How do I switch to f/t mice?

[Topaz]

I'm sure I probably have a long ways to go before considering to switch my baby garter to prekilled mice, but when the time comes I'd like to be prepared. I thought that maybe the sooner the better, but she's obviously way too small for it now (about 4 weeks old.) She's eating vigorously on worms right now (will be getting feeder guppies this weekend.)

For those of you who switched to a rodent diet, how did you do it? Braining? Scenting? Is switching them to mice healthier? Any advice and/or sites with info would be appreciated!

And just for fun, a picture of Inyoka eating a worm :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/bloodraven951/DSCN1948.jpg

[Elliot]

Just scent the mouse with worms or guppies. And yes, mice are a balanced diet, but I'd still supplement with at least calcium, and I still use a multivitamin powder every once in a while too.

[crzy_kevo]

i agree with elliot scent with w/e they are used to eating if they dont take the pinks right away and use a multivitamin every one in a while the calcium might not be needed as much because of the bones in the pinks but it wouldn't hurt :D

[Elliot]

i agree with elliot scent with w/e they are used to eating if they dont take the pinks right away and use a multivitamin every one in a while the calcium might not be needed as much because of the bones in the pinks but it wouldn't hurt :D

Well the reason I mentioned the calcium is because the bones in the pinks aren't very well developed.

[crzy_kevo]

ahh yes very true

i dont have the money to pay for f/t pinkies so i tend to use f/t w/c frogs but if you are to do that then i would suggest going to several different ponds to get the frogs as to not wipe them out :D

[Topaz]

ahh yes very true

i dont have the money to pay for f/t pinkies so i tend to use f/t w/c frogs but if you are to do that then i would suggest going to several different ponds to get the frogs as to not wipe them out :D


No ponds around here. I've read different things from different sources. I've read that feeding amphibians increases the chance of the garter getting a disease, and I've read it's better to go with a natural diet. I feel more comfortable using rodents if it's a complete diet instead of worrying if the snake is getting everything she needs.

Before I got the garter, I read it's best to get them on f/t pinkie parts. I tried it once scented with worms and she ignored it.

[jitami]

Sorry was letting the dogs out while you posted that you had tried "parts" already...

Topaz, if you have other animals already eating pinkies or fuzzies and have the pinkies on hand, you can start mixing in a little bit with the worms and fish now. What I did today was cut the back legs & tail off of a frozen pinky. My adult was offered the rest of the pinky and the babies got the legs/tail with some fish fillet. One of the babies, same age as yours, ate one of the legs/tail. It's hard to describe, and if you're easily offended please quit reading now, but I just cut straight across the anal area of the mouse, which left me with two back legs and a tail connected, which in a straight line was no bigger than the small worm you're feeding. I find it easier to cut the pinky while it's frozen, or very slightly thawed, other's disagree :) I watched the baby eat it and it was a bit large, but not too bad.

[crzy_kevo]

actually frogs are a natural part of many garters diet they love them thing and yes frogs can carry parasites but it isn't totally proven that those parasites can be transfered over to the snake as well freezing the frogs for a few days kills the parasites inside them and a frog has problably just as much goodness for a garter as a pinky with less fat

[Topaz]

We tried legs and the tail with chopped worms and she just went for the worms. We now have no other animals eating pinkies or fuzzies, so the rest of the mouse would end up getting tossed (just switch the little BP to adult f/t mice.) We broke the legs and tail off while it was still frozen, and they came off easily and thawed quicker than anything else we've had to feed.

I have another question about fish. I know most people feed the live fish, which is what I plan on buying this weekend. Are there any frozen fish that can be bought from a pet store to feed? I saw some in the same freezer with the frozen rodents, but they looked way too big for the little baby.

[Stefan-A]

Actually Kevin, it's pretty well established that some can be transfered to the snake and freezing doesn't kill all parasites.

[Hornets23]

I get tilapia from the grocery store and cut it into appropriate sized bites.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

that worm kinda looks like a red wiggler, is it?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I saw a lot of good advice in here, but i didn't see anyone give a full description and healthy diet plan consisting of a balanced varied diet.... so I'll do that now :)

I see you asked a question pertaining to fish. live feeders are fine as long as they are guppies. The more commonly sold goldfish and minnows you often see contain Thiaminase which is an enzyme that prevents your snake from absorbing his vitamin b1 and will in the long run, kill him. If you have a picky eater, start feeding live feeder guppies (please make sure they are guppies), and switch to thawed out salmon, tilapia, or trout, all available at the deli section in the supermarket. You want it to be raw, unsalted... you get the idea. Buy a portion, cut it into little fishy sized pieces and store in the freezer, much cheaper than feeding live feeders and perfectly healthy.

For worms, I cut up larger worms into pieces for my baby garters to eat. I personally use night crawlers, many people have a problem with them being too thick, but I have a little trick to remedy that. Take a night crawler and hold him with tweezers or tongs under the hot running water of your sink. The hot water washes the worm off, provides a quick death and straightens and stretches him out as thin as he gets all in one shot. I never have a problem getting my babies to swallow these pieces. If you have small earthworms you can use them instead, but don't feed the red wrigglers, they are usually sold at stores as trout bait, they are reddish in color and they have visible light colored rings that earthworms dont have. THey secrete a bad smelling (and I would imagine tasting) yellow liquid when provoked.

As for pinkies, you can start using pinky chunks (affectionately called "plunks" by me) right now. Some baby garters will give you real trouble, but no need to worry. What I do, is I feed all the babies alternating meals of worms and fish for their first month of life. Once they are very used to the eating routine, I start to add in the pinkies. I usually add them in with the worms. I cut up about 3 night crawlers after running them under the hot water and I have all those worm chunks on a little tupperware lid, with just the tiniest bit of water. I then cut up a whole pinky, exculding the skull, and mix those pieces onto this dish and once all teh pink parts are thouroughly covered I just let it sit for about a half hour to let the smells really soak in. Then I feed, and I place each baby onto my hand and after getting one or two worm pieces, I follow it with a pinky piece. 9.5 times out of 10.... I see absolutely NO hesitation. Occasionally, you will have one that detects the weird texture of the pinky and gets freaked out by it. Little by little, the snakes get used to the flavor and texture of pinkies and I have to use less worms. Since you just have one... I suggest cutting the pinky while it is still frozen and leaving the rest in the freezer for another time.

Now, when you do get your garter eating pinkies, just be sure to still feed other things. You want a good varied diet, since pinkies are pretty fattening. My garters all get about 50% pinkies, 25% worm and 25% fish, both large and small. My garters also get the occasional treat of little salamanders from my yard, some people don't feed amphibians but I do when the opportunity arrises. They ATTACK them.... they seem to be the caviar of the garter world.

I hope this helps you and you garter out a little bit. Feed your baby garter at least every 3-4 days, I feed every 3 days, many feed every other day. And i think you were just a tad bit confused on the garters "natural" diet. If you truely are aiming to feed your snake a realistically natural diet, you would be feeding exclusively fish, worms, and amphibians, seeing as garters would rarely eat mice in the wild, if ever at all. There should never be a need to use pre-killed rodents to switch onto f/t... garters are not primarily rodent eaters.

[jitami]

Awesome post Shannon! Tons of great info there! Can't wait to try the nightcrawler tip!

[Topaz]

Thanks everyone for all your advice. I have no idea what type of worm that was, just that I bought it from Petco for the water dragon and opossum. Well, tonight we bought some nightcrawlers and yesterday she ate some feeder guppies. AT first she acted like she didn't know what it was, then she dove right in.

Thanks so much Shannon for your post! It's very useful info that we're putting to use!

[GartersRock]

NICE post Shannon! And great tip with the nightcrawlers!

[Zephyr]

I see you asked a question pertaining to fish. live feeders are fine as long as they are guppies. The more commonly sold goldfish and minnows you often see contain Thiaminase which is an enzyme that prevents your snake from absorbing his vitamin b1 and will in the long run, kill him. If you have a picky eater, start feeding live feeder guppies (please make sure they are guppies), and switch to thawed out salmon, tilapia, or trout, all available at the deli section in the supermarket. You want it to be raw, unsalted... you get the idea. Buy a portion, cut it into little fishy sized pieces and store in the freezer, much cheaper than feeding live feeders and perfectly healthy.

Very nice post Shannon, I only have a problem with this little part.

Although both goldfish and rosies CAN cause thiamine-absorbtion problems after feeding them exclusively, there's nothing wrong with feeding them as an occasional treat or as part of a carefully scheduled dietary plan; I give my smaller garters rosies about once every two weeks and the larger ones goldfish on the same schedule. Both of these food items contain, especially goldfish, high levels of xanthines, which are natural color enhancers, which will bring out the reds and oranges in your garters. Also, "fishing" is a good form of stimulation for your garter.

So you can feed them, just vary the diet. :)

[jitami]

Btw, used the nightcrawler tip and it works like a charm!!!

Still moving away from nightcrawlers asap, tho. Just too messy... one of the baby boys was practically swimming in nightcrawler guts and his brother was giving him the evil eye, so mealtime got interrupted and both boys got baths yesterday. Was a nice chance to handle the little guys, but had planned on letting them settle in a bit more first.

[Zephyr]

Also a tip on nightcrawlers, it may sound a little nasty but it's better than guts all over; "Wring" the dirt out of them before you cut them up by firmly grabbing below the clitellum (the "band" on the worm) and sliding your fingers down to the bottom of the worm.

[GartersRock]

Another good nightcrawler tip Zephyr!

[Hornets23]

That is a good idea. I wasn't really liking all of that dirt/guts.

[RichardA]

I scent with a Leopard Frog.

[Stefan-A]

Also a tip on nightcrawlers, it may sound a little nasty but it's better than guts all over; "Wring" the dirt out of them before you cut them up by firmly grabbing below the clitellum (the "band" on the worm) and sliding your fingers down to the bottom of the worm.
Put them in water for a few minutes and they'll usually do it themselves. ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Also a tip on nightcrawlers, it may sound a little nasty but it's better than guts all over; "Wring" the dirt out of them before you cut them up by firmly grabbing below the clitellum (the "band" on the worm) and sliding your fingers down to the bottom of the worm.

good point here!!!

I actually do do that myself, but I wasn't sure how weird it would sound..... so I left that part out :D

[infernalis]

I scent with a Leopard Frog.

I'll try that for my blacknecks!!!!:D

Nearly all the baby garters readily take pinky without any help, I cut them into 3 strips while they are still partly frozen.

Funny thing is, they seem to like the tilapia even better when it is covered in pinky blood!

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/garter/pp1.jpg

[Jack Neary]

Shannon,
My challenge with my baby and juvenile Garter's is they seem only motivated to eat things that are moving, such as both worms and minnows/guppies.
Wayne provided me with a great tip a while ago on getting all my garter's to eat pinkies by putting the cut-up (or whole pinky with my adult garter's) in a small water bowl with the minnows. I was amazed how it fooled all my garter's into eating the pinkies thinking they were eating minnows! Yes! (Thanks, Wayne!!!!)
However,.... even while I try scenting try pinkies with worms and mixing them together on a dish for my garter's to eat. My garter's will come and most of the time stare at the worm that's moving and eat only the moving worms, avoiding the non-moving cut-up pinkies. ARGGHHH!
So, basically, my current challenge is trying to feed pinkies mixed with worms. If only I could buy a small dish I could put my pinky parts on that would vibrate! That would solve my dilema for sure! LOL
Any advice?
Jack

[Lori P]

Jack, lol, they do make a vibrating feeder!!! But I'm not sure it would work with snakes... it's marketed for lizards that need to see their food jumping around... wonder if the vibration would put a snake off tho??

[infernalis]

They will accept the pinky quicker if you dangle it off tongs or hemostats in front of them.

That little red sided I just shook that mess in front of him, and boom, he hits it.