So I could "steal" the college information for a lot less than going myself, Joe and I are still friends to this day. (I traded my experience for his education, we both reaped the benefits)

However something does have to be said about the growing number of "older" college students enrolling over the last couple decades. Again, that is most likely someone looking to better their value in the career of choice.
then either seek a pay raise or change jobs..

If the older one is "dead set" in their ways, they most likely start a new company of their own, and either succeed or fail miserably, depending on their desire to learn and apply the knowledge gained along the way.

A former colleague once told me that if you can swallow your pride, and admit that one person cannot do everything, that to truly succeed, hire others that specialize in what you cannot do yourself.


After a few years, he'll have both.

Indisputably correct.. But around here, most employers are not willing to wait that few years for the "student" to "season" into the professional.


Not necessarily. The teachers we have, are not just teachers, they also conduct R&D and really are more than just reciters of textbooks. They've pretty much written those textbooks. The tests we have (and all of them aren't really tests in the traditional sense) do not rely on the student's ability to memorize facts, they actually test whether or not you understand and are able to apply the knowledge you have gained.

Again indisputable, it is known that some of the finest universities are located in Europe, now I know why...


They don't have much in common, really. Both book smarts and experience are about learning, but intelligence can't really be learned, it's a separate concept. And wisdom is the ability to apply the knowledge you have, whether it's learned through reading or learned through experience.

Again so very true, Never thought about that so thoroughly...

I am still to this day making payments for my oldest daughters college "education" so she can work part time at minimum wage doing something completely unrelated to what I sent her to the institute in Pittsburgh for.

Along this journey of life, I have met some intelligent people who struggle to tie their own shoes, and met some "dumb" people who hold patents.

Application of the gray matter located inside ones skull is a choice we either consciously or unconsciously make ourselves.

Stefan, Your level of intellect exceeds your years...

[Stefan-A]

Along this journey of life, I have met some intelligent people who struggle to tie their own shoes,
Einstein would be a classic example.

[infernalis]

Einstein would be a classic example.

Here is a brain teaser,

Why should the world be thankful that Einstein was Jewish??


I don't want to become a herpetologist, I just want to take the courses.

Admirable, the quest for knowledge should only end at the moment of death.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Yes, I would have to agree with you on this Wayne. I have seen many such self-appointed idiots even at herp show booths! And Stefan, I accept your rebuttal as having sound merit. By all means, I did not mean to offend anyone on the forum by stating this opinion. In fact, that's what these forums are for - exchange of ideas and perceptions. I too will stand corrected, for as Wayne mentioned, I do believe there are indeed many graduates posing like self-appointed fools themselves, for they have no real life experience to go with that hard-won piece of paper; so what in that case is the point of the degree?

In fact I'll just simmer down now in my old age. I had less college classes to my name than most of my younger seasonal co-workers at the park, but guess who got the longer tenure? Must be my age, maturity, German work ethic, my personal interest and obsessive compulsiveness with anything flora and fauna, but basically life experience.

In retrospect, I think we're all in the same boat!

Maybe it was because the other day when I went to the county fair, there was this lady in the nursery section with a butterfly booth (complete with a live Monarch exhibit). She claimed to be a butterfly expert (sells eggs, cats, and pupae along with a plethora of butterfly attracting plants... She did not want ME asking her too many questions. When I mentioned that endorsing the Butterfly Bush (Buddhlea) in NW California was an environmental threat - being an extremely invasive shrub, she asked "invasive to who?" It's to whom!!!! No, seriously, this person had no broader knowledge of anything that did not spin within her own tunnel vision of interest - No understanding of consequences - the bigger picture.
I understand now that there are school of lifers with no certification in the sciences that may be titled "herpetologist", but I believe those with a true ethical, yet objective foundation are a smaller number within the uncertified herp community.

Steven


After re-reading Steven's post for the third time, I do stand corrected on one issue, the title must be earned and not self appointed. "ologist" and "enthusiast" are two distinctly different things.

[Garter_Gertie]

Wow. You talk good. I admire you.

I've no degree, but years of college. But it must be my age, maturity, German work ethic, my personal interest and obsessive compulsiveness with anything... fauna, but basically life experience that's gonna get me that full-time job with the DNR should the legislature ever make what I do a paying job once again.

Again, I have to say, if one follows their passion, they never work a day in their life. Additionally, if you follow your passion, you are going to soak up so much knowledge and experience - because you're going to make the experiences happen - than someone that simply decides to pursue a career.

I'm a far better archaeologist, naturalist, interpreter, herper/snake geek, marketer than my x-husband ever was a business man. He pursed an income. I've been pursing my passions all my life. I don't have four years o'this stuff, I've got like 40.

Yes, I can be arrogant, but not when it comes to my passions. The more you learn the more you learn you don't know squat and how much there is to learn and how badly you WANT to learn it, and learn as much as you can - but know you won't know it all. (WHEW!) I give freely of what I do know and beg to know more. I admit this. And while what I do I do to make a living, this ideal comes across. And I see it daily in the work force. The hiring of the Boomers over the Millineiums. Because they come in with their demands, it has to be done NOW, and everything is immediate satisfication/gratification and businesses and life in general just aren't that way.

I've had more companies and people take a chance on me - and be very happy for doing so - than I can shake a stick at. And I thank them all from the bottom of my heart. Because I'm not arrogant, I want to learn, and I'm willing to work to make it happen.

Skills can be learned. Personality is intrinsic. Anyone can get an education. Not everyone is intelligent and can use that education wisely. There are educated idiots. I was married to one.

[NikkiSixx]

I recommend that you do your best to get good grades in algebra (or calculus) as well as chemistry or biology (especially AP classes). Get it out of the way in high school, so you don't have to redo it in college! These subjects are usually always prerequisites for any of the science majors.

Steve
well....
Im in wildlife bio, and chem., and have taken bio before. Algebra/Calculus isn't my best subject, but im doing pretty good in it i guess. I am taking algebra 2. Calculus next year... mabe. :)

[Lulu Bennett]

I started college last monday, studying Science and first diploma level. I have been and bought my labcoat and all my things. only 3 years in college before i go to Uni study studying 'Wildlife conservation with Zoo Biology'. I am counting down the days.
I am sending in my application tomorrow so i can volunteer at London Zoo next summer.

[infernalis]

That is so cool Lu:D

[drache]

very cool, Lu

[Lulu Bennett]

Bad news guys. i didn't get the placement but it gives me the oppertunity to join you guys for the world meeting :D

[drache]

oh no! cool we get to meet though