Quick question

[siyuntz]

Hi all,

Pretty simple question, I guess... I picked up some rosy red minnows from the store yesterday. Tonight is feeding night, and when I looked at the fish, they all had died. They were in a small bowl with no aeration, maybe I need to get a better tank? Should I try feeding my garter anyway? Is there any diseases I should be concerned about? Will he even take a dead fish? I have some meal worms in the fridge I could substitute. Any advice is appreciated.

[Garter_Gertie]

From what I understand your garter won't eat the meal worms.

I'll let others tell you about how many and how often to feed the rosies.

But, yes. Feed your garter. Depending on age will eat from like three to five rosies. The rest, freeze.

Others, better than I, will give you more info.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am going to paste this in from where I posted it elsewhere:

live feeders are fine as long as they are guppies. The more commonly sold goldfish and rosy minnows you often see contain Thiaminase which is an enzyme that prevents your snake from absorbing his vitamin b1 and can be harmful, most likely fatal to him. If you have a picky eater, start feeding live feeder guppies (please make sure they are guppies), and switch to thawed out salmon, tilapia, or trout, all available at the deli section in the supermarket. You want it to be raw, unsalted... you get the idea. Buy a portion, cut it into little fishy sized pieces and store in the freezer, much cheaper than feeding live feeders and perfectly healthy.

Some people may argue that rosies and goldfish can be fed sparingly... but i say.. why take the chance when there are other methods that are every bit as easy out there? Not to mention, 100% safe. Why possibly compromise the snakes health even a tiny bit?

For worms, I cut up larger worms into pieces for my baby garters to eat. I personally use night crawlers, many people have a problem with them being too thick, but I have a little trick to remedy that. Take a night crawler and hold him with tweezers or tongs under the hot running water of your sink. The hot water washes the worm off, provides a quick death and straightens and stretches him out as thin as he gets all in one shot. I never have a problem getting my babies to swallow these pieces. If you have small earthworms you can use them instead, but don't feed the red wrigglers, they are usually sold at stores as trout bait, they are reddish in color and they have visible light colored rings that earthworms dont have. THey secrete a bad smelling (and I would imagine tasting) yellow liquid when provoked.

As for pinkies, you can start using pinky chunks (affectionately called "plunks" by me) right now. Some baby garters will give you real trouble, but no need to worry. What I do, is I feed all the babies alternating meals of worms and fish for their first month of life. Once they are very used to the eating routine, I start to add in the pinkies. I usually add them in with the worms. I cut up about 3 night crawlers after running them under the hot water and I have all those worm chunks on a little tupperware lid, with just the tiniest bit of water. I then cut up a whole pinky, exculding the skull, and mix those pieces onto this dish and once all teh pink parts are thouroughly covered I just let it sit for about a half hour to let the smells really soak in. Then I feed, and I place each baby onto my hand and after getting one or two worm pieces, I follow it with a pinky piece. 9.5 times out of 10.... I see absolutely NO hesitation. Occasionally, you will have one that detects the weird texture of the pinky and gets freaked out by it. Little by little, the snakes get used to the flavor and texture of pinkies and I have to use less worms. Since you just have one... I suggest cutting the pinky while it is still frozen and leaving the rest in the freezer for another time.

Now, when you do get your garter eating pinkies, just be sure to still feed other things. You want a good varied diet, since pinkies are pretty fattening. My garters all get about 50% pinkies, 25% worm and 25% fish, both large and small. My garters also get the occasional treat of little salamanders from my yard, some people don't feed amphibians but I do when the opportunity arrises. They ATTACK them.... they seem to be the caviar of the garter world.

I hope this helps you and you garter out a little bit. Feed your baby garter at least every 3-4 days, I feed every 3 days, many feed every other day. And i think you were just a tad bit confused on the garters "natural" diet. If you truely are aiming to feed your snake a realistically natural diet, you would be feeding exclusively fish, worms, and amphibians, seeing as garters would rarely eat mice in the wild, if ever at all. There should never be a need to use pre-killed rodents to switch onto f/t... garters are not primarily rodent eaters.

[Garter_Gertie]

ShanNici, I've searched ALL OVER the Twin Cities area for feeder guppies and I are outta luck!

So, I go with the idea just a few, once or twice a month, are better than no fish at all with bones, eyes, brains, et al.

I'm doin' the bestest I can.

[Hornets23]

No feeder guppies?? Thats strange..I live in a very small area and they have them here. Did you actually ask for them? Perhaps they dont have them out where you can see them? The store is pet supplies plus..I dont know if thats a chain they would have where you are.

[Zephyr]

Some people may argue that rosies and goldfish can be fed sparingly... but i say.. why take the chance when there are other methods that are every bit as easy out there? Not to mention, 100% safe. Why possibly compromise the snakes health even a tiny bit?



You're not compromising your snakes health by feeding them a naturally occurring cyprinid prey item. If you get lazy and only feed them rosies or goldfish, issues will arise not only from nutrient deficiencies (thiaminase poisoning ranking near the top) but possibly from a lack of interest in the snake to eat in general or to eat anything else. Rosies are good treats; they have much more "fresh fishy" odor than salmon, trout, or tilapia and are good appetite stimulates, and they contain xanthines which are natural color boosters.

From dead fish, I don't believe there are any reported diseases aside from thiaminase poisoning.

I have garters who will lunge at freshly dead fish; don't let them rot though.

Garters don't appear to generally accept insects as prey, but it has been done. Although I wouldn't suggest mealworms; their exoskeleton has too much chitin.

[Garter_Gertie]

Christa, yeah. "Do you have feeder guppies?"

"No. We have minnows. Rosie reds."

Petco, PetSmart. No feeder guppies.

[Hornets23]

That stinks...its just the opposite here...I went looking for rosie reds thinking they were the way to go but only found feeder guppies. I guess it ended up being a good thing though.

[siyuntz]

Thanks all, especially aSnakeLovinBabe. (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/../members/asnakelovinbabe.html)
I am more concerned for the moment. He ate last friday, but so far is expressing no interest in the dead minnow. I will try to get some earthworms or night crawlers tomorrow. Should I remove the fish from his water bowl and put it in his "dish" (mayonnaise jar lid, thoroghly washed). Good to know about the guppies; The PetSmart near me only sells comets and rosies, but getting salmon in Portland, OR isn't especially hard, so hopefully he'll like that, and as you say, it would actually be cheaper and more convenient. I'll mix it up with worms, and 'plonks' too. I work in medical science, and though I don't have any mouse colonies, I know a few ppl who do, and could get a good pinky source pretty easily. A week and a half into garter ownership, drama! LOL

[Hornets23]

Here is a weird thing i do to get my snakes interested in peices of f/t tilapia...I feed them in a clear container...like a tupperware container...and then i put my finger under the fish against the plastic and wiggle/move it a bit. The movement gets their attention.

[jitami]

Christa, that is a great idea! I'm lovin all the tips lately!

Gertie, I haven't been able to find feeder guppies here, either... only fancy male guppies and they're pricey and too big for the babies anyway. I do get Sly rosie reds about every 6 weeks and it hasn't caused any problems, but I'd love to find guppies. I live in a metropolitan area, too. There has to be feeder guppies here somewhere...