Opinions needed!

[jitami]

First, let me say that I'm never looking for a garter again :p When I'm just going about my business they seem to find me :D So I'm walking out to my driveway tonight... in the middle of the suburbs... when a quick movement startles me. It's a nice sized garter snake, T. e. elegans, who quickly cruises under our boat... in our driveway... Yes, I took a picture or two and will share them tomorrow :)

Now for the opinion part... I didn't feel good about leaving it in the driveway in the suburbs, so for now it's in a 10g tank, a good distance away from Sly and the babies. Here are the options and I could really use your help deciding what to do...

Do I let it go back where I found it? Scurrying between our flower bed and driveway? We all have manicured lawns most have landscapers...lots of asphalt, cement, a pool here and there, dogs, cats, cars, and lawns mown once a week. He/She is good size so must have been doing ok out there, but :confused:

I could take him/her to the nearby greenbelt creek where Sly was caught and release it there, but again doesn't seem ideal :confused:

Do I keep it? :confused: If so, what kind of time frame and procedures am I looking at for quarantine, etc?

I truly want what's best for the snake. I didn't have any intentions of keeping another wild caught garter. It would put my right at my "bag limit" for native species so no biggie there, but... yeah...Help! Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I need them all!

Thanks guys...

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

well its up to you, letting it go by the creek would be fine but as long as you can offer it a good home i see no reason why you shouldn't keep it. Your decision. A good quarantine would be 1-2 months.

[Elliot]

Well the choice is yours, but I wouldn't let it go away from where you found it because it could have a disease that you could inadvertantly spread to another population.

[GartersRock]

Eh.... I would just keep him given the circumstances if you are up to it.

[infernalis]

Tami - That is a tough call, Ultimately your call:eek:

Myself, I would probably keep it considering the circumstances.

I know how I would feel if I were to return it to the driveway, and then found it expired in the road, or sidewalk the next day.

Although that's just me Mr. Pessimistic, always wondering "what if" and imagining worse case scenarios.

[anji1971]

If you have the means to keep him, and he seems to adjust well to captivity, then I see no issue in doing so.
Unless you can pinpoint the area he came from originally, which is difficult at best in a city/suburb environment. Any open fields, or undeveloped areas nearby?
I would also be hesitant to just let him go back in the driveway to fend off the traffic, dogs, cats and lawnmowers.
But then again, I'm always up for an excuse to keep another snake..........;)

[Garter_Gertie]

I'm with Dekay, Lor, and Anj.

I could never justify putting the kid back in the driveway in such a populated area. And the lawn care maintance folks (you rich????????) are gonna hoe that thing to death if they come across it. Cats will eat it, cars will smash it, your neighbors will scream in horror and run.

If it were me - you wanted my opinion... - if I decided not to keep it (and I would if I had the tank, substrate, heater(s), blah, blah, blah [which I currently DON'T have...] - I take the poor thing to as woody, wet, happy-snakey kind'a place I could find. I'd not worry about different populations and all that if it's a given area of a couple miles or so. Two hours away? Nah. I'd not do that.

So, kiddo! Whatcha gonna name the new kid?! :)

[jitami]

LOL... no Gertie, I'm not rich and my kid has to mow our lawn :) But the house on either side of me and the house across the street all have landscapers... and yes, their lawns look better than mine :rolleyes: Middle class, lots of families with two parents working and I guess it's just easier to hire someone. Yeah, I don't think releasing it back where I found it is going to work. The creek might... it's about a third of a mile away, not hundreds :) But, yeah, I'm thinking it's going to stay here... or possibly go to a friend's house... I would make sure it's eating well, healthy and all set up. If it were a male I'd be happy to quarantine it then let it share digs with Sly, but just on appearance I would guess it's a female and while she doesn't look gravid I'm hoping the wild girls here have already had their babies! They should have, it's a hot climate with an early spring. I didn't want to stress her out any more than necessary and it was already doing a good deal of striking so she's just relaxing for a bit. She doesn't seemed stressed by captivity, tho. This morning she was curled up in one of my awesome cup holder hides :D. And now she's hanging out of it looking out the front of the terrarium scoping out the kitchen :)

[Garter_Gertie]

Well! Congratulations, Mom! You're lookin' good for just having given birth! :)

Pics! WE WANT PICS! And what would be a good name for her? Cinderella? The poor step-child? :)

Oh! P.S. Prolly why you got her and the neighbors didn't. Less chemicals and less perfect and maintained yard. YOU GO, GIRLFIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zephyr]

And if you DO decide to release it, do it right near what could possibly act as a snake den or near a known snake den. :)

[GartersRock]

Cool!! Good luck with her!!

[jitami]

Pics as promised :D

In driveway...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer2.jpg

[jitami]

You wanna piece of me?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Newcomer4.jpg

And here's a habitat shot showing my house...or very close, these things are always off... and the little baby greenbelt creek... as you can see there are some fields up above my house, but they're on either side of a trailer park and there's really not much room there, either.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/TheHood.jpg

[jitami]

Obviously she's in a very simple set up right now and it was set up very quickly around 11pm last night so ignore any mess you see :D

Is it safe to assume she has mites? How long should I give her to settle down before I really inspect her. With her propensity to strike I'm not looking forward to that, but maybe she won't be quite as freaked out this time around.

Oh, and anyone want to guess on the sex from these limited pics? :D I really haven't gotten a good look at her cloaca area, but she does seem to have a shorter tail than Sly.

[GartersRock]

Female I am pretty sure!! She is GORGEOUS!! Such high yellow! Wow!!! Wow, wow, wow. I want her. lol!

[jitami]

Thanks Amanda :D

[infernalis]

That is Beautiful!!!! Nice....:D

Woo Hoo happy dance fur sure!!!!

Nice find Tami - Got a name yet.?????

[Garter_Gertie]

'Rockster, drop dead. I dibs her. You're outta luck.

Send her to me! She's a sweetie! An Eastern; yellow where Winnie is greenish. And she's sssssoooo lllloooonnnnggg!

Winnie, the WC park garter never had mites... Or doesn't have mites. Or has no mites we've seen or have given Winnie probs. AND... Winnie's shown NO SIGNS o'parasites... So maybe *my new girl* won't have any either.

When should I xpect her? (Poop on you, 'Rockster!)

I have named her Ellacinders.

[Garter_Gertie]

'Rockster, don't EVEN begin to argue with me!

You've SIXTY snakes! I've FOUR! Not fair if you get her! I need to increas my numbers!

So don't whine, don't argue, don't pout. COME ON! Share the JOY!

She's mine. End o'story.

Period.

[anji1971]

She's beautiful, Tami! The yellow dorsal stripe is stunning.:)
What's that large area in the upper right of your little map? Looks like there's a pond in there. I'm wondering if, because of it's close proximity to your home, she may have come from that area. Ponds are natural snake congregation places!

[infernalis]

She's a sweetie! An Eastern; yellow where Winnie is greenish

Uh Gert, That snake is a Thamnophis Elegans, Tami said that in her first post.


it's a nice sized garter snake, T. e. elegans..

Eastern Garter Snakes are Thamnophis Sirtalis, not the same:eek:

[Garter_Gertie]

Okay, Mr. Snooty-Pooty-Correcty. Yeah, you're rite. And your point udder than I was way wrong is what?

Do I love her or want her less? No! Does that make her less pretty to me? No! Does that mean 'Rockster gets her? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! No! No!!!

"A rose by anyudder name still smells as sweet" or sumpin' along those lines.

[Charlet_2007]

WOW BEAUTIFUL snake!! :D:D:D:D It seems happy by the look on its little cute snaky face ohh i just want to pinch its widdle cheek...

[Garter_Gertie]

Yeah. She does look happy and content, doesn't she? Shame Tami doesn't want her and *I* get her, huh? I think she's gonna be like Winnie - EVEN THOUGH Ella's NOT an Eastern - and settle into captivity very well. Not a scaredy-cat, that Ella girl! Nope! Very interested in what's going on.

I can't wait to get her!

[GartersRock]

Rofl!!!! HAHAHA! I love you Gertie!!! :D

[Garter_Gertie]

'Ster, I love you too! You're a good woman.

((((('Ster)))))

[bio6464]

Beautiful snake Tami, I think she'll be very happy with you...you obviously care very much or you wouldn't have gone to all this trouble finding out what's in her best interest. :D She may have come into town looking for food or water, if you release her she'll probably return, perhaps meeting a less gracious neighbor. I have no doubt you will provide her with a loving home...congrats, she's precious.
Jerry

[Odie]

Keep her :cool:
By the map she seems to have traveled at least 6 blocks :o

[Charlet_2007]

13 blocks at the most lmao

[infernalis]

Okay, Mr. Snooty-Pooty-Correcty. Yeah, you're rite. And your point udder than I was way wrong is what?


Your udderly loveable reply is why:D

[jitami]

I love you guys :D

Anji, you have a great eye! I didn't even know that was there.... now I'm going to go look for it and see if I can get to it :D The school by the "creek" is .3 miles from here and it looks like the pond is about the same. I'm going to have to look at the map some more! There's an elementary school over there and a new housing development. Across the street from that they just built a new golf course & housing development maybe 2 years ago...sigh...

Ok, someone else dibbed her privately before all of you, but if I can handle her easily she's going to stay here... and Ella sounds like a lovely name Gertie :)

So, just how bad does a garter bite hurt? I know it's not supposed to hurt... and I agree with Kyle & Wayne when they say that animals know when you're nervous and react accordingly.... I see she's pooped so I'm going to have to at least move her around a bit anyway. I'm out of bleach but if she's going to stay I'll need to evict the babies from their 20L and switch them to her tank and vise versa. I'll do that in the next couple of days. She does seem rather settled. It makes me wonder if some of the younger local kids didn't drag her home from the creek and keep her captive for a while. She seems to be in great shape, though, so who knows.

Thanks again guys... gonna go zoom into that map and see about checking out that pond :D

[anji1971]

Tami,garter bites don't hurt too much. Deejay likes to gnaw on my fingers if I don't get the fish scent from her meals washed off completely before I transfer her from the feed bin back to her tank. It's a kind of tingly feeling, and the fact that she looks absolutely ridiculous hanging from my finger until she decides I don't taste good and spits me out is far worth the discomfort!:D

[jitami]

Thanks Anji. I just need to get over the jumping when they strike then! I had grabbed and dropped her when she struck at me out in the driveway and I did the same thing with the couchii in the river. Silly...

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol meadow bit me when i caught her..... she held on for 5 mins and had to be pryed off.... but after all of that all i had was a few tiny scratches and it didn't hurt a bit :D

[jitami]

Ok, and Meadow and Deejay are both good sized girls, right... so I should be ok... lol

[jitami]

Planning a drive by later, but we're actually thinking the pond is not in/under the new housing development... I want this house!!! Looks like it has a nice big shop for hubby, too :D I'm buying lotto tickets and starting to pack now...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Pond2.jpg

[Garter_Gertie]

Man! You could be like Dekay then and have your own snake world right outside your back door! SWEET!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol yup meadow is aprox. 31"

[jitami]

Man, I suck! Decided to just work around her, which isn't the easiest in a 10 gallon tank and still had her totally stressed out :( I feel horrible for stressing her so much when someone more experienced could have probably picked her up and had her settled down in an instant. I really felt sorry for her and am tearing up just thinking about it. :(

Good news is that she must have eaten the nightcrawler I put in with her last night.

Off to grandmas for the afternoon... take care everyone...

[anji1971]

Tami, see how she settles in for a few days. If she's eating for you, she may end up not being as stressed after a time. It's always hard at first, because they are nervous -- even the captive born ones get distressed by environmental changes. If you don't notice her calming down, or you find you aren't able to relax enough with her after a week or so, then you can think of alternatives. But for right now, if you're interested in keeping her, then wait it out for a bit and see how she fares.
By the way, Deejay is a good sized girl. She's 31" long. And sometimes I still jump when she strikes!;)

[GartersRock]

I agree! If she is eating. She can't be TOO stressed. :D

[jitami]

Thanks Anji & Amanda. She settles down when left alone and as long as I'm quiet and still I can watch her without stressing her, but she just freaks when I get near her. I think the bigger tank will help since she'll have more space to get away from me while I'm changing water or whatever. I'll get it figured out... just felt bad that she had seemed so calm and after less than a minute of me messing around in her tank she was lifted up, S shaped, ready to strike, and looking scared to death. I'm sure we'll get the hang of it.

[anji1971]

After a while, she'll most likely realise that you're not a threat to her, and remain calm when you get close. There are always those nervous types that just never quite get used to us, though. All you can do is wait and see. Best of luck!

[jitami]

Guess who just ate a pinky??? :D :D :D

Yay! I'm thrilled!!! I really wasn't expecting her to. Just thought I'd give it a try. WooHoo!

Scented it with worm first and she let it set for probably 45 minutes. I pulled it out, brained it, and set it in front of her hide. That did the trick! Awesome! Will make life lots easier in the long run :D

Quadrupled the number of snakes in my house within 5 days and all are eating mice or mice parts. Sweet :D

[GartersRock]

YAAYYY!! Congrats!

[Garter_Gertie]

WHOA! There's a Snake Nerd in the making! Hehehehehe! Gittin' to be a real pro, there Ja'Tam! W00T! YOU GO, GULLFIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you picked yet the species/sub-species you're gonna breed? Hehehehehe!

Now then, bite the bullet, pick them up, barf when you smell your hand, and then give them a kiss. Then fur shure you'll be a Snake Nerd.

[jitami]

I be lucky to escape with my lips if I picked this one up and gave her a kiss :D

[infernalis]

Wanna kiss Chomper MK?:eek:

[Zephyr]

Guess who just ate a pinky??? :D :D :D

Yay! I'm thrilled!!! I really wasn't expecting her to. Just thought I'd give it a try. WooHoo!

Scented it with worm first and she let it set for probably 45 minutes. I pulled it out, brained it, and set it in front of her hide. That did the trick! Awesome! Will make life lots easier in the long run :D

Quadrupled the number of snakes in my house within 5 days and all are eating mice or mice parts. Sweet :D
My elegans show no interest in worms; but they always take to mice. :)

[jitami]

Yeah, I've always heard they take mice more readily than some other species. Sly was super easy to switch, too.

[Garter_Gertie]

Wayne, you're a beast and SICK!

No. I do not want to kiss Chomper. Unless I can get him in a muzzle hold and he not out strength me. Then, yes. I'd cover his cute widdo fat, blunt nose in TONS o'kisses. He is a sweetie and so cute! I'd love to kiss him, but fear for the appendeges on my face!