keeled scales

[big J]

hi guys, the other day i was at my local herpetological society(that is one confusing word ha ha) and was asked why garters scales are so keeled. I realy haven't the slightest clue how to answer that question. Another member in the group suggested that it might be becuase that snakes slither through loose debris and that the keels help keep the debris out from between the scales. I would realy like to know the correct answer to that question

[Stefan-A]

I've been wondering about that myself. The problem is that it seems to appear in snakes that have nothing really in common with each other as far as habits go. Both our adders and grass snakes have keeled scales. One thrives in dry areas and eats lizards and rodents (although it is pretty active for a viperid), the other is very much like a garter in its lifestyle, is usually found near water and feeds on fish and amphibians. I just use these two as examples, because they have so very little in common. They have different lifestyles and are not closely related and not all colubrids and viperids have keeled scales. But I don't see debris getting stuck between the scales on those that don't.

But what do keeled scales do? They at least increase the surface area of the scale and the whole snake. They would cool down faster, but also possibly heat up quicker. Keels might improve grip, if they weren't specifically dorsal scales and thus not usually in contact with anything, unless the snake is swimming, but not all snakes that have them swim regularly. The keeled scales could at least in theory improve the camouflage of snakes, more specifically diurnal ones, but then again, not all diurnal snakes have them, either.

If anybody can come up with an explanation that doesn't involve the supernatural, I'd be interested in hearing it. ;)

[GartersRock]

Me too. :D

[gregmonsta]

I think it would help them to grip slippery prey?

[Stefan-A]

Well, those that eat slippery prey are rarely constrictors. And many, perhaps most, that have keeled scales aren't constrictors.

[GartersRock]

Yeah, none of my keeled scaled snakes are contrictors. Sometimes when the prey is being difficult they will turn their head to the side and hold in on their side for a sec though... But I doubt that is the main purpose. Hmmm....

[gregmonsta]

Gripping slippery rocks? rofl

[GartersRock]

The keeled scales are on the top though. :D

[Stefan-A]

Gripping slippery rocks? rofl
Then the ventral scales would be keeled. ;)

[gregmonsta]

Damn ... well they love to climb ... :) ...... but I think the surface area idea wins .... stegasaurus influenced of course :D

[Stefan-A]

Damn ... well they love to climb ... :) ...... but I think the surface area idea wins .... stegasaurus influenced of course :D
Maybe. I think that the biggest advantage is still that they make the snake less conspicuous. It'd be fun to see if there's any sort of correlation between diurnal habits and keeled scales, or crepuscular/nocturnal habits and smooth scales. Coral snake mimics and subterranean species should be excluded. ;) Maybe the top 10 most venomous species as well.

[Zephyr]

How about threat displays? Perhaps the keeled scales intensify the colors of a flattened snake significantly more than non-keeled scales.
If you look at garters when they inflate and flatten out, their colors do look extremely intensified, and to a predator that detects the bright color as a threat or as possibly toxic meal it would help deter their attack.
Possibly? lol

[Stefan-A]

Not very likely that the keeled scales would have anything to do with it.

[Zephyr]

Then I'd have to go with the heating up/cooling down theory.
Unless they provide defensive purposes... Like plating...
Though it could be both. We'd need to know if garters are the first or the last snakes into brumation as well.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

My 6 foot king rat snake has the msot keeled scales of any snake I have ever touched (besides a file snake or elephant trunk). If you rub your hadn sideways on him... he feels like a big file!

The only thing that I see that keels do to a snake for sure, is make it less shiny :D

[Zephyr]

The only thing that I see that keels do to a snake for sure, is make it less shiny :D
Hmm... I guess for a snake that basks often or is often out in the open dull-ness would make it harder for predators to spot...
Of course we could just be blowing things out of proportion; they could just be there with no noteworthy purpose. XD

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Of course we could just be blowing things out of proportion; they could just be there with no noteworthy purpose. XD

that is exactly where I was getting with that :cool::D:rolleyes:;)

[big J]

wow shannon I just chekced out that king ratsnake and it is gorgeous. so i see that we have way different opinions about this subject. maybe i'll email scott and alan francis to see what they have to say about it.

[big J]

scott had emailed me back today and he hasn't a clue although he says that wanderings scales are not keeled Interesting i think. so not all garters have keeled scales

[Zephyr]

They aren't keeled? o.o

[GartersRock]

Huh. I have 5 wanderings. I never noticed that... I will have to look at them later. lol!

[ssssnakeluvr]

thats odd..every wandering I've seen has keeled scale....may not be as distinct as others but they are keeled

[Stefan-A]

scott had emailed me back today and he hasn't a clue although he says that wanderings scales are not keeled Interesting i think. so not all garters have keeled scales
He might want to have a closer look.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakesies08/keels-vagrans1.jpg

[big J]

according to the pic i think scott has lost a few screws if you know what i mean
maybe this whole keeled scale thing will remain a mystery

[Stefan-A]

What were his exact words? The scales are keeled, but not as heavily keeled as on my parietalis, for example.

[Zephyr]

I'd be kinda scared if Scott actually said they have unkeeled scales... lol

[GartersRock]

Lol! Yep, all 5 are keeled. loL!!

[big J]

scotts words where exactly what i said. i have already deleted the email or i would have quoted it directly

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Possibly he interprets it a bit differently. From spending much of the Daytona show at his table... I learned that his eyesight is a little bit off. But trust me, he's not lost any screws, and hes not a crazy person :)

[GartersRock]

lol!! Yeah, he isn't crazy... Like that. :D Did you ask him just how many garters he really has Shanley?

[Snake lover 3-25]

what who????:confused:

[GartersRock]

I mean Shannon. Rofl!!!!! :D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

no, actually, I did not :)

I know he has a kaboodle of them.

[GartersRock]

I am sure he has hundreds. lol!!

[adamanteus]

My vagrans certainly have keeled scales.
I think someone already mentioned that keeled scales reflect light differently, making the snake less glossy in appearance. This is an aid to camouflage in snakes which spend much of their time in the open or in light cover, rather than in dense undergrowth. Heavily keeled scales are typical of the 'ambush vipers' and similar groups which will lie out in full view but remain unseen.

[Garter_Gertie]

James, I love having you around. You're like big walking, talking book on snakes. You know the not-so-common stuff, the highlights, the icing on the cake stuff. Trivia, better informed, more knowledge stuff. You're a good teacher.

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol I TOTALLY agree!!!!:D

[crzy_kevo]

i agree too between him and stefan there is a ton of information on snakes and even spiders( in james' case)